<p>Over the course of the last few months
I have had parents of students who need aid discuss how without aid, their student cannot afford such n such a university.
The students are academically qualified according to Common Data Sets etc.</p>
<p>Over the same period I have heard parents of students, also academically qualified, lament how need-blind "isn't fair" and that their student should get an advantage since their family will be a full pay family...and "shouldn't their student get some kind of advantage for that..." (is this a matter an attitude of entitlement? or just good business?)</p>
<p>Any thoughts?
Given the economy, the risks of saddling kids with huge loans etc, and the question of whether taking loans is wise: Should then students of full pay be given an admit preference? </p>
<p>I have felt the need-blind was a great thing because it levels the playing field in at least one category in a crazy system of admissions. Another parent told me I was naiive and that colleges are business and that there is no need blind admissions.</p>
<p>This is ridiculous. The small handful of colleges that are need-blind in admissions have made a concerted effort to reach that stage. Their alumni and university corporations have reached a stage to offer this. For outsiders (applicants and their parents) to say their kids are discriminated because FA needing families are on an equal plane is preposterous.</p>
<p>However, there are two types of need-blind admissions schools. Those who are need-blind and also “meet full need” colleges like Yale and Harvard and their monstrous endowments. There are also other need-blind admissions schools who can not state that they will meet the full demonstrated need of its admitted students.</p>
<p>For the vast vast majority of colleges that are need aware, a full pay student has an enormous advantage. The small handful (4-5) colleges that are rich enough to be need blind and meet full need – they’re to be castigated? Baloney. I’d say to the criticisers: Take your rich kid and apply to the local private college or shut up.</p>
<p>As to the skeptical parent about fake “need blind” colleges, ask if he/she knows what the FA budget is for Harvard and Yale. Their endowments are about $40 billion combined.</p>
<p>(1) there are very few schools that even claim to be truly need blind
(2) if a student comes from a family that can afford to pay $50,000 per year for their kid to go to college, that kid has already had tons of advantages that have directly contributed to their ability to be accepted to colleges. These may include some of the following: living in an area with good public schools or going to private schools, not having to carry a job during the school year, getting tutoring if needed, prep courses for standardized tests, music lessons, the ability to pay the fees associated with sports teams or academic clubs, parents who are educated and make education a priority at home, living in a safe neighborhood, attending summer programs, owning a good calculator, etc.</p>
<p>So to sum it up, full pay kids have a direct advantage at many schools and a strong but indirect advantage in their application package for any school.</p>
<p>^ Yes I agree,
and didn’t have the courage to tell the full pay parent all that^</p>
<p>The parent who said I was naiive is a full pay parent as well and said that she believes kids not checking the FinAid box have a clear advatage in admissions…which made me sad…</p>
<p>fogfog: as I said, not applying for FA does confer advantages for many schools. But to extrapolate that thinking onto the few need-blind schools is needlessly paranoid.</p>
<p>Seriously, just how stupid and rude ARE these people? There’s a recession, people are out of work, and they’re complaining about how it’s not enough of an advantage to be able to pay for their kid’s undergrad education without taking out loans or selling their other children into slavery? It would be foolish enough to do that online, anonymously. To do that in person, to other parents who need to weigh aid packages, is a whole ‘nother level of stupidity. Our family is full-pay, and I don’t even mention that when talking to friends. COMPLAIN about it? Give me a freakin’ break.</p>
<p>I’m trying to channel my inner Miss Manners, but for now I think I will just have a nice cup of tea. :)</p>
<p>That doesn’t even make any sense to me. That parent is saying it isn’t fair that they don’t get an advantage. The reality if no parent has an advantage then it is fair.</p>
<p>Most schools are need-aware and these parents have an advantage at these schools, they just don’t have an advantage at all schools because some schools are need-blind.</p>
<p>I’ve heard the argument that need-blind schools are not really need-blind. I personally believe that if a school says it is need-blind then it is, but that is just my opinion.</p>
<p>These might just be parents caught up in the highly emotionally charged process of college admissions and they were speaking emotionally and not rationally. I think you did the right thing in not trying to argue with them. Down the road they might realize how lucky they are to be able to afford this for their kids.</p>
<p>I agree that you are naive. As mini has pointed out on these boards numerous times, there is no such thing as truly need-blind. Otherwise, how is it that the # of financially needy students does not change year after year after year?</p>
<p>Even Williams – one of the dozen or so supposed ‘need-blind-meets-full-need’ colleges – adds bonus points to an application if the student is low income. Think about it for a second…how is that need-blind in any sense? Or, programs like Questbridge,from which HYPSM recuits applicants. By definition, these are low-ec kids and colleges are purposely accepting them. It is not a need-blind process.</p>
<p>But to your wealthy friends, their kids have had ALL the benefits of life, including the ability to pad their resume…how many students can perform Intel science projects when they have to work as a bagger at the local grocery store to be able to eat?</p>
<p>For example, taken from a speech to Stanford frosh (note allthe items that REQUIRE wealth):</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Do poor schools even have piano or lacrosse?</p>
<p>There seems o be a lack of understanding that many have to pay in full to keep the doors open. Would it be perfect if that were not the case? Sure. Is it realistic? No.</p>
<p>As an affluent parent with a child in the current applicant pool of several needs-blind schools, I believe in what these institutions are trying to do, and I don’t expect a tip toward my child because I can pay.</p>
<p>What an absurd notion and horrible idea, yikes.</p>
<p>Being able to afford the price tag in a first place is enough of a “tip.” Some people don’t realize how hard it is to get ahead when you grow up without the same opportunities. Student loans, too, are a beast.</p>
<p>I appreciate everyones thoughts here and that I didn’t need to jump into a “flame retardant” suit for posing the problem I faced listening to these parents.</p>
<p>Perhaps this parent’s thoughts were just from the stress and emotionally charged…as Pea has suggested.
And knowing this family IRL, they do have enormous enormous advantages as BlueBayou suggests…</p>
<p>I didn’t feel like I could help this parent untangle their thoughts and words as they believe that their “full pay” subsidizes others who get aid…perhaps even my child.
I don’t think the parent realizes how it sounds to a parent like me who hopes their student will get some help…</p>
<p>Even if all schools’ admissions could be truly need blind, which would be wonderful, until all schools can also meet full need without huge amounts of loans in aid packages, all of those need blind admissions won’t mean much if a student is accepted but can’t pay the bills.</p>
<p>My thoughts on “need-blind” schools is that their hearts are in the right place, but in the end they each are as need-blind as they can afford to be.</p>
<p>Let me just throw this out there. I go to a private school where many kids get money - of the many kids 99% of the kids are either spanish or black. I’m a middle class white kid who attends the school and is top 10%. However, if you recieve money from our school there is no grade point average that you have to keep or anything. I believe that it is increadibly unfair that my school is paying 16k a year for a kid to attend the school who has a C average to attend. I attend the school, get straight A’s, and still pay full price. If the kids who are recieving a full ride can’t keep straight A’s, kick them out. I’m not making any judgements here, but honestly it is unfair to give a kid a full ride to a school who is not willing to work. I think the money should be divied up to students based on GPA. You do not deserve the money the school is giving you if you can’t even work to get good grades. I believe my school should kick every kid that is recieving aid out who is not within the top 10% of the class and use the money to reward those who work.</p>
<p>I totally agree with UVAorBust. Distribute the money depending on the GPA/Scores and re distribute each year based on GPA. This motivates kids to do well in college. It seems you have to be less fortunate to have an edge on the college process. Has anyone researched who are the people who give back to their universities? I don’t think its the low income kid, they are too busy making and holding on to their money but its the people who have “old money” who give away. I feel kids needing FA are given way too much importance. There are community colleges, state universities. Whatever happened to spend/borrow only as much as you can afford to pay off. Have we not learnt anything from this housing crisis…Dos’nt everyone say it does not matter where you go its what you do with the education?</p>
<p>@ UVAorBust – I commend you for your grades but why does this bother you so much? It’s a decision the school has made, that’s all.</p>
<p>@junior_mom – look at this from Harvard’s point of view, as an example. Harvard doesn’t want to have a class full of rich kids, they want a diverse class. The professors at Harvard don’t only want to teach to rich kids, they want to be able to teach the best and the brightest, regardless of ability to pay. That is one of the reasons for need-blind admissions.</p>
<p>Admissions should be based on merit… But most schools aren’t need-blind. Those that are are so rich that they don’t care about 50 k per person anyway.</p>