Should the number of college applications be limited?

Applying to College
41

Interesting topic, and one my wife and I were just discussing given many of the disappointing results reported on CC since last week.

For the kid in the NYT story, seems like nobody (except for preppedparent) is acknowledging fact that he was an URM. If my older daughter (who is an ORM) who had similar stats was a URM, I wouldn’t be surprised if she had run the table, too.

But it can’t be purely “merit based” as preppedparent suggests, because…sorry, but I think it’s fair to say that the ORMs would start to dominate and no one would be happy about that, either. Tough to out-parent Tiger Moms & Dads.

In our household, we are thankfully past the stage of worrying about any of this, thank goodness. But I think future applicants SHOULD start considering limiting things. We have to start counseling kids to limit their “reaches” if their stats don’t warrant it. A few of the “I got rejected everywhere” posts revealed app profiles that indicate that the kid was NEVER going to be a strong candidate at many of schools s/he applied to. Where did the kids in these cases get the impression that they were a strong candidate?

But who will enforce the limits? The kids? The parents? The HS? The Common App? The College Board?

Curious to me that people are calling on the colleges to expand their classes. This strikes me as misplaced. The more selective schools pride themselves on having good student/teacher ratios, right? So how does expanding each incoming class support that? Not to mention that schools have a limited number of beds/classrooms/resources to serve their students.

I don’t buy the “people need to apply to a zillion schools because they need options they can afford” argument either. Frankly, it’s pretty easy to find affordable schools if you are open to attending schools that might not be among the usual suspects. Or schools “beneath” whatever tier higher performing kids think they “deserve” to attend. Apply to schools where you are in the TOP echelon of applicants and the money will most likely be there. But instead, kids apply to all the Ivies with a 32 ACT and some “really good recommendations”.

Perhaps a larger and just as important a question is why are we pushing the myth that “you have to go to college” so much to our kids? Is there no respect or value into going into the trades? I know plenty of electricians and plumbers who seem to be making a lot of money and enjoying great quality of life.

FWIW, my older kid (the NMF-level one) applied to 12 schools. She went 1 for 4 with the super selectives and 8 for 8 with the rest (which represented a range of selectivity). She chose a full-ride at school that is Top 10 in her major of choice over the super selective/prestige school.

ETA: I missed that the kid in the NYT story was got “full-ride” offers even at Ivies (which offer need-based aid only). Which means there is a socio-economic component to his story. Which matters. I’m not taking anything away from the kid…not at all. Good for him. But what I’m saying is that having those factors MATTERS. A LOT.

42

I understand giving some preference to URM over other kids (especially if economically disadvantaged, I have more qualms with a wealthy URM who had private school, test prep, etc getting preference) but if 2 kids with roughly the same tippy top stats apply to 20 schools and one gets in to all 20 and the other gets in to none or one and the only difference is socio-economic background it does raise questions about the process. The non-dis-advantaged kids start to wonder if there is really anything they can do to get in or to move out of “lottery” territory.

Lots of people on CC like to say things like “those schools are a lottery for everyone” but clearly they are not. Every year there is a small handful of kids that get in everywhere they apply, that doesn’t happen in an actual lottery. They were not playing the lottery. Maybe they, or the adults assisting them, just didn’t know they weren’t playing the lottery but already had a sure thing.

43

Yes, totally. I’ll have more to say about this later, and may open a separate thread regarding reform of the process. Thank you, OP.

44

My kid’s private prep school limits supported applications to 9, with a fee if students exceed this—and apparently few ever do, or only by one or two if they do. IMHO, the problem is that many of these “20+ schools” kids all seem to believe they are too good to attend their state flagship or equivalent, and instead cast a wide net for a dozen or more schools in an effort to extract more prestige from their choice. I hate to tell them, but likely their state flagship’s honors program has more accomplished students, and better faculty, than their #16 choice they end up attending for far more money.

45

@ucbalumnus That doesn’t make any sense. You “fit” at a university that meets your individual needs, whether this pertains to the school’s social scene, academic excellence, cost, or any other factor. The prestige factor alone doesn’t provide anything but bragging rights. Certainly, a student may feel that a prestigious university is right for them due to various reasons, but there are numerous cases of people applying to every top 30 school because of the name alone, hoping to get lucky.

46

There is a field on the common app that you check to say that you have waived your right to read your teacher and GC letters of recommendation. If you don’t check that box then many colleges know that your letters of recommendation may have been written in a less than candid manner.

Would it be so awful if the common app also had a counter for how many colleges that the kid is applying to using the app? This gives the colleges an idea of whether the kid is targeting select schools or shotgunning or trophy hunting.

Of course future students could go around this by using coalition app or applying directly to schools without using common app, or they’d just apply to a lot of schools and not care that the colleges knew that they were one in a hundred.

47

While the number of applicants to elite schools far exceeds the number of applicants, a handful are admitted leaving students too think it could be me. Unless it is possible to eliminate large numbers of potential applicants to schools, perhaps there could be a portal is some sort whereas unqualified applicants are screened out and are notified immediately of their rejection and without appeal. Perhaps that would reduce the number of poor applicants. Perhaps students should be encouraged to not apply if the school is too expensive even with a specific amount of financial aid that maybe would be provided. Finally, It should be made vigorously and regularly and repeatedly that life is not over if rejected by an elite school.

Perhaps, there could be more emphasis on the next tier and other really good private and public schools with greater admissions. Maybe there could be threads such as which AP should I take, rate my schedule, which AP is somehow hookiest for schools and other inquiries about how to increase the chance of acceptance by class selection. Maybe another tread on starting clubs, businesses and nonprofits by children to enhance resumes. A concern about these efforts is documenting the success of the activity or getting it official!y approved by the school.

Exasperating! Students are determined to amass lots of APs and perfectish GPAs, but its unknown what content was learned, whether knowledge was added to or expanded, whether executive functions developed and applied, whether learning was fun, interesting, energizing,expanded curiosity and the desire to learn more, etc. It seems like students are collecting chips to apply to their next educational venture, but their souls aren’t engaged. Where are the life long learners?

Practical considerations. Colleges have a limited amount of classroom spaces to assign classes. Some are auditoriums holding many students. Some are labs with 25 or so spaces to conduct experiments demonstrating something relevant. There are many sizes of classrooms that are attached to different colleges or department a that limits what is taught. There are also seminar rooms that are quite small. Literally, then, there are relatively few spaces generally and are even fewer to accommodate more or increased size classes. By comparison, how many live where more people could live safely and happily.

Then there are faculty and staff. Graduate and research faculty teach higher level and fewer classes with relatively small class sizes. The teach general information about a topic or professional skills related to research and specific professions. They also serve on thesis and dissertation committees, develop and coordinate programs, conduct research, supervise interns and so much more. Teaching is a relatively low priority to these faculty to the institution.

Undergraduate faculty may teacher a few more or larger sections of classes. They will also have non teaching responsibilities. Teaching at every level seems so easy until you have done it. Class sizes may be limited by what the faculty can dependably teach to students.

All groups of faculty are responsible for teaching but are limited by class/program content which limits the number of students that can be taught successfully. Space and faculty limitations constrain the number of additional students that can be taught. Budget realities limit the number of faculty at any institution. It is simply not possible to admit and teach more than a handful of additional students.

Rather than limiting applications or expanding already tight institutional resources, the best plan for proving high caliber educations would involve teaching applicants that they are not doomed, failures, worthless, devastated emotionally, an embarrassment to family and friends and all those terrible messages that students receive by denial of admission by the elite or dream school. This country has thousands of the excellent postsecondary schools. Further, life exists outside of the Northeastern states. So rather than lots applying to few schools, let’s inform students can receive a very good education from schools allover the countr

48

Forgot to include this thought in my post #40…

It may seem like a small thing, but I think changing the language around college applications will help EVERYONE approach this in a more sane manner.

My younger daughter’s school uses the categories “Reach, Possible, Likely” instead of “Reach, Match, Safety”.

I truly think that this language can help people take a more realistic approach — any lessen the “shock” when results don’t go the way people hoped.

“Safety” has negative connotations that “Likely” does not. It’s tough to be thrilled to attend a school that has been characterized as a “Safety”…meaning you didn’t get in anywhere else.

And even using “Possible” instead of “Match” tempers expectations for colleges in a mid-tier of admit rate. Calling something a “Match” implies a high chance of admittance, IMO. Whereas “Possible” is a little less certain (which I think tempers expectations in a healthy way.

49

I guess I’d have to say no considering how crazy the admissions decisions seem to be. But I do wish that people would exert some self-control and limit themselves.

50

@SevenDad - couple things.

  1. You are so right about the trades. Since 2008, it seems there are so many college grads working service jobs just above or at minimum wage. Meanwhile, on my community Facebook forum, every three days people are asking for plumber recommendations. I just had a plumber to my house recently. He's probably in his 30s, second generation family business, and he told me that, while the demand is there, there are no young plumbers coming up behind him in the business. He said "one guy with a truck" could easily pull in 100K a year. My young cousin went to school to become a diesel mechanic and, after about 10 years in various jobs now has landed himself a great government job. We need tradespeople too, and you can make good money doing those jobs. Heck, my hairdresser drives a BMW and owns a house at the Jersey shore.
  2. I have a rising senior. Any chance you would oversee his college selection process? ;)) Sounds like you and your daughter did a fantastic job.
51

@donnaleighg Or how will Brown fill its crew team? Athletic recruits are given special consideration EVERYWHERE.

Oh, and Villanova’s point guard is an academic All-American who will graduate in three years.

52

Why would you artificially pick a limit?

Everyone has their own reasons for picking their personal number.