<p>"Brain scans reflect how we behave"</p>
<p>Umm no, spect and or PET scans map out damaged/inadequately functioning portions of the brain.</p>
<p>One year of decent prepping with or without a diagnosis would give the same exact results of improvement, if not, then the prepping was inadequate.</p>
<p>inspiration08: Can you get National Merit if you took PSAT with extended time?
Also, no one answered my question (at least I don't think so): do colleges see that you had special conditions? If not, I think I'll head over to some 5$ shrink, get ADHD (what?) and take the ACT with extra time. I got 33 first time under STANDARDIZED conditions... I'm sure I could pull a 36.</p>
<p>No, colleges do not see that you had extra time or any accommodations. These tests used to be flagged, but not anymore. I think there has been an increase in requests for extra time, etc since the results are no longer flagged. Some wealthy communities have disproportionate numbers of students with accommodations (there's a thread somewhere on CC about this issue), probably because the families can afford to have extensive testing done until they find the right diagnosis to allow extra time, etc.</p>
<p>Disability</a> Requests Reflect Changes in SAT Procedure - New York Times</p>
<p>in the book Academy X by Andrew Trees, there is a hilarious passage about the prestigious (unnamed, but widely presumed to be Horace Mann) prep school the main character teaches at describing the surge in "learning disabilities" for extra time once collegeboard/ETS quit reporting extra time to colleges. it's true- wealthy families can afford to pay for extensive testing that will provide them with the answers they want (often in the form of obscure psuedo-psychiatric disorders) in order to get extra time, and colleges are none the wiser.</p>
<p>Yes, you can qualify or the National Merit Scholarship even if you test with extended time.</p>
<p>All of you are looking at accommodations the wrong way. Inspiration 08 is the perfect example of your thoughts on the subject. </p>
<p>"i know someone who took the PSAT as a sophomore and got a 160. he was then "diagnosed" with a learning disability and granted extra time. as a junior, he took the PSAT again and got a 220. any rational person can see that he clearly did not get 60 points smarter in just 1 year. it was unfair."</p>
<p>Of course his score went up! He didn't get 60 points smarter in one year! He got the accommodations he needed to demonstrate his KNOWLEDGE!</p>
<p>I agree that there are uber rich parents out there that will spend as much money as possible to get their child diagnosed and then receive accommodations but this is not the source of the problem. As a said before, the school system is at fault! There has been an ever increasing pressure for schools to do well to meet the requirements of No Child Left Behind and state standardized tests. As a result, more and more often schools are pressuring their psychologists to diagnose students with a disability to improve their statistics, no matter what health consequences may arise. (I have written a paper on this in school as well.)</p>
<p>This is the reason the college board is tightening their standards. Of course, I feel like I got mine because my documentation has been constantly updated since the 3rd grade. I started receiving them when my teacher noticed that though I was ahead in the class I was scoring below the bottom 10%. They had me take the test again in the in the book instead of bubbling in answers and I shot up to the top 10% nationally. (A different form of the test was used so the questions weren't the same of course) I didn't even receive extra time back in those days. Amb3r, this just shows how ignorant you are.</p>
<p>No one should EVER EVER EVER EVER deny someone's RIGHT to accommodations without looking at the circumstances. Yes, there are LAWS requiring these accommodations are filled. (Ever heard of IDEA and ADA?) </p>
<p>What if someone is visually impaired because of a birth defect and must hear the questions on an audio tape?</p>
<p>What if someone has a VISUAL TRACKING ISSUE where they understand the material, got the right answer, but can't correctly fill the bubble? Do you deny them the ability to put down the correct answer though they know it? This is why accommodations exist!</p>
<p>You guys are also misunderstanding the meaning of a STANDARDIZED test. It has been standardized in that all students are being tested on their KNOWLEDGE. To do this, disabled students must be given the appropriate accommodations they need to demonstrate their KNOWLEDGE to make the test STANDARDIZED!</p>
<p>All right enough of arguing over this. I want to see real world examples of scores with extended time and accommodations. We need scores and examples until then this thread is kind of piontless.</p>
<p>dvm258;
We all have knowledge with additional time; it sure is convenient to double check every single math problem.</p>
<p>I wonder how many National Merit kids have extra time.</p>
<p>instead of worrying why some people get extended time, why dont you jsut worry about doing well with the time you are given? complaining and *****ing wont get you anywhere or get you a better score (for all of the overachieving CC kids out there)</p>
<p>See the funny thing is, is that these ignorant people feel that because they dont have a disorder, people who do have a disorder are making it up/ or dont need the accomodations they are given. Like people who say ADD is stupid or it doesnt exist... like ok you can say that but thats an opinion which is backed by no research or experience. The tests only reflect intelligence under the right situations, just because someone has trouble concentrating does not mean that they should be forced to take the test within the same time constraints. And to those who say oh well with that amount of time, anyone could do well they are wrong. Just because it takes you 40 seconds to answer a question does not mean it takes someone with ADD the same amount of time. In the end it is all equal. And i know plenty of kids with extra time who still get like 24 on the ACT</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure when I said ADHD doesn't exist, I said that was my opinion. </p>
<p>Anyways, how could he who has ADD/ADHD qualify having it vs. not having it. I hate when people say "you don't know what it's like." Actually, yes, I do know what it's like to lose focus on something, it's called CC and the rest of the internet. </p>
<p>"But I have it much worse."</p>
<p>How the hell do you know.</p>
<p>In the end it is not equal, in the end, people with special accommodations are taking a standardized test in nonstandard conditions.</p>
<p>ADHD is certainly overrated and usually a excuse. I'm not saying there isn't a super bad case where the kid would seriously get a 10 without medication/accommodations. But I know plenty of people with ADHD that have scored in the high 20s without extended time. </p>
<p>On the other hand, ADHD isn't the only reason you're given accommodations dude. How the hell do you expect a blind person to take the test? Yes by having braile, it is not standard. But do you honestly expect a person who is blind to take the ACT like the rest of us?</p>
<p>ADHD is the most prevalent reason we hear about accommodations, but don't forget about those who without a doubt NEED the accommodations.</p>
<p>In another argument, I distinguished physical disabilities as clearly worthy.</p>
<p>^ I clearly didn't read that :-p</p>
<p>You seriously think I have the time to do that noobcake?</p>
<p>Maybe you would. After all, you don't have a disability.</p>
<p>The most time I usually have left over when done is two minutes. Remember, this is my RECORD.</p>
<p>"Anyways, how could he who has ADD/ADHD qualify having it vs. not having it"</p>
<p>Its called getting psychoeducational testing done, if one has true ADD/ADHD or any other learning difference, these particular tests are used to determine the level or classification of the disability it is not just because they said they have it. It isn't THAT easy to obtain don't fool yourself. </p>
<p>And yeah I know PLENTY that no matter how much time they still get low 20s even with extra time, yet know kids that got 34's with extra time, time isn;t going to give you the right answer if you don't know the material.</p>
<p>I don't really care that you don't have time to check your answers even with extended time. Lots of people can't finish the test in the standard amount of time. They all have "reasons", too, whether it's some undiagnosed eye-tracking disorder or some other pseudoscientific processing disorder; it's unfair that you're given extra time just to FINISH the test when many had to stop in the middle. You are all slow for some reason, there is clearly something holding all of you back from faster performance, and if you give me a day, I too can write a paragraph talking about some random impairment you have.</p>
<p>Of course some people who do very well in school do poorly on standardized tests. They are different types of measures of intelligence or applied intelligence. They don't measure the same thing. Maybe you KNOW all the answers, but that doesn't mean you deserve a 36. Colleges also want to see whether it takes you a year to finish the questions or whether you can finish them very quickly and with high accuracy. Speed is not just an irrelevant factor here, especially not for the ACT. The ACT is far more straightforward as a test than the SAT. If you gave everybody extra time, scores would shoot WAY up. </p>
<p>The only kind of accomodations I support are for those kids who are physically disabled.</p>
<p>I don't care whether someone has 100 or 35 minutes for reading section. I just don't think anyone has the right to "brag" about their scores. You may have a great score, but it doesn't mean you have to right to kill other people's self-esteem.</p>
<p>For those that believe ADD and the like don't exist, any of you drink caffeine the morning of a test? That is equivalent to a low dose of ADD meds, so think about that one as you state that ADD is a non diagnosis.</p>
<p>Hello, I just signed up to these boards specifically to address the issue presented on this topic:</p>
<p>Okay, I see most people here speaking on speculation about extended time being unfair and the like, yet you yourself do not have ADD/ADHD nor the effects that it causes. </p>
<p>I have ADD, and it affects me GREATLY in class everyday. I struggle with homework assignments and studying because I cannot sit down and focus on it for more than a few minutes, or get started with it in the first place for that matter. This is NOT because I am apathetic. It is also NOT because I am unintelligent. I have had many IQ tests at younger and older ages throughout my academic career, and have been categorized as "gifted". </p>
<p>I went to private gifted grade schools that only accepted people who had IQ's greater than 125. However, even with my intelligence, I always struggled in school. My GPA is crap. 2.6. Why? I don't do homework. BUT, I always seem to pull an A out of no where on most tests and quizzes. This is because I am smart enough where I do not need to study or really pay attention.</p>
<p>NOW, throughout my high school career, I've noticed I ALWAYS finish last on tests and quizzes. I never knew why, until I was diagnosed with ADD. Even though most kids finished 20 minutes before me, I always had the highest grade in the class (on the test). Even when I REALLY studied, and knew every question with full confidence, AND even tried to rush myself to be first, I managed to STILL be the last person to finish. Though I still got a 100%.</p>
<p>What I am saying is that my ADD impairs my ability to keep up with the rest of the class at that instant. It does not mean I am a slow learner. In fact, I understand the material even more compared to most of the class. It is just that it takes me a LITTLE bit longer to think about it and write it out. This... over a long time like on the ACT, will cause me to finish behind everyone else.</p>
<p>I took the ACT twice, both WITHOUT extended time. I scored a 26, and then a 28. Let me add that the first time I took the test, I had over 15 questions UNANSWERED on EACH section of the test. (I filled them in with COMPLETELY random guesses a few seconds before the test time was called). The second time I took it, I felt I should hurry up and finish each answer as quickly as I could, but I STILL was not able to finish ANY section of the test on time. Though I completed more than the previous time, I had rushed so much that my PRE ALGEBRA SCORES DROPPED 4 POINTS! That stuff is EASY! I was in the 60th percentile on that sub-section. I felt that my intelligence or understanding of the material was not being reflected on the test.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, I JUST took the ACT again WITH extended time this past Saturday, and am currently awaiting my scores...</p>
<p>I'll post here the improvement. I felt much more comfortable taking the test, however, I wasn't able to finish the writing section, which I think shows how much I needed the time. (though I may have felt TOO comfortable at the beginning of the test and spent too much time on the English section).</p>
<p>But I feel standardized testing is standardized for the STANDARD human; without disabilities or impairments. If a person with ADD, like me, had to take a standardized test, it wouldn't quite be so standardized for him or her. They should take a test that is STANDARDIZED for people of THAT STANDARD, which may be a learning disability or something else of that matter that causes them to require extended time on tests.</p>
<p>So that is what I feel. And I also would like to add that SillBill's interpretations of this matter are flawed, ESPECIALLY with his false example of Medical School.</p>
<p>I'll keep you updated when I receive my scores.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Mike</p>