<p>I’d be happy with 18 AND a high school diploma or military ID. I think maturity comes with age and life experience/responsibility. A 18 year old high school senior has the former, but not the latter. (and it would discourage dropping out of school)</p>
<p>Romanigypseyes – those figures come from an internal document produced by a prestigious college based on data the college’s own research department collected as part of a wider survey of student social behaviors. They were collected confidentially and anonymously. </p>
<p>On 18 vs. 21 – I went to college many years ago at a university that straddled two towns. In those days, the state drinking age was 21, but cities could lower the age to as low as 18 within city limits. One town had an 18 age, the other 21. If you wanted a noisy, drunken, puky bar scene with pick-ups and bad behavior, you went to a bar in the 21 town. If you wanted a couple of drinks with friends, conversation, and maybe a game of pool, you went to the 18 town.</p>
<p>Ok… I’d still like to see it if you could point me there… I’m more interested in their wording and definitions (as well as who was surveyed) and such.</p>
<p>
That’s your perspective, what’s hers? This ties somewhat with -
which also ties somewhat with what I said about the 18 y/o living as an adult on their own.</p>
<p>The ‘context’ varies which is somewhat accounting for the perspectives of the posters here. When the 19 y/o is still living at home continuously from the time when they were little kids it’s natural I think for parents to continue to view them as ‘kids’, i.e. not really adults, since not much has changed environmentally and perhaps in their interactions but once that kid leaves home for a period of time (first year in college living away from home, out at their own apt working at a job, etc.) or permanently the context changes and generally the relationship and interactions change and the ‘kid’ is now perceived more as an ‘adult’ than otherwise. Of course, I’m speaking generally here. However, regardless of the age and whether 15, 19, 25, or 55, you still have the situation where ‘mom’ reminds you to floss or starts a lot of sentences with “you shouldn’t…” or “you should…”.</p>
<p>Like it or not, a stake has been placed in the ground as to the legal definition of a minor/adult and that stake is 18 y/o. There are other laws rules on top of that, like the drinking age of 21, the age of 35 to be the US President, and various other ages.</p>
<p>Personally, I didn’t drink alcohol at that age (even though it was legal then) and don’t now either. I’d also never serve alcohol to a legal minor (under 18) or in any way conflicting with the laws (generally not under 21 with whatever exceptions there are in various locales - easier to just say not under 21) and fortunately my kids didn’t drink under 21. It’s not a forgone conclusion that ‘everyone drinks’ and even if it were it’s not a reasonable reason for one to allow the illegal drinking. The same applies to smoking pot, taking other drugs, jumping off a bridge, etc.</p>
<p>However, given that the legal age of an adult is 18 whether one considers the person of an adult emotional age or not (and there are plenty of examples of people in their 20s, 30s, on up who aren’t), it’s that individual who’s responsible for making sure they comply with the law - not the individual’s parents. If the 18 y/o is caught doing something illegal it’s the individual who’ll be convicted as an adult - not the parents. Like it or not our 18 y/o ‘kids’ need to realize they are in fact ‘adults’ in the eyes of the law and therefore responsible for their own actions and can’t come running to mommy and daddy to fix things as they could have when they were 17 or younger. This is a conversation I think parents should have with their kids as they turn 18 so they realize the level of responsibility now on their shoulders and the mental shift they need to make as a result. It’s a mental shift the parents need to make as well. They really have no choice in this due to the law.</p>
<p>Whether or not our kids drink “out there in the world” we are absolutely responsible for what happens on our property and in our homes. </p>
<p>I have a good friend in our local police force. They get calls about underage drinking parties being held quietly, INSIDE private homes, with the parents’ full knowledge. All the “right” things are being done: car keys taken, all kids inside, nobody throwing up, cars nicely parked… No ouside signs of a party.</p>
<p>How do they find out about the parties? Calls from disgruntled girls who weren’t invited and calls from the parents of disgruntled girls who weren’t invited. The police are obligated to investigate, and are obligated to breathalize everyone in the home, and are obligated to cite every underage student who registers even the smallest amount of alcohol, and are obligated to cite the parents hosting the parties.</p>
<p>Once again, I respectfully ask where it says that a person is an adult at age 18? That certainly isn’t true under the law in many, many respects. I’m not at all suggesting that college aged kids shouldn’t be expected to drink. I personally don’t care if my 19 year old college kid drinks. But in my world, you are an adult at age 21 unless you have a fully supporting job and are not dependent on, or living with, Mom or Dad. I just don’t think you can’t have it both ways.</p>
<p>Dinner, [url=<a href=“http://www.state.gov/m/dghr/flo/c21961.htm]When”>http://www.state.gov/m/dghr/flo/c21961.htm]When</a> a Child Becomes an Adult<a href=“hope%20that%20link%20works”>/url</a>.</p>
<p>What do you mean here? Once again, I respectfully ask where it says that a person is an adult at age 18? That certainly isn’t true under the law in many, many respects.</p>
<p>In all states, a person is considered an adult at 18. They can marry. They can sign contracts. They can vote. They can join the military. The only thing I think that an 18-year old is restricted from doing by law at that age is drinking alcohol. Companies may have their own policies - like they won’t rent a car or a hotel room to an 18-year old - but a that’s a business policy, not a law.</p>
<p>My 19 year old daughter is mature enough to undertake many adult responsibilities but she is not an adult, notwithstanding the link posted by romanigypseyes. As a practical matter, she can’t enter into most legal contracts, can’t take out a personal loan, can’t rent a car, can’t sign a lease etc. The use of the term “adult” by many folks in this thread suggests a level of independence that a kid who is 19 does not have in the real world. When my kid can do all of those things and no longer depends on me, she is an adult. But I am happy to see her exercise the many adult responsibilities that she is ready to assume before she is 21.</p>
<p>Your 19 year old can’t enter into a legal contract? What?</p>
<p>And loans and rentals are COMPANY polices, not laws. You asked about laws.</p>
<p>
I am pretty certain my 18 year old could rent a zip car. Our older daughter at age 19 signed a rental contract on her own. A bank may not want to lend money to an 18 year old because he/she doesn’t have sufficient income, but it is not because he/she is 18. rommani is right that those are company policies, not laws.</p>
<p>To follow up to OF, I entered into a lease and got a loan at 19 (loan might have been 18).</p>
<p>I give up. I am doing a poor job of making my point, I guess. All I am saying is that until my kid no longer needs me to cosign a loan, be a secondary signer on a contract, or rent a car, etc., I think that she is not an “adult”. And I realize these are policies and not laws. But I also urge folks to take a few moments and search their state laws (most states have statutes that are searchable). There are many instances in many states (perhaps not all states) where a person is limited by state law from undertaking certain responsibilities until the person is 21.</p>
<p>dinner-I think you’re throwing around blanket prohibitions that do not apply in all locations. I absolutely know of young adults between 18-21 who signed leases on their own, who have sold deceased parents’ homes, got personal loans, rent Zipcars, etc. What on earth do you think those without parents do? Live on the streets? My H is one such person and he was absolutely living independently and paying his own way without co-signers. And this was a state which NEVER allowed drinking under 21. But at 18 legally young people are adults.</p>
<p>If you think people who need co-signers are not adults, there are lots of poor-credit rating 40 year olds running around who would be surprised to here that. If you and your family are ok with you treating legal adults like kids, go for it, though.</p>
<p>Well, I’ve yet to encounter anything in Michigan I couldn’t do at 18 besides drink and go to some casinos. I’ve entered into contracts, I’ve gotten loans, I’ve entered into leases, etc. My friends have joined the military, gotten married, legally had sex, gotten an abortion, etc. I’m not sure what other things are restrictive. </p>
<p>And what you think about your d is irrelevant to what an adult is. By your definition, I was an adult at 18/19.</p>
<p>Let me just say, as a final word, that this is the first thread that I have posted in CC and I am disappointed to find the tenor of the conversation to be so hostile to me. I have been trying to understand what posters mean when they use the term “adult” and have explained my view. I did not mean to offend and regret joining this conversation. You will hear no more from me:).</p>
<p>dinnerNmovie:</p>
<p>This is just discussion with varying points of view. If everyone agreed completely with each other it’d be a short thread and kind of boring. Hopefully no one is getting offended by hearing different points of view although that does sometimes happen.</p>
<p>Regarding ‘adult’ I think you should read that as I explicitly stated it in some of my posts - i.e. ‘legal adult age’. I think you’re generally referring to ‘emotional adult’ according to your own subjective judgement of the individual. Is that right? The legal definition is easy (i.e. age of 18) but the emotional one isn’t so easy since it varies with every person as well as different viewpoints about the same person.</p>
<p>As far as the definition of ‘legal adult’ it’s quite clear in the law and there isn’t much ambiguity. If your kid bought a car from someone at age 17 and you as a parent didn’t approve after the fact then ‘you’ could return the car and require that the seller return the funds since at 17 they’re a minor and can’t legally sign the sales contract or enter into that legal agreement. At age 18 though, even if they turned 18 yesterday, the scenario is completely different. They can’t return the car due to being a minor and you as a parent have no stake or say in it whatsoever. </p>
<p>The above is just one example of contracts but another major area is that at 18 your kid is free to leave home anytime they want with you having no legal recourse. Last week when they were 17 you would have had legal recourse to get the kid returned home and could enlist the help of the police but this week now that they’re 18 you don’t.</p>
<p>Private businesses aren’t obliged to make a loan to anyone and may not do so for a variety of reasons including age, income level, etc. They definitely won’t give a loan to someone under 18 due to the definition of ‘minor’ I indicated above but they might once the person turns 18. If, for some reason, that 18 y/o had plenty of assets (maybe the son of a rap star or someone with a large inheritance or a successful internet entrepreneur), you can bet that there will be plenty of lenders who’d be willing to provide a loan. Ditto with credit cards and many other things. In these cases it’s ‘business decisions’, not a matter of law.</p>
<p>Can’t get financial aid from a college on your own assets and income is one biggie. I’d love to see that one tested in court right up to the Supreme Court!</p>
<p>I just ran across a college example of adult. My daughter was 17 when she applied for housing for the fall term. We got notification that her housing package was accepted. She turned 18 last week. We both got email notification that now the housing contract now needed to updated to be signed by her, as she was the responsible adult.</p>
<p>I agree that these young adults don’t magically become responsible (in the developmental sense) just because the calendar says so. Its not like one day they are a minor and the next day they are responsible adults. But they are legally responsible for their actions. That said, I agree with worknprogress2, that when it comes to the impact of their choices on me, my house and potentially my license, I get a say. But this needs to be addressed in advance. Harder to deal with after the fact, but I would sure as heck be sure (as best as possible) that it never happened in my house again.</p>