@Sue22, in Section C8D of the 2016-2017 CDS, Bates actually confirms that they don’t use standardized test scores for academic advising, so I assume the 32 median noted in the 2021 Student Profile (it never states admitted/attending) vs the ~30 median in the CDS is solely due to those accepted as compared to those admitted/attending. It seems to make sense as most highly selective schools reference a 1 point drop, so 2 points is reasonable -That said I would assume the most selective schools with the highest yield rates (HYPS, MIT, Chicago, WASPB, etc.) don’t experience any drop.
@Chembiodad, that range is for members of the class of 2021who submitted scores, not for admitted students.
https://www.bates.edu/admission/student-profile/
Bates may not use the scores for academic advising but they do collect them. I know because my kids, who both applied without testing, were later asked to submit them.
It wouldn’t make sense to require testing for placement if
a. You don’t believe testing is always a good indicator of a student’s ability and/or
b. A portion of your student population may not have taken any standardize testing.
@Sue22, yes that’s where I saw the median ACT of 32 as well, but no it never says accepted/ admitted or accepted. Bates is a great school regardless, but schools definitely pick and choose how to present themselves in the best light.
Lots of schools use either the "accepted’ / “admitted” or “attending” student profile, some mix together and some like Carleton show both which in that case reflects a big delta - https://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/apply/requirements/profile/
Wesleyan, which is also a test optional school, uses “accepted” / “admitted” at the top of the student profile which is titled “PROFILE OF STUDENTS OFFERED ADMISSION FOR FALL 2017”, so do they mean the same when they get down to testing data - idk
http://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/apply/classprofile.html
@Chembiodad, It clearly says “Class of 2021” and lists 510 students in that group. That’s the number of kids in the freshman class, not the number who were admitted in March.
I don’t see a median ACT of 32 on the Class of 2021 page linked in post #21… I see a 50% range of 30-32. You may be looking at the admitted student thread for 2019. That listed a median of 32 for admitted students.
@Sue22, you are correct that they reference a range in the 2021 student profile. Yes, that’s a great point as the April 2015 news release states that the 2019 accepted/admitted student median ACT was 32 - we don’t know what the attending was at that time.
Not to keep spinning on this, but lets assume that that 2021 profile is fairly similar to the the 2020 profile (the last CDS information available).
- Given that Bates is test optional, I’ll figure that 30% of the students didn’t submit test scores.
- Assuming the 2021 student profile of SAT CR 690-730, SAT M 690-730, and ACT 30-32 is for attending students and not accepted,
- Then for the 2016-2017 CDS to end up at SAT CR 570 690, SAT M 580 700, ACT 27-32, those that didn’t submit scores for admission but were counted in the CDS would have to have very different scores than the others.
Maybe other test optional colleges reflect the same disparity - idk. I do know Bates is a great school!
You have to scroll all the way down the webpage where they introduce an entirely new nomenclature:
MATRICULANTS
Yes, and that doesn’t foot to CDS either. So Weseyan has three different data points:
Accepted SAT: CR 720-770, M 720-790
Matriculated SAT (if we assume that’s what it means):
- 2016 CR 730, M 720
- 2017 CR 740, M 740
CDS SAT (2016-2017): CR 620-740, M 630-740
The difference between Accepted and Matriculated makes sense as plenty will have WASPB as their #1 and Wesleyan as #2. That said, given the Student Profile stated that 24% didn’t have scores considered in admission process, something is awry between Matriculated and CDS,
If by B, you mean, Brown, that would be correct.
Meant Bowdoin
deleted.
Yes, and you can’t get to a CDS median/avg. that comes close to Matriculated median/avg., so what is driving delta?
When I look at Hamilton, a comparable “test flexible” school that has 15% submitting test results other than SAT or ACT composite scores, they report:
Accepted:
ACT 32-34
SAT (New) 1420-1510, (Old) 1430-1540
Admitted CDS (2016-2017):
ACT - 31-33
SAT CR 650-740, M 650-740
Question is whether the additional 9% of test optional/test flexible at Wesleyan (24% test optional vs. 15% test flexible at Hamilton) would pull down the bottom 25% SAT that much more (Wesleyan 620 CR, 630 M vs Hamilton 650 CR, 650 M)? This all assumes that the CDS also includes test optional/test flexible admittances / matriculants.
Wesleyan received nearly 5,000 more applications than Bowdoin. So, it’s unlikely there would be that many overlaps with it or with any one NESCAC.
@Circuitrider, that doesn’t make any sense as yes there are reams of CC threads that include applicants to Amherst, Bowdoin, Hamilton, and Williams, amongst other NESCAC’s. Here’s College Niche’s list of crossover schools for Wesleyan - “Students also applied to …Vassar College, Amherst College, Williams College, Bowdoin College, Middlebury College, Swarthmore College, Hamilton College, Haverford College”.
Regarding # of applications, Wesleyan is 55% larger than Bowdoin so the 5,000 application increase, 12200 vs 7200, makes sense both from a ratio and appeal perspective as very few top LAC’s are as big as Wesleyan which broadens interest.
Really? I haven’t seen them. I mostly see Wesleyan versus somewhat bigger universities, often a state flagship (Wake Forest, Emory, Cal Berkeley, Brown, NYU, UNC-CH, UVA, to name a few.)
Circuitrider, this back and forth makes no sense as the CC threads are there as well;
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/2019255-wesleyan-vs-bowdoin.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/wesleyan-university/2027415-wesleyan-vs-bates.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/2024514-wesleyan-vs-carleton-vs-macalester.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1887482-wesleyan-vs-vassar.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/bates-college/1440924-bates-vs-wesleyan-vs-hamilton-vs-colgate.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/wesleyan-university/1980894-wesleyan-vs-grinnell.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/20885220#Comment_20885220 - Chances for Dartmouth,Northwestern, Yale, Harvard, Wesleyan, Hamilton, Amherst, and brown?
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1691884-wes-vs-hamilton.html
There’s tons of them - good night
^No, no. You raise an important point. I see that over the past year, the ratio of threads regarding Wesleyan and other LACs and ones that at least bracket a larger uni is about 50/50:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/2039325-wesleyan-vs-emory-ed2.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/2038738-chance-me-at-bowdoin-ed-rice-bc-colgate-nyu-bu-wesleyan.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/2010436-what-are-my-chances-for-u-penn-berkeley-wesleyan-gw-and-georgetown.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/university-michigan-ann-arbor/2000162-u-michigan-vs-wesleyan-political-science-major.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1983210-comparing-culture-in-wesleyan-university-with-nyu.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1977093-wesleyan-vs-w-m.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1966422-suggestions-for-schools-similar-to-brown-wesleyan.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1964630-predictions-for-brown-stanford-penn-tufts-wesleyan-swarthmore-pomona-etc.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1959729-chance-me-boston-u-davidson-college-tulane-u-wesleyan.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1947995-theatre-major-tufts-brown-washu-barnard-vassar-wesleyan.html
Given Wesleyan’s size (~3000) it would make sense that it should appeal to both people looking for a traditional LAC as well as those looking at small universities.