<p>@Exhausted,</p>
<p>Sorry, I should have typed “tuition-free” college to their citizens. It DEFINITELY IS NOT FREE-- it’s going to be other people’s money…</p>
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<p>Actually, the citizens are pretty happy with what they get from their taxes. Many of these socialist countries top the charts when it comes to happiness, actually. No reports of death by taxation at all.</p>
<p>Did anyone here read GMT’s post and think a college education was completely free in some nations? Anyone? Let’s have a show of internet hands.</p>
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<p>These countries were actually spending a lot more than they were taking in in taxes. Now it is time to pay the piper.</p>
<p>UC Berkeley is one of the top universities in the nation/world, has the highest number of Pell grant recipients, and an alumni giving rate that is far below the national average. Do you think this is because Cal grads cannot afford to give back after graduation? If it is, then Cal is a seriously over-rated institution.</p>
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<p>Fiscal responsibility (which our un-socialist state also has problems with) and high taxation for expensive social programs are totally different issues and bringing up red herrings isn’t going to change the facts that social democracies have more satisfied citizens.</p>
<p>The fact that both Europe and America is having this problem makes your point moot.</p>
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<p>Yes, s/he is. However, the availability of an additional surgeon improves access to surgical services for people who need surgery, and any additional earnings that s/he makes as a surgeon gets spent or invested into the economy, resulting in increased overall wealth of the economy.</p>
<p>That is a lot better than if s/he could not get educated and could only get lower skill jobs (possibly with greater risk of being on welfare at cost to society), or applied his/her talents to criminal activities at large cost to society.</p>
<p>The surgeon who received his/her education at a public university ought to pay it forward by paying it back, rather than leaving the burden of educating the next needy surgeon-candidate on the backs of other paying and/or borrowing students who may end up paying for that surgeon’s new car too, by paying for their own surgery one day.</p>
<p>Progressive taxation would make this happen.</p>
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<p>Money flows to where it is treated well.</p>
<p>This is why there is high demand for accountants.</p>
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Well there is Kuwait…</p>
<p>^Lol, BC, I treat all my money well :). I particularly like to take it out to dinner…</p>
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<p>And you don’t think that there is a correlation between alumni giving and wealth of the student body?</p>
<p>Idk. Are you implying that poor students remain poor even after they graduate from top colleges, and that is why their alumni giving rate is low?</p>
<p>I wonder whether the factor that influences giving the most is the feeling of loyalty toward the university. Was the alum happy there? Did he/she meet lifelong friends? Become a big fan of the school’s athletic teams? Want others to share in that experience? Love being on campus so much that he/she returns several times a year for homecoming, parents’ weekend, basketball/football/soccer games, concerts, etc.? Some schools (especially those with strong Division I sports programs) have many of those types of alumni, and other schools (even highly-ranked ones) just don’t.</p>
<p>Maybe Berkeley, as great a university as it is, just doesn’t inspire that same level of alumni loyalty. It may have little to do with income; it may have more to do with sports.</p>
<p>There must have been some study done on this. :)</p>
<p>BCEagle is right … gross oversimplifications have grabbed this thread by the throat. Each of those oversimplifications is worthy of its own thread. What do we have on this page alone?</p>
<ul>
<li>Pell Grants at Berkeley</li>
<li>Education costs in Socialist Countries</li>
<li>Marginal value of Surgeons</li>
<li>Progressive taxation</li>
<li>Alumni Giving</li>
</ul>
<p>Unless someone can tie these disparate parts together it may be time to adjourn this meeting.</p>
<p>Sports might have something to do with alumni giving, but not all…</p>
<p>UC-B…12% giving rate
U Michigan…15%
UW Madison…11% alumni giving rate
UIUC…13% rate</p>
<p>Very few give back to their U if they are state school grad. Period. Even the ‘wealthy’.</p>
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<p>I’d love to see stats on that.</p>
<p>Maybe it has something to do with the top guy at the school too and how successful the person is at fundraising and management.</p>
<p>Whether one is “inspired” or not to give back should be irrelevant to one’s obligation to give back.</p>
<p>Well, it may be more nagging than inspiration.</p>
<p>Or it may be friendships or other relationships or connections.</p>
<p>This must be the theory - why else do schools spend so much on the people that run them?</p>
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<p>This is my understanding. in US, a job worth $100 is given $100 salary. Then the gov takes, say, 30% tax. In those socialist countries, they withhold $60 first and only give the worker $40. Then they take 2% tax on that $40. The citizens are fooled to believe the tax is low and they got all these benefits.</p>