Should I Give Up on Harvard? (and the Ivy Leagues in general?)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

<p>Okay... I really terribly want to get into Harvard, or at least an Ivy League, or worst case scenario, a really well known excellent school like Duke. But still... my main goal is Harvard, and I've been practically killing myself to get in. I hear some people who have really amazing grades and extracurriculars... makes me feel like a failure. If I give up, I'm going to stop working so hard, because, as I've said... it's killing me.</p>

<p>I go to one of the best schools in NYC. Not the best of the best (Townsend, specialized...), but it's still has a reputation for being one of the best.</p>

<p>Also... my school is an hour and fifteen minutes away by public transit. I'm not driven to school. I don't think colleges consider that, but it's really torture for me.</p>

<p>I'm a first generation on my dad's side. My parents are divorced, my mom's out of work, and my dad doesn't make much money, and my mom didn't make much to begin with. I THINK they consider stuff like this.</p>

<p>Freshman Year: I was in my school's Honors + Humanities program. I didn't take school really seriously... so this year is pretty cruddy. We have two semesters, so I'll be putting both grades.</p>

<p>Algebra: 75 (I know ><...)/86
Weight Training: 80 (not averaged. Do they really look at this? O_o I see it on my transcript.)/80
English Honors: 90 (94.5 with Honors credit)/93 (97.65)
Art History/Humanities Honors: 80 (84 with Honors credit)/85 (89.25)
Global History Honors: 80 (84)/92 (96.6)
Living Environment (pretty much, Biology with extra stuff) Honors: 75 (78.5)/88 (92.4)
Latin Honors: 90 (94.5)/89 (93.45)</p>

<p>So, cruddy grades, but kind of an upward trend, no? No clubs, bleh. And my Regents? Terrible...</p>

<p>Algebra: 79
Living Environment: 85</p>

<p>Then, Sophomore year. The year I really started working. However, they got rid of Honors from the whole school. The only way to get Honors was to get an 85 or above average. This applied to all subjects. This year, I transferred out of Humanities and into the Art Program, because creating art is fun. Learning the history of art? Not so much.</p>

<p>College Now English: 93 (97.65) (one semester only.)
College Now Math: Pass. (it's not averaged, and it's a pass or fail grade. :o)
Latin: 92 (96.6)/95 (99.75)
Computer Art: 90 (94.5)/94 (98.7)
Geometry: 84/98 (102.9)
English: 94 (98.7)/99 (103.95)
Weight Training: 95/95
Earth Science: 95 (99.75)/97 (101.85)
Global History: 90 (94.5)/98 (102.9)</p>

<p>So, major grade improvement, eh? Regents, however...</p>

<p>Global: 88
Geometry: 86
Earth Science: 85 D:</p>

<p>PSAT: Critical Reading: 50. Math: 54. Writing: 51. I know it's kind of average, but I plan on studying my butt off this summer for the real SAT ._.</p>

<p>Extracurriculars:</p>

<p>-Latin Club (not sure if I'll get credit for it, apparently it never got officially recognized as a club. We found this out on the last day.)
-School's Literary and Art Magazine
-School Newspaper
-Green Club
-Key Club (was also awarded one of the top 50 members.)</p>

<p>I had some other clubs I was in shortly, but quit them. I may or may not get credit for them, so they won't be listed.</p>

<p>Getting a recommendation from my English teacher (she actually just e-mailed me). I plan on getting other recommendations soon.</p>

<p>This summer, I plan on hopefully getting a volunteer job in Poland.</p>

<p>Next Year:</p>

<p>I'm going to take some SAT 2s. Don't know which yet. My schedule involves me waking up at 4:50 AM and coming home at around 6 PM. Classes:</p>

<p>-Leadership
-Latin
-Freshman Art Class (required as an art major, never got to take it)
-Advanced Digital Art (continuation of Computer Art, I don't think it's really advanced or AP, it's just called that.)
-Advanced Algebra 2/Trig with Pre-Calc. If I'm in the top 100, I can move onto AB/BC/AP Calc in Senior year.
-AP English
-Weight Training yay~
-Chemistry. I need to do well in this if I want to move on to AP Bio Senior year. However, the Chem teachers here have a reputation for failing many students with high averages. I may drop this class, I don't want it dropping my GPA. I plan on teaching myself some Chem this summer, just to be on the safe side.
-AP US History
-Government</p>

<p>Extracurriculars? So far, I know I'm going to be President/Editor In Chief of the school's literary and art magazine. Probably will have some other clubs... I want to run for President of Latin Club. People at Key Club encouraged me to be their Webmaster, so I may just run for that in Key Club. Being in Leadership, I have a chance at possibly being Senior Council President Senior year, no guarantee. Either way, I still could be Vice Pres or something. I didn't meet the requirements for Arista Junior year, but my grades now made me meet it, so if I keep my grades up I will be in it Senior year. Archon... probably not, unless I get major volunteer hours in. I'm going to ask for lots of recommendations, so...</p>

<p>What do you think? Do I stand a chance at all? Should I just stop working so hard? It's really killing me... though, one little thing. I know Harvard sometimes looks for people who are extremely talented in one area. Everyone tells me I'm a really amazing writer... my English teacher this year, who passed me with a 99, has a reputation of failing everyone. She told me I was one of the best students she's ever had, and that I have such a unique outlook on life. (and she's the one giving me the recommendation. This is going to be good! Heheh!) So, when I write my essay... maybe Harvard will see that.</p>

<p>I'm also applying for scholarships... so if I get any, I guess that'll help.</p>

<p>What do you think, guys? :/...</p>

2

<p>Being first-generation does help (but what do you mean by on your dad’s side…?) And the upward trend in grades is good. However, you’re still gonna need EXTREMELY strong SAT I/II scores to make up for your grades/average EC’s. And you’d better write some good essays- as in the type that make the angels weep tears of milk and honey. Based on the info you’ve given, I trust that you are capable of doing that. I’m not going to tell you to give up, just know that you will have to work really hard between now and senior year.</p>

3

<p>Your transcript doesn’t look that bad, and neither do your ECs. That said, you have a 150-something PSAT? Which translates into a 1500-something SAT? Uh, even an improvement of 400 points will have you well below the 25th percentile for Harvard. If studying very hard for the SAT pays off for you, you may have a shot, but that seems to be the major sticking point.</p>

<p>Also, nowhere in your application should you ask for pity because of your commute, especially especially if you’re prone to using words like “torture.” You probably should not mention it at all. Yeah, there are kids who have much shorter commutes, and that’s lovely for them. But one deals. (I’m not speaking as someone who never had a suck commute: in high school my round-trip was an hour longer than yours, by school bus.)</p>

<p>Another key, besides the scores, is what your teachers and counselors think of you. Do they like you? Do they have opinions on your chances? They’re probably more likely to make accurate predictions than we are. (Besides the English teacher.) If you’re that wonderful a writer, that will also definitely help!</p>

4

<p>@ojodeltigre: My mom was born here… her dad’s parents weren’t from here, though. (not too sure on this) My mom’s mom’s family has been here since colonial times… I thought first gen meant one of your parents being from another country… does it mean both? >< If it does I guess I’m not a first gen x_x I am working very hard… so hard, my family’s mad at me for it ><</p>

<p>@exultationsy: What does give me a bit of hope is that, in 7th grade, I studied A LITTLE BIT for the SHSATs (I was lazy, lol). A majority of my class got in the 300s. I had the second highest grade in the class, and was only 9 points off from actually getting in to a specialized high school. Not that colleges would care, but this kind of gives me hope that, if I study, I’ll do good. :)</p>

<p>And okay, I won’t ask for pity. I feel really bad for you though, no joke. I heard that one kid in my school had like a three hour trip e_e…</p>

<p>I wouldn’t say a majority of my Freshman teachers liked me or disliked me (well, maybe my Science teacher hated me, but when raised my grades she started being nice to me and I’m pretty sure she stopped hating me. I talked to her this year, she was really nice to me, and was willing to recommend me for AP Bio.) Sophomore year, my Latin teacher /may/ like me. I was the only one participating in her class, and I was active in Latin club. My art teacher may like me, as I was always helpful to her. My Geometry teacher LOVES me. She tells me I’m one of her greatest success stories. I once told her I wanted to get into Harvard, but felt I wouldn’t get in. She said, “You may be surprised.” and didn’t seem to doubt I would get in. My English teacher seems to love me after she bragged about me (seriously, she was all "I wouldn’t be surprised if you found the cure for cancer.’ and stuff like that (and her mother just died of cancer…) She also found it hard to believe how lazy I was Freshman year, after being such a wonderful student this year.) Gym teacher probably has no opinion on me, lol. My Science teacher loved everyone, he’s probably the most kindest person I’ve met in my life. He sees the good things despite the bad, and I got 75s on many of his tests. When Regents came, he said “I’m sure you’ll get a 99!” and I felt such guilt because I was convinced I’d fail XD And my Social Studies teacher, I think she liked me, but she retired. I asked her for a recommendation for college, but she just smiled and said there’ll be other teachers to write me one, so… and there’s the literary and art magazine adviser (I’m going to be President of that next year, so I know her.) She loves me and thinks I’m smart… when I told her my grades, she winced a little and said I could /maybe/ get in but I have to try harder… but I shouldn’t give up.</p>

<p>Thanks for the feedback guys :slight_smile: Some people have made me want to give up, this is encouraging. I’ll try to work hard on my SATs/SAT IIs.</p>

<p>I don’t know if this helps any, but my mom never finished college, while my dad went to the best University in his country. (IRONY MUCH?) However, unfortunately, he did nothing with it…</p>

5

<p>Oh wow! The SHSAT does bode well. Come back maybe when you’ve gotten that up? As your teachers have told you, your numbers are what’s most weighing against you. </p>

<p>Aside that began as a parenthesis then got ludicrously long not to have its own paragraph: And you seem more articulate than a lot of the people who insist that they’re good writers… and so thatt will be a help on their application. That’s a joke, of course, but most chance posts are honestly pretty boring. I read most of your posts all the way through, rather than skimming large chunks. E.g. your teacher paragraph: that’s not great writing, nor are you intending it to be, but usually on this forum I hit a paragraph that long and the eyes, they glaze over, and suddenly I’m on the next paragraph, or even the next post. Something about your writing tends to hold my attention. This supports two conclusions: you will indeed have good essays. It’s your numbers holding you back.</p>

<p>You also sound like you’ll have wonderful recommendations, which is quite an asset among, I feel like anecdotally, an applicant pool full of a lot of bright kids who have never asked a teacher an interesting question in their life, and have recommendations that reflect that fact. (That was a monstrously be-clause-d sentence, sorry.) From what you’ve listed, I’d go for geometry and English, if you have them again in your junior or senior years. You may meet new teachers, though. (But that would be a good breadth of subjects to cover!)</p>

<p>A few more thoughts: I might apply to Princeton, since they recalculate GPA sans freshman year. I think you have a good shot *if you get a much better SAT, and you get slightly higher grades as a junior than as a sophomore.<a href=“I’m%20thinking%2095s,%20not%2093s.”>/i</a> And my commute was pretty terrible, but I didn’t realize it at the time, since I just thought that was the way things were. Didn’t occur to me that it was particularly abnormal. But it has made college much better, since I got here and boy do I appreciate being able to get anywhere on campus (or see my friends!) whenever I want, with not that much lag time!</p>

6

<p>If your 150 PSAT translates to a 1500 SAT, I wouldn’t apply because it’s too low of a score. You need to get that way way way higher.</p>

7

<p>I am going to say something that may sound mean, but it isn’t:</p>

<p>As things stand, you have no chance whatsoever. It doesn’t have anything to do with your grades or your test scores. (Well, maybe a little to do with them, not much.) What’s completely off is your whole attitude. If the only thing that is making you work hard in school is your desire to get into a name-brand college, and you would stop working hard if you didn’t have a chance to do that . . . well, the name-brand colleges are desperately trying to avoid accepting people like you. They do wind up accepting a few of them, but usually it’s only people whose grades, test scores, and b.s. abilities are so good that they can successfully impersonate a disinterested genius. I don’t think you are going to come across that way.</p>

<p>You need to be working for yourself, not for Harvard (or Dartmouth, or Duke, or anything like that). The best way to qualify for Harvard is to be the kind of person who needs to learn as much as possible about a few things, and to learn it well, because there are things you care about so deeply that you just have to understand them thoroughly, and because your personality doesn’t give you any other choice. And also to show the capacity to transfer that passion and those skills to other fields, and a desire to go out into the world and to do things with what you know.</p>

<p>Make yourself into that kind of person, and I promise you your grades will improve, and maybe you will qualify as a decent applicant for a top college, although perhaps always a long-shot. More importantly, though, if you make yourself into that kind of person you will be much, much, much better off even if you don’t wind up getting accepted at some super-selective college. That attitude, and those skills, will make you a great student anywhere, and give you the tools to succeed coming out of any college. It won’t matter whether you went to Harvard or SUNY West Podunk. And if you don’t have that attitude and those skills, Harvard would be a waste of your time, and you a waste of its faculty’s time.</p>

8

<p>You’re really going to have to improve your stats to have any chance at the Ivies. An SAT of 2300+ puts you in the game.</p>

9

<p>Thanks for that post JHS, that was like, amazing advice that I wouldn’t find otherwise. Good thing I came across this thread! </p>

<p>Anyways, I’m just like you, brinazarski. If you take a chance to look at my post, you’d find out that I don’t have that much of a chance either. But in the end, none of those matter - I’d rather fail at trying to get to Harvard than not try at all. Besides, if you don’t want Harvard (or any other Ivies, for that matter) so badly that you don’t work yourself to your limits, then you wouldn’t really fit in Harvard, would you? In the end, it’s not a question that you can ask others but it’s one that you must ask yourself: do YOU have the will and passion it takes to get into such a place?</p>

<p>All that being said, just never give up. It doesn’t matter what your odds are, just never give up in what you dream about. Because even if you don’t reach Harvard, you will at least land among the stars…</p>

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<p>@DwightEisenhower and slipper1234: I know my PSAT is really low. I’m going to study. This grade does not guarantee that i will get the EXACT same score when I take the real thing. I took a SAT math prep course at my school (I felt it didn’t help me at all, but), and by the end my math score increased 100 points. Like I said, I felt the course didn’t help (I think my actual math class was what helped), but if I study there is a possibility my score might increase.</p>

<p>Also, I plan on studying for the ACT and taking it as well. I got a 21 on a practice (which I was really ashamed of…), but I have a lot of studying to do this summer. I am not worried about my PSAT/SAT/ACT scores, because that can be fixed.</p>

<p>@ JHS: The reason I want to get into an Ivy League is because it might just help me in life. The way I see it, my mom didn’t graduate from college and now she is struggling. The better college you get into, the more educated you seem, not to mention you can get a better education. Also, I want to become a medical researcher someday, and when I graduate from whatever college I do, I want to get into the best med school, and I don’t know what the best med school is because, in my opinion, it’s not the time to do my research on that yet. I have MANY, MANY other excellent colleges in mind. A lot have e-mailed me (not that they care, probably just random e-mails that everyone’s getting…), and when they do, I do a little research, read reviews, look at the GPAs of the kids who got in. If I like it, I add it to my list. If not, then oh well. But anyways, I want to be a medical researcher someday, and I- I guess like many other people- want to make a change in this world. I want to find the cure for things, like cancer, HIV, Autism, Schizophrenia, whatever needs curing. I know, there are many people in that field who haven’t found anything, but you know what, you never know unless you try, and that is why I want to go into that field (and the “you never know until you try” has made me stronger… I used to give up very easily, now I’m not like that). I am imaginative, and I think of things a little differently, so maybe, with my way of thinking, I could help this world. Sorry for the cheeziness, but that’s my little (or lengthy…) explanation. I AM working for myself, I’m doing this for me, because if I get into an Ivy I will be proud of me doing doing all I’ve done, if I DON’T get into an Ivy I may cry a little, but I’ll move on and say it’s not the end, and give myself a little pat on the back and say I did my best, that’s all that matters. Even at the beginning of Sophomore year, my goal was to get a 100 in everything. Yeah, I didn’t achieve that goal, but I’ve never worked so hard in my life, nor did I think I COULD. I never thought I could really become President of a club, or have my math teacher, who hated me, begging me to be on her Math Team, I cried after the AP English test because I thought I didn’t get in, but I did. I’m proud of how far I’ve come, because at least I actually TRIED, and I didn’t meet all my goals but I have succeeded in some areas. “The best way to qualify for Harvard is to be the kind of person who needs to learn as much as possible about a few things, and to learn it well,” That is how I am. I HATE how school has me taking so many subjects, if I were only focused on one my grades would likely be well above a hundred. Give me one subject, and I will do excellent. Give me ten, and I’ll try my best while feeling overwhelmed. But when it comes to me, if I want to do my best then you will get it from me.</p>

<p>@secondwind95: “I’d rather fail at trying to get to Harvard than not try at all.” YES YES YES! XD That’s me, lol. Sometimes I hate it when people tell me I can’t get in, and I hate it when I want to give up, but I really, REALLY just want to give up sometimes. It’s so much wooooorrrrrrkkk! But I agree with your whole post… you don’t give up, either. <3 Who knows, maybe we’ll see each other in Harvard someday? ;D Heheh!</p>

11

<p>I’ll never understand why people try so hard when they just aren’t Harvard/top-tier-college caliber students. Sure you can work hard, but a 155 PSAT just shows a general lack of knowledge that you’ll need to succeed at a top tier school. This isn’t meant to be condescending, just realistic. I think checking out some smaller liberal arts schools in your area would be your best bet, New York has plenty of them.</p>

12

<p>So what you’re all saying is, just because my PSAT is low, if I somehow get a perfect score on the real SAT and ACT, I have absolutely no chance at Harvard?</p>

<p>I keep saying… I’m going to study. I will improve. That PSAT grade is not set in stone.</p>

<p>If I get a 1500 on the real SAT three times, okay, then you can say I have no chance at anything.</p>

<p>But I was a Sophomore when I took the PSAT, I was not a Junior, I was not prepared, I had no clue what to expect. I say that it’s a predictor of what I will get if I don’t practice.</p>

<p>By the way… since I’m also studying for the ACT this summer, if I magically get a 32 (not to be pessimistic, but I probably won’t. Stupid Science part…), THEN do I have a chance at the Ivy Leagues? And what particular SAT grade would give me the /slightest/ chance at an Ivy League? 1900? 2000?</p>

<p>I mean, it’s almost like saying, a Kindergartener has low grades, so she obviously won’t get into Harvard when she’s in high school. (okay, a bit of an exaggeration, but you get my point.)</p>

<p>I had a lot of trouble reading and writing in first grade and I was behind, I ended up finishing the first grade by winning first place in all three spelling bees. I don’t think you can always predict… Heck, I could have PERFECT ACT/SAT scores, perfect grades, extracurriculars, and the Ivy Leagues might not want me.</p>

13

<p>For comfort, aim for a 34 ACT, and 2200 SAT if you have your heart set on top Ivies. You might at least make the first cut.</p>

14

<p>Stop just thinking about Harvard ! There are many excellent schools out there . You have to be head and shoulders above your peers to think seriously about going there . People fall in love with the idea of attending H ,but once you get there ,you still have to work hard . Maybe H isn’t the best fit . It’s what you do with the college experience that matters . One of my 3 sons attends a non-Ivy .His professors are very impressed with him and were able to get him a co-op paying almost 800 a week (he took a semester off school ) . He currently has almost 50 % in merit aid …it’s harder to be noticed at H ,because everybody is outstanding</p>

15

<p>um…did you really want to get in to harvard? if you reallly wanted to, then you would have studied your butt off for grades and your grades wouldn’t be like this (they’re not bad for an average high school student, but compare to others who are apllying for Harvard, they kinda are). EC’s are certainly in the low range for Harvard…if you really want a chance for any Ivies, go get a 2350+ on SAT (still…even if you get a 2400, your grades would pull you down and your EC’s aren’t good enough). i would recommend you to be more realistic and stop thinking about these prestigious schools (there are still many great colleges beside them).</p>

16

<p>I think you’re too caught up with picking schools for the name instead of the environment, for where you know you’ll thrive. Some “top tier college caliber” students were very happy at “some smaller liberal arts schools” and elsewhere. Years from now, when you graduate, your career success and personal happiness will have more to do with your performance in college and in the workplace than where you went for undergrad. </p>

<p>I have a feeling that the image of Harvard you have right now as a rising junior has little to do with Harvard as it really is, and you may not be as happy there as you envision you’ll be.</p>

17

<p>Although some of my circumstances are much different that yours I am in somewhat of a similar situation. To be honest, I know I’m not getting into any ivy league, but I am applying anyways because it makes me feel better. If I do then I seriously am very lucky, and my chances are lottery shots. However, each application is reviewed holistically. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t waste my time on ivies if I were you, I would pick out other good schools out there. Even NYU and schools like that are insanely difficult to get into. It would be better to exert your energy into schools are more feasible into your range. That is how I think of it, there is always graduate school for ivy!</p>

18

<p>Well, think about it this way. What makes you special out of all of those applicants? What makes YOU the one that stands out? Everybody there has the will it takes. Everybody there has the grades, extracurriculars, SAT scores. Mostly everyone there has the passion it takes to achieve something great. They’ve all worked for years upon years and have dreamed of going to Harvard, just like you. </p>

<p>They’ve put in so much to get in Harvard, and even though they know the probabilities are slim, they can’t afford to let their years of preparation go to waste. </p>

<p>What makes YOU rise above all of those people? Do you have something that they do not possess? </p>

<p>This is probably overgeneralized, but I think a good percentage of people attending Harvard is working themselves to their limits to achieve their vision of a better world. Simply saying that you have the vision for a better world won’t impress the admissions officer. </p>

<p>In the end, you can’t impress someone there by saying that you have the will it takes, the desire to succeed, the passion that burns within your heart, etc. You can’t impress them by saying that your grades are good, your extracurriculars are nice as well, because almost EVERYBODY who applies to the Ivies have all of those things. You need to find something inside of yourself that almost nobody else has, something that is only found within you. </p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to make you feel bad since everything I say applies to me as well. But you’ll always have to look from Harvard’s perspective, because they just somehow have to choose a select few among the thousands of applications they receive every year.</p>

19

<p>-a few weeks later-</p>

<p>So. I got a volunteer job here in Poland, I work about three hours a day, five days a week. (I wanted to work longer, but they want me to enjoy my summer.) This is a place that focuses on helping the environment, as well as helping to educate Poland’s youth. For the most part, I’ve been doing basic office work- stapling, stamping, blablabla.</p>

<p>I did mention to them at one point that I knew how to draw (they had a scrapbook they wanted me to design, and asked if I had any artistic talent.) Now, they have me illustrating their book instead of office work. My art’s going to be published! :O</p>

<p>I’m sure as heck no Leonardo DaVinci, but I’m curious, do you think the fact they’re publishing my art in a book will help me any? (not to mention, I’m getting service credit, boo-ya) I mean, they didn’t even know what my art looked like before they started, I think they were just desperate and I happened to be there and they took a chance.</p>

20

<p>brinazarki… quite an interesting thread you have here. </p>

<p>Pursue your passions, show drive, ambition in what you do, and stop wasting time dwelling on the small, unimportant parts of your “life.” What I mean is, when you apply to college, they will be looking at the ‘big picture.’ They won’t reject you for a B- in AP calculus, or a 1900 on your SATs. They will reject you for lack of effort, drive, and ambition.</p>

<p>A 150 on your psat by all means is an average score. To be straight up with you, your an average candidate at average schools. Why? Because your lack of effort. If you push yourself like your doing in ‘Poland’ or ‘English Class’ you will be getting top notch scores and be doing amazing activities both in and outside of school. And this is exactly what Harvard, or any top 20 school, looks for.</p>

<p>Start researching schools that have great medical programs besides just ‘Harvard.’ Its clear that your going for the name, and you naturally assume that you’d be getting a better education because it’s /harvard/. Yet, if you can’t stand the heat of your high school, you will literally end up either A. being rejected B. dropping out C. getting very low scores. It’s not all a ‘drawing’ game at top tiered schools – in fact, its not like this in almost ANY college you attend. Start working hard, efficiently, and you will find out in time what schools are available for YOU.</p>