<p>@parent2noles: are you serious? UF with its med school ranked 48 in the country, and with the 335 million they produce in research is a toss up when comparing it to FSU’s unranked med school, yet Criminology, which is 9 at FSU and 14 at UF makes FSU kill UF? That is ridiculous. For medicine, UF is better. I thought that was common knowledge… USF is better than FSU for medicine, and UF is better than USF, so how is FSU better than UF? It makes no sense… According to WSJ, UF is 9th in the country for job recruiting. Other good schools like Penn State and GT were on the list. FSU wasn’t there. According to the ARWU, FSU is nothing compared to UF. Where are the FSU physicists at CERN? Biotech transfer to the marketplace is 5th in the country at UF. Our biological engineering program is ranked 3rd in the country. How in the world is FSU tied for biology? According to who?? You?? Present recent facts to back up your claims that FSU is as good as UF for the sciences and medicine. UF has one of the best statistics programs in the country. Our comp sci program is 39th in the country. Honestly, UF is the best public university in the state. UCF gas a better engineering school than FSU, and their medical school is comparable (USFs med school is better) so honestly, I would recommend engineers and pre-med students to go to even UCF or USF over FSU.</p>
<p>[nsf.gov</a> - NCSES Academic Institutional Profiles (2006 Institution rankings) - US National Science Foundation (NSF)](<a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/profiles/ranking.cfm]nsf.gov”>404 Page Not Found | NCSES | NSF)</p>
<p>According to this ranking from the NSF, which you love to cite, UF is better… so what else do you have? That mag lab thing? Again, UF’s physicists are more nationally known. And it was a competition. If that mattered, I guess that would make UF better than Cornell (since they beat them in a chemical engineering competition), and the #1 school in the country since UF won first place in a national competition for comp sci (UCF finished 2nd, and GT was 3rd). That mag lab is good, but it doesn’t make FSU better for physics. All of my friends majoring in physics are at UF. And they are students who scored over 2200 on the SAT. I can assure you FSU does not attract that caliber of students for physics.</p>
<p>Your emphasis of rankings alone to the is not an accurate way of judging complex entities such as universities. You miss the forest for the trees, so to speak. Typical of many UF fans who presume because UF has a mature med school they have the best university in the state. Your buddies in physics got sold a bill of goods if they used a similar criterion to select Hogtown U over Florida State for physics.</p>
<p>Let’s look at total NSF investment, for example. You show figures from 2006 - only; but you fail to simply add the year-to-year numbers up. Had you read my post you’d have seen I cite total NSF investment, not a one-year bump.</p>
<p>Since I am overseas I cannot download the spreadsheet to add up the numbers for historic and current awards, but you can - from this website:</p>
<p>FSU:
<a href=“http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/piSearch.do?PIFirstName=&PICountry=&Search=Search&PIZip=&d-49653-e=1&PILastName=&PIInstitution=Florida+State+University&Restriction=0&SearchType=piSearch&page=1&6578706f7274=1&QueryText=&PIState=[/url]”>http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/piSearch.do?PIFirstName=&PICountry=&Search=Search&PIZip=&d-49653-e=1&PILastName=&PIInstitution=Florida+State+University&Restriction=0&SearchType=piSearch&page=1&6578706f7274=1&QueryText=&PIState=</a></p>
<p>UFl:
[NSF</a> - Award Search - Awardee Information](<a href=“http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/piSearch.do?SearchType=piSearch&page=1&QueryText=&PIFirstName=&PILastName=&PIInstitution=university+of+florida&PIState=&PIZip=&PICountry=&Restriction=0&Search=Search#results]NSF”>http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/piSearch.do?SearchType=piSearch&page=1&QueryText=&PIFirstName=&PILastName=&PIInstitution=university+of+florida&PIState=&PIZip=&PICountry=&Restriction=0&Search=Search#results)</p>
<p>Get the data as a spreadsheet and add up the total historic and current awards. Let me know what figures you get. I know how the numbers go, so fudging this won’t work. The total NSF investment in FSU is substantially greater than that of UF. Now add to the FSU figure $160,000,000 for the five-year NSF renewal of the Magnet Lab - the only National Lab in Florida (It’s not in Gainesville, btw - it’s in Tallahassee). See what I mean? I am sure you do!</p>
<p>I guess that addresses NSF figures - and with much more current data than 2006. :)</p>
<p>About med schools, while you seem to think med research monies are the end-all of a university I beg to differ. The goal of a med school is training medical doctors. Research is great, but Job 1 is educating doctors. I am familiar with this process at the current time and I stack the doctors coming out of FSU Med with UF Med trained docs. Here is an article which describes what I mean:</p>
<p>[Sarasota</a> campus a proving ground for Florida’s new med-school model | HeraldTribune.com](<a href=“http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20100913/ARTICLE/9131051]Sarasota”>http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20100913/ARTICLE/9131051)</p>
<p>This article aptly describes the kind of doctors FSU med is graduating. This kind of result competes very effectively with UF Med docs. You should be glad, since a fair number of UF grads compete to enter FSU Med. More FSU grads, I should point out the last time I counted.</p>
<p>The FSU physicists at CERN working on the Higgs Boson are [here.[/url</a>] Tell me how UF physicists lead the CERN in figuring out the Higgs Boson…right - they don’t.</p>
<p>As for other tangible proof FSU is superior to UF in physics education we have the FSU physics PhD who in 2010 was determined to have written the best nuclear physics dissertation in the U.S.: </p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://gradschool.fsu.edu/News-Recognitions/In-the-News/Former-Student-Has-Nation-s-Top-Dissertation-in-Nuclear-Physics]Former”>http://gradschool.fsu.edu/News-Recognitions/In-the-News/Former-Student-Has-Nation-s-Top-Dissertation-in-Nuclear-Physics]Former</a> Student Has Nation’s Top Dissertation in Nuclear Physics](<a href=“http://news.fsu.edu/Watch-and-Listen/Radio-Stories/FSU-scientists-aid-in-discovery-of-Higgs-Boson]here.[/url”>FSU scientists aid in discovery of Higgs Boson - Florida State University News)</p>
<p>As for stats, if we believe US News UF has #27 and FSU #40. So what? What constitutes the difference in a grad program US News of 13 points? In Criminology virtually any grad with a crim degree knows of FSU’s program, especially seminal works concerning use of firearms. UF’s claim to Criminology fame is that it’s program gets confused with FSU’s program in the minds of external raters; a halo effect so to speak. Much tougher to explain a difference in Statistics between these schools. I guess I should point out FSU Crim was rated #1 in the US in 2011 for scholarly productivity, not UF. </p>
<p>Let’s look at a ratings favorite of mine which illustrates my points very effectively. Everyone knows US News ratings are designed first and foremost to sell magazines. The authors vary the formula from year to year to keep controversy alive. Few if any credible academics cite US News for anything except to recruit freshmen. So, let’s compare FSU vs UF in Political Science - a very popular major at both schools:</p>
<p>US News rating - grad program:
FSU - 39
UF - 49</p>
<p>Now, let’s look at some real academic research prepared by Simon Hix of the London School of Economics on the quality of Poly Sci programs from 1998-2002:</p>
<p>FSU - 24 (in the world)
UF - 153 (in the world)</p>
<p>HUGE difference. FSU kills UF here, too. But you would not know this by reading US News.</p>
<p>UF is a good school. My father got a grad degree from there. But better than Florida State? No. Not like you think. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. Caveat emptor.</p>
<p>Even in sports both are extremely successful - FSU 5th in Director’s Cup; UF got 2nd this year. Of course, FSU has been beating UF like a drum in football lately. :)</p>
<p>Congrats. You have one student who did extremely well. Like I said, UF had 3 comp sci students who won 1st in the country in a national comp sci competition. Does this make them #1? No.</p>
<p>UF med school students have higher stats than FSU ones. It’s fact. It’s ridiculous to get one article that says that FSU is doing well and then claim it is better than UF for medicine. Yeah, we have the older medical school? Your point? We’re better, and will continue to be better at medicine. Again, for medicine, UF, Miami, and USF are best. FSU cannot compare; sorry. </p>
<p>And where are your sources to claim that FSU is that much better than UF for criminology. With that logic, I can say that UF destroys FSU in medicine because all of the doctors I know have told me that UF and Miami are medicine followed by USF. FSU is never mentioned for medicine. </p>
<p>According to this by the NSF, UF is 17 and FSU is 90 in regards to total R&D expenditures. UF wins yet again. </p>
<p>This is why the smarter students in school prefer UF over FSU. FSU isn’t bad, but to say it’s better than UF would mean that you are deluding yourself.</p>
<p>are best for medicine*</p>
<p>Sorry my link didn’t post: [US</a> NSF - Academic Institutional Profiles](<a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/profiles/data/ess_ranking.cfm]US”>404 Page Not Found | NCSES | NSF)</p>
<p>GeFigGator: “According to WSJ, UF is 9th in the country for job recruiting. Other good schools like Penn State and GT were on the list. FSU wasn’t there”</p>
<p>This same list has Arizona State ranked higher than MIT, Carnegie-Mellon, Cornell and UC Berkeley.</p>
<p>GeFigGator: “This is why the smarter students in school prefer UF over FSU”</p>
<p>The smartest students in which school? Sante Fe CC? :)</p>
<p>GeFigGator: “And they are students who scored over 2200 on the SAT. I can assure you FSU does not attract that caliber of students for physics.”</p>
<p>Now you are just grasping for random strands of spaghetti to throw at the wall. Unless you have access to highly privileged information regarding the Physics departments at both UF and FSU simultaneously ( welcome to the board Mr. Brogan!) this is your own personal, wild speculation.</p>
<p>The list favored public schools. Therefore, FSU has no excuse. But still FSU is better IMO for my major :), and I don’t think that 2200 thing applies. I got a 2230 and I’m at FSU for summer. Although I kind of want to transfer OOS</p>
<p>GeFigGator: “According to this by the NSF, UF is 17 and FSU is 90 in regards to total R&D expenditures. UF wins yet again.”</p>
<p>Are you sure you are talking about the same thing that P2N was? He was talking about NSF specific funding. The link, while sourced from the NSF, refers to total R&D expenditures (not just NSF-funded expenditures). </p>
<p>P2N knows more about this than I, but my understanding is that UF has figured out a way to to pad their R&D expenditures with agriculture programs that they are only indirectly involved with. If you take this out, the difference between the two schools is far less than the official numbers suggest.</p>
<p>physics2016yea: "The list favored public schools. Therefore, FSU has no excuse. "</p>
<p>OK, so Arizona State is still ranked higher than UMich, UC Berkely, UCLA, University of Wisconsin and the University of Virginia.</p>
<p>but it is in regards to publics that had the best job recruits. Rankings don’t correlate as much in regards to career services and job placement. gt, tamu, uf, Penn state are known for this. all are fine schools. I like FSUs campus and student life more than ufs, but I think uf is better for most things. plus i hate the gators so i wouldn’t go even though it’s better academically</p>
<p>I’m so tired of UF students.</p>
<p>
Think about it this way: 1 recent national award for best **dissertation<a href=“psst%20-%20a%20dissertation%20is%20the%20really,%20really,%20really%20big%20term%20paper%20for%20%22ultimate%22%20graduate%20students,%20not%20an%20undergrad%20competition%20and%20which%20is%20scrutinized%20by%20peers%20for%20the%20slightest%20flaw;%20getting%20a%20PhD%20is%20a%20lifetime%20work”>/B</a> plus having the only national lab in the state equals a huge educational commitment. Plus, this student started as a freshman at FSU. This encompasses the entire undergraduate research experience. This event speaks volumes about what can happen for students at Florida State.</p>
<p>
Don’t quite get the med school thing, right? EVERYONE who gets in a U.S. allopathic college of medicine is a stellar academic student. Med students receive a huge societal investment and are carefully screened at all levels you can imagine. Getting a 30 MCAT or a 32 does not equate to being a better doctor. The better assessment is the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 results, but that still undercuts an assessment of a doc in trying to sum up a career in a couple tests. Secondly, the MCAT and USMLE tests are not like the SAT or ACT, you don’t take them over and over until you get a good score. You take them ONCE if you really want a chance at medical admission. This being said, FSU Med, even after a short time has med grads scoring above the national medical school average. This is HUGE. Further, FSU Med takes more non-traditional med students who will serve in medically underserved areas. Think about that - trying to find students who have qualifying scores and can get through med school, so they can go back to Two Egg, FL as the local MD. This means they are doing a great job educating docs as evidenced by this visit: [Home</a> - FSU College of Medicine](<a href=“http://www.med.fsu.edu/?fuseaction=news.viewArticle&newsID=60]Home”>http://www.med.fsu.edu/?fuseaction=news.viewArticle&newsID=60)</p>
<p>The CEO of the AAMC visits FSU Med within its first few years. It took UF med decades to win a visit from the CEO of the AAMC. My D1 has gained more real experience as an FSU M3 than many UF MDs, due to the way the school operates. M3s at FSU Med don’t compete with M4s and residents for experience. They study at working hospitals in Sarasota, Orlando, Tallahassee, Pensacola and elsewhere. At UF Med you’re pretty much stuck in Gainesville at a similar educational level, fighting with other M3s, M4s and residents to gain experience. Not easy. Not as much experience. Like in sports, reps count in building skills in medicine.</p>
<p>
Start here:
Source: [Research</a> Brought To Life : College Of Criminology & Criminal Justice : Florida State University](<a href=“http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/]Research”>http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/)</p>
<p>Even US News gets the ranking order correct: FSU - 7; UF - 12. FSU Crim is one of the oldest Criminology schools in the U.S. </p>
<p>But don’t overlook here:
Source: [College</a> News : Florida State University College of Criminology & Criminal Justice](<a href=“http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/p/news-college.php]College”>http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/p/news-college.php)</p>
<p>I already showed you where and how to calculate total NSF investment. Showing a one-year total is not an accurate depiction of total NSF investment.</p>
<p>
I don’t. Further, I think beating the gators is enough.</p>
<p>By the way - Two Egg, FL is a real place: [Two</a> Egg, Florida - Home Page](<a href=“http://www.twoeggfla.com/]Two”>http://www.twoeggfla.com/)</p>
<p>Big deal! You beat us 2 years in a row while we have killed u for years.</p>
<p>And even for law, which FSU fans claim that its where FSU shines, UF has a MUCH better law school and the president of the American Bar Association.</p>
<p>And UF is more well known nationally than FSU, and much more well regarded in Florida, which is VERY important as most graduates from both universities are from here AND stay here</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I rather doubt you were alive before 1980, so let’s go back to when the competition became strong.</p>
<p>Comparing the FSU - UF college football record since 1977:
FSU - 19 victories
UF - 17 victories
Tie - 1 ([The</a> Choke at Doak](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U14orBc2xws]The”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U14orBc2xws))</p>
<p>
I disagree with this assessment. I have worked a long time (28+ years) in a U.S. national concern and UF gets confused with FSU most of the time. Now I live and work overseas (in what would be a U.S. Fortune 50 company) and the perception is no different. Most here don’t know FSU from UF at all.</p>
<p>FSU and UF Law are both ranked about the same now, with FSU rising over the past few years. FSU grads actually a higher employment rate now, possibly due to the advantage of being in the state capital vs an isolated college town. </p>
<p>This is significant considering UF Law has been around longer, and many UF Law students have the advantage of an older relative that graduated from UF, typically in the form of a grandfather who is a UF Law alumnus, who is a well-connected senior partner at a South Florida Biglaw firm, who can give them a leg-up. Note that UF still places better at Biglaw, while FSU places better overall, for jobs that require Law degrees.</p>
<p>UF is not better known nationally. Outside of Florida, both schools are known mainly for their famous football programs. As, p2n states, people outside Florida get the two confused. I hear this often when talking to people out of state, and even read news reports where the two names are often used interchangeably.</p>