<p>Demonstrated interest means a LOT more to safeties that to most reaches. For those colleges who do care if you visit, requesting an interview while on campus is one way to show genuine interest. If the student can't visit, then inquiring about and attending regional admissions fairs where college reps are there to answer questions is another way. And the essays must reflect a genuine interest in the school. Safeties reject many students who are "overqualified", because they feel certain those students would not attend if accepted elsewhere- symptoms of "Tufts syndrome". Thus, you really need to "show the love" to your safeties.</p>
<p>menloparkmom</p>
<p>We've visited, he's interviewed, he's sent the thank you cards, he's figured out how these schools could be great for him, really great. Does he need to do more? He's thinking of applying EA to both of the safer schools (they both said that was ok). Are we missing something?</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for input. We'll look at it carefully!</p>
<p>My sons' college counselors say to just put down some like schools. You do not have to give a comprehensive list. Don't give it another thought. If an adcom rea¬ly wants to know where else a student applied, I'm sure he can find out. The way applications are examined, I doubt that they take the trouble, unless this is a highly recruited student that the school really wants.</p>
<p>Applying EA , and writing essays that show his knowledge of the school and how he would be a great "fit" are the best ways to let them know he really want to go there. Good luck!</p>
<p>
[quote]
pulled the commonapp for 2006-7 and I can't even find where they ask for the other schools . I may be losing my eyesight but I can't even find it on the two supps I looked at
[/quote]
Ditto -- I thought I was going crazy because I know I've stared at the Common App for a looong time since it was made available this year, and I don't see the question at all.</p>
<p>It's not there.</p>
<p>Well, what's up with that? I know D answered it last year. Lot's of times because we thought about what to put every time. LOL. I checked Hamilton and Rhodes and neither asked. Is this something new or are we "three visually impaired mice"?</p>
<p>The Grinnell Common App- Preliminary App. has this. It is optional, but I'm sure it's not the only request for this I've seen. Again, just a request. I don't think they can require it. Just hoping to use the wisdom of CC to deal with this as best as possible.</p>
<p>I was looking at the print out of the instructions for filling out the common app, and I couldn't find any question about where else the applicant is applying. I have a feeling it was on the supplements for each college, however.</p>
<p>A few issues here....</p>
<p>You asked about why some good students are rejected at their safeties....One reason could be that their safeties were not true safeties, as I have seen some kids' college lists on CC and what they call a safety is not a safety. Or some just have one safety and I like to see two safeties (at least you'll end up with a choice of schools in spring), or some just tack on a state school they have no interest in attending. Another reason kids may not get into their safety is that they put no energy into showing interest in the school and in fact, some do not even HAVE much interest in the school (which I can never figure out why someone applies to school they say they have no interest in attending, but I see that on here quite a bit). Some file the safety app as an exercise, with very little effort and it shows.</p>
<p>I am totally with you when you say it would not be too "fair" for colleges to not admit someone just because they think they are the student's safety because all students deserve to have safeties and SHOULD have them, after all. They need them. They may not get into their reaches or matches. </p>
<p>However, the key is to show GENUNINE interest in the safeties. My daughter treated every school on her list the same, whether a reach, match, or safety. She explored them all in depth and visited, interviewed, met with professors, and others on campus. She wanted to know all she could about every school on her list, no matter the odds of admissions because she just may be going there. Some applications had a "Why X College" essay but if they did not, she wrote about that in a cover letter to her application. This statement was highly individualized for each school. One essay statement could not be substituted for another school. She gave SPECIFICS about why she wanted that school and got into what she had done on the visits, whom she had spoken to, and so on. Some students express no interest in their safeties and it shows. My D's safeties were treated as her reaches were treated and she showed genuine interest. She got into these schools. One safety gave her a substantial merit aid scholarship and we didn't even know that existed. I recall an adcom sending her a "likely" sort of email in Jan. that said she was just the kind of student they were looking for. So, students who are above the norm for a school are students they may want to have, don't forget. Also, my D did not use the common application. Both my girls did the specific application for each school, which in my mind, shows some thought and care geared toward what each school wants on their own application, even though they all accept the common app. They had to write umpteen essays but it surely didn't come across as one size fits all that way. </p>
<p>About the question as to "where else are you applying?" Well, this wasn't on my older D's applications. She didn't use common app and I did not see it on anything she had to fill out but the FAFSA. I don't think this is a fair question. I think a better question is asking a student what their college criteria is and why they want to go to this particular school. IF asked this question, I think I'd do what others on here are mostly suggesting, which is not to lie but to only reveal colleges on the list that are in the same range or below the college that asked the question, so it doesn't look like the safety on the list. </p>
<p>My second daughter WAS asked this question when she auditioned at many BFA programs. Many had a form to fill out at the audition or had it on their application. She chose to fill it out as I explained above, writing down about 5 of her 8 schools, ones in a similar ballpark but not "above". Well, at one audition which included some "interview" questions, the adjudicators asked her, "Why aren't YOU applying to NYU/Tisch?" which was not a school she listed on the form that they had her fill out at the audition. It was a weird question. Tisch is a more renowned program than the one she was at though that one was still highly selective. Well, she really HAD applied to NYU/Tisch but wasn't then going to say, "oh, I really did apply there." So, she told them reasons why someone might not apply to Tisch by contrasting it with the school she was at and turning it more into why she wanted to go to their school and how it differed than Tisch. She was accepted to the school that quizzed her on this. Subsequently, she was also accepted to NYU/Tisch and is attending. </p>
<p>I interview candidates for Tufts University. Years ago, in a friendly way out of pure interest, I would ask where else the student was applying. However, as my own kids became college applicants, I realized this was an unfair question and I never ask it anymore. I do ask their college criteria and preferences and how they have gone about choosing colleges and what they want in a college. I also ask why they want to go to Tufts. That's all I think a college should ask. The names of other schools is not their business. They should want to know what a student wants in a college and how well he/she has ascertained if this college is the best fit. </p>
<p>I think your son is on the right track as he genuinely likes his safeties and he should make sure to let them know just why he'd like to attend. He shoulld do whatever interviews/visits, contacts he can, just as if it were his reach school. A statement about "why X college" should be part of the app, and some apps actually ask it, but if you are using the common app, it doesn't. So, have him include it in a letter. If you used the school's own app, you will notice that many ask the "why X college" on their apps. I like having a student gear their apps to each school.</p>
<p>I don't know how the Common App worked in the past, but if the "what other school" question was ever part of the main app it looks like they took it out and told the schools to put it in the Supplement if they still wanted to know. </p>
<p>Fortunately, none of S' potential schools ask this question. I don't like it -- while there may be completely innocuous reasons to ask it, I just believe that the main reason is enrollment management. Like soozie, I think a far better question would explore what an applicant is looking for in a college. </p>
<p>UDel has an odd question of their Supplement that simply asks "Is the University of Delaware your first choice?" -- not an essay or anything, just a yes/no box. Seems strange to me. I think they'll get an overwhelming number of "yes" answers from kids who think that a "no" would be a black mark (whether that's a rational belief or not).</p>
<p>lderochi, I also think asking if it is their first choice is not a fair question either. When my kids wrote their "why X College" statement, they never lied and said "this is my first choice." What they did was, IF it was one of their first choices (and my kids had more than one first choice, thankfully), they DID say that the school was one of their first/top choices. Otherwise, they talked about really wanting to attend and why but didn't say "first choice". I don't think a school should put them on the spot and ask. ED is there if a school wants a kid to indicate it is their first choice and they'd attend if admitted. Otherwise, it is up to the kid to let them know how much they want to attend, if it is a top choice, or if it is a first choice. But I don't think that question should be asked. It should be volunteered. </p>
<p>I also agree that the "where else are you appyling" is to benefit the school and judge if the kid is going to come or not. I think it is more important to determine if the kid has chosen this school for specific and solid reasons. Also, sometimes schools will look for a pattern if they know the other schools....such as all liberal arts schools? size? etc. And frankly, my kids had some choices that were not all the exact same type but they had real reasons for liking each one. So, I wouldn't want Conn College, for example, to say, "this kid will never come here as she has Penn on the list." She liked each one for different reasons.</p>
<p>Like I said, the question about where else you're applying was NOT on D1's applications (she applied to very selective colleges). But it was on quite a few apps or audition forms for D2's schools (BFA programs).</p>
<p>I'm a new poster to CC, but I've been reading posts for several months and I'm still unclear about match/safety.</p>
<p>In my son's case, we're hoping two schools (that we've visited and he likes and can afford) with acceptance rates in the 60+% range will be "safe bets" for him because he's a great student (2340 SAT, 3.98 GPA UW, several good ECs all 4 years of HS with some leadership). He writes very well and should get great recs. And to hedge that bet, he's thinking to apply to them EA so if they don't accept him, for whatever weird reason, he can reasses.</p>
<p>But if a true safety is a 100% acceptance rate, he doesn't have a true safety on his list.</p>
<p>Bethie, a true safety or "likely" doesn't mean the school offers a 100% acceptance rate. "Safety" or "likely" is a term relative to EACH student individually. For instance, my older D's safeties would be reaches for many other students. They were only likely admits for her. She was a top student also in all respects. Her safety schools were Lehigh and Conn College (both of which she was admitted to). I recommend two safeties. It so happens that she also had a free ride at UVM because she was valedictorian from our HS and all vals in VT get the Green and Gold Scholarship. However, she had no intentions of applying there and had built her college list of 8 schools without UVM. Since she had the free ride and free application and an offer to Honors College, she did submit this, but we never truly considered UVM part of her list and thus Lehigh and Conn College were her safeties. </p>
<p>Do not mix safety and match up, however. I see some do that here. I see SOME have all reaches and then tack on a safety, often their state U (just because). A truly balanced list needs reaches, matches, and safeties. Roughly speaking, if a kid applies to 8 schools, that would be about 3 reaches, 3 matches and 2 safeties. </p>
<p>When you evaluate what is "likely" or "safe" for your son, you are doing the right thing....if the admit rate is much higher than his other schools, and his stats are well above average for the school, those are likely safeties for him. </p>
<p>Here are my definitions as I tell them to students:</p>
<p>Reach schools are ones that are not as likely for you based on your stats, though are not out of the question either. Reach schools should be thought of as long shots but not impossible to get in. If you look at the stats of admitted students and the percentage of admitted kids who had those stats, you will see that your odds are less likely at these schools but you surely can go for it if you wish but know what you are getting into here. Your test scores, GPA, and/or class rank are below those of the majority of accepted students at these schools and it would take something compelling on your application to override those odds. I am just being realistic about your odds, even though you are surely “worthy” of admission at these schools. Ideally, you will not have too many schools in this category, maybe something like three. These are possibilities to shoot for but cannot be counted on.</p>
<p>**However, in the case of the most selective colleges of all, “reach” also can mean that these schools are a reach for ANYONE who applies due to their very low admit rate and so while in that instance, you may be in the ballpark of the stats of admitted students, even highly qualified applicants are denied due to the limited slots available. So, for those schools, they must be considered a reach due to the unpredictable odds of admission.</p>
<p>Match (ballpark/target) schools are those that are in your “ballpark”, ones where you have a decent chance of being admitted but are not a sure thing. In these instances, your stats more closely fit the ones of accepted students or at least fall within a REALISTIC range, though in some cases here, you are at the lower range of accepted students but at least they have accepted a some students fitting your profile and there is a realistic chance you may get in. These schools also don’t have as low of an admit rate as the reach schools. You cannot count on these schools, but shooting for these is reasonable and often is where most kids end up. We want to make sure we find some “fits” for you that match both your college criteria, as well as your stats. These schools will be important. You may want about 4 in this category. </p>
<p>Safety (like lies) schools are the ones where I believe you will have little problem being admitted. Your stats are above 75% of those who are admitted. The acceptance rate at the school is not as low as the reach and match schools on your list. Your safety schools are still very good schools and are “safe” only in terms of your chances. Everyone needs these schools on their list. We want to make sure that your safety schools are ones you would be happy to attend. Put energy into finding ones you truly like. </p>
<hr>
<p>I don't know that a safety is a total "100% guarantee" but what it should be is highly likely given the range of students admitted and the selectivity rate in relation to your student. </p>
<p>I hope this helps.</p>
<p>PS, I don't know anything about your child's college criteria or interests but just going by the most basic stats you gave, schools like Skidmore, Goucher, Rollins, St. Lawrence, Lehigh, Wheaton, Penn State, UVM, etc. could be considered safeties for him. I am not suggesting these schools, but rather giving them as a point of reference of the "level" of schools that are likely admits for him.</p>
<p>bethievt:</p>
<p>I think everyone has slightly different definitions of what a safety is. Given your description of your son, I think he can probably consider a school a safety even if it doesn't accept 100% of kids, provided that it DOES accept close to 100% of kids above a certain SAT/GPA function.</p>
<p>I think you can see this graphically on some of the Naviance sites that people have linked to here, that show a college's acceptances and rejections for applicants from a single HS over a 4-5 year period, plotted against the students' weighted GPAs and SAT Is. What you'll see is that two colleges may have the same acceptance rate and middle 50% range for admitted students, but college A will essentially accept all applicants who would be well above its 75th %ile, and college B will pick and choose even among the candidates with the strongest numbers. So I would consider college A a safety for your kid, but not college B. College A could well be your home state university's main campus.</p>
<p>Bethievt: if the 2 safeties your S is considering are rolling admissions schools - then definitely apply EARLY. If a school is rolling admissions, it will have more opportunity to admit students (& possibly looser standards) early in the fall. As they make admit decisions (& "roll" those decision letters out the door), they will reach a point where they have to slow down on the acceptances, or not offer any at all; sometimes regardless of the caliber of the student applying.
Almost all rolling admissions schools will reach that point (no more offers of admission) at SOME time in the admission cycle...however some may reach it earlier in the winter and others might still consider applications until late spring! You can only really know if you ask the Adm. office at each school. If your S's safeties are rolling, ask how quickly the class was built last year and try to plan accordingly with getting the application in.</p>
<p>It sounds to me like you're doing everything exactly right! I'll be shocked if you don't have two excellent options all locked up by the end of December. Good job.</p>
<p>Thank you all. Your replies illustrate the different views on CC as to what constitutes "safety", but I can tell you are all speaking from experience and are well-informed, just have slightly different perspectives.</p>
<p>His "safety" schools are not "Rolling" but do have Early Action, which should tell us whether or not he's "in" before RD deadlines. He's investigated and visited others with higher acceptance rates, but likes these two the best (Lewis & Clark and Goucher) because of their incredible International programs and proximity to great cities. He can hopefully work up excitement about the others if he needs to.</p>
<p>Bethie, as I said, I don't know all of your son's stats or credentials, and generally don't like to JUST go by SATs and GPA but even so, since that is all I know about him, I do believe his safeties are appropriate ones. I mean, I had no idea he was applying to Goucher and as you can see, I suggested that one as an example of a likely admit for your son. I think you are on track. As well, remember to have matches that are target/ballpark/realistic schools that are between the safeties and reaches. I think you guys are on the right track.</p>
<p>This may be slightly off topic, but in addition to mentioning/not mentioning other comparable schools when asked on an app, should DD apply EA to as many of targeted schools on her list that allow it, so she can get her acceptances in a row before getting far into spring semester of SR yr? Do schools that allow only one EA app state that somewhere in their literature? Since EA is nonbinding, seems a student gains an advantage in using it whenever possible for planning. She will need merit aid for her LAC choices; her state school safeties are prepaid.</p>