<p>
[quote]
Let’s make it 90%. That way I can stay home and get government benefits while your folks go out and work.</p>
<p>Jeder nach seinen F</p>
<p>
Our middle school did a sequence around the election this fall, culminating in a mock election.</p>
<p>Result: Obama 548, Mitt Romney 0.</p>
<p>I’m sure our little darlings are just precocious, and the teachers didn’t have any impact on this. ;)</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Well I didn’t see where you’re talking about over $300K.</p>
<p>But don’t you think that people that make over $300K will figure out a
way to shelter that income? And the people that are way over $300K
will look at moving to changing citizenship?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Well, we have some strong disagreements on who pays for what and how
much. But I have the benefit of experience.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Society as a whole benefits from people without college too. Not all
of them. But not all people that go to college benefit society in the
amount that you want society to benefit them with.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>The guy I know works for a foreign multinational. He does deals in the
$100 million and up range. And he knows the technology that he sells
for his company better than anyone else. He’s a former mercenary. I
talked to him about what he does for his company and I would have
expected a background in geology and chemical engineering. I spoke to
his wife and she told me that he’s never gone to college. He worked
with lots of engineers and studied on his own because he didn’t like
knowing less than they did.</p>
<p>Bill Gates does mean a lot - he started an industry responsible for
hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs. The guy I work for has
done similarly. In many, many cases, it’s the person; not the
education.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>But we also benefit from his spending - that’s one of the arguments
made for subsidizing education.</p>
<p>If you don’t like tech executives, there are always sports stars that
didn’t go to college like Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Serena and
Venus Williams. They provide entertainment and health benefits, jobs
to companies like Wilson, Head, Nike, Adidas, distribution and retail
jobs and jobs for those in the media.</p>
<p>Should they get a subsidy?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Our high school did one too, Romney won by about 20%. I guess it all depends where you live ;)</p>
<p>Very interesting report with data which shows the trends in public & private college revenue sources from 2000-2010:
<a href=“http://www.deltacostproject.org/pdfs/Revenue_Trends_Production.pdf[/url]”>http://www.deltacostproject.org/pdfs/Revenue_Trends_Production.pdf</a></p>
<p>It is a big surprise to me that the biggest contributor to revenue for PUBLIC research universities is the combination of (see p.7 in the report):
Auxiliary enterprises:
Revenues generated by or collected from auxiliary enterprise operations of the institution that furnish a service to students, faculty, or staff and that charge a fee related to the cost of service. These are generally self-supporting activities, such as residence halls, food services, student health services, and intercollegiate athletics.</p>
<p>plus</p>
<p>Hospitals, independent operations, and other sources:
Revenue generated by hospitals operated by the postsecondary institution. Revenues associated with the medical school are not included. Independent operations are revenues associated with operations independent or unrelated to instruction, research, or public services and generally include only revenues from major, federally funded research and development centers. Other sources include educational sales and services and miscellaneous revenues not covered elsewhere.</p>
<p>No wonder Penn State protected its football team…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Absolutely agree - and your caveat is noted and appreciated - not to take this thread off-topic, but among K12 reforms, I’d favor longer school years and better mechanisms to isolate and protect willing and eager learners from negative influences - I’ve witnessed too many astute kids dragged into academic mediocrity by negative peer pressure and dumbed-down classes. </p>
<p>Anymore, a bit more on-topic - another area worthy of consideration is far greater availability of technical / occupational training as an alternative to college. I know many, many kids for whom college tuition isn’t the real problem - many wouldn’t go even if it were free. Coming from low- to middle-income families, they want to earn some money, now, and the thought of four more years of little/no income isn’t as appealing as getting some retail job and earning some money <em>now</em>. I’d argue many of those same kids might make a different choice if they were offered the alternative to learn a skilled trade, such as computer systems admin, carpentry, electrician, HVAC, etc. </p>
<p>Bear in mind, many of the most successful people in our history never graduated from college - I’d suspect many of them were restless, creative types who couldn’t sit still for four (more) years - Michael Dell, Larry Ellison, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, none of them finished college. </p>
<p>Rather than putting a lot more into colleges, to benefit those who’ll probably go to college in any event, I’d rather see increased investments in K12 and technical / occupational training programs.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>This is what community colleges are for in many states. These used to be called vocational/technical colleges but I think that they’ve come under the community college umbrella. The ones in my state were more focused on voc/tech in the past but have added more academic courses. This is why our kids took community college courses out-of-state when they were in their high-school years - I didn’t like the offerings in our state.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>That’s a pretty nice list.</p>
<p>I would also like to see companies sponsoring students too. We have lots of companies that state that they have openings but that there aren’t enough graduates with the particular skills that they need. I’d like to see companies sponsor students through college - the students have to be in a particular major, work at the company during breaks and work for the company for a few years in return for greatly discounted university costs. Kind of a corallary to Teach for America except the company pays up-front. Companies right now want the student to pay for the training and take the gamble that they will get hired. Well companies can get exactly what they want if they contribute to paying the costs.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hmm, well for the most part, our CC system, while pretty good, is still structured around academics and AA degrees - and are based on traditional 2 or 3 sessions a week, and a quarters- or semester-system. I’m thinking 8 hours a day learning a specific skill set - after high school, I did this - 8 hours a day for a year learning electronics engineering. This isn’t really available these days - our CC’s are more academically focused, and lack the intensity/depth I’m talking of. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Some bio firms offer this in limited ways, and certain federal agencies, such as the Corps of Engineers, have such programs. The problem with private industry funding such scholarship/internships would seem to be long-term success rates and retention - what happens when I sponsor some kid through 4 years of college, and then they decide they want to work at a surf shop instead of the “engineer” I thought I was paying for? Do I sue them? For what? </p>
<p>I mean, I’ve run / helped run similar programs for college grads; spend 6 months or a year training them in subjects / disciplines that my company needed, and paying them during training. And once they’d received the tens of thousands of dollars of training, most of them left, now being worth more on the open market - and by “most”, I mean ~90% in a year. </p>
<p>Now, take a high school senior, and hope that 4 years later, they’ve graduated and are still interested in the type of work you want them for? </p>
<p>While I’m sure some companies must do it, the ROI on this type of thing must be excruciatingly low.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Our local community college has Associate Degree Programs in Automotive Technology, Honda/Acura Professional Automotive Career Training, Collision Repair Technology, and Machine Tool Technology among others.</p>
<p>Another local community college has Associate Degrees in Automotive, Building Construction, Electrical Technology, HVAC, Interior Design, Welding, among others. They have certificate programs in CAD, Mechatronics, Air Conditioning/Refrigeration, Building Construction, Construction Drafting, Electrical Technology, Heating Services and Welding Technology.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Secure it with a loan with forgiveness based on work. If the student wants to walk away, then they have to repay the loan.</p>