<p>Far more people get 1 to 4s rather than 5s. Even though the range of 5s is larger, it reflects less people. So there would not be a point, since getting a 5 already distinguishes you enough. So, although 24,586 people earned 5s on the AP English Lit exam last year, that’s only about 7.4%. Last time I checked, being in the top 7.4% was pretty distinguished.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to know what percentage of 5s are low-scoring 5s and what percentage are in the high-5 range. Then it would make it easier to figure if something like this would be feasible.</p>
<p>I agree, finding the range of 5 and this and that is important to analyze. However, this only analyzes for the group that has already taken the course with the 5 in mind, not a 6. It’s noteworthy to consider that probably about half of AP students don’t take the AP exam seriously. Not a statistic I’ve read, but something I’ve generally felt out in each of my AP classes. And by half, I mean the students literally don’t care, and probably end up with a 1 or 2. </p>
<p>When I took my AP Chemistry class, almost 3/4 of the class entered the exam room only looking to write their name down, draw pictures by bubbling in random answers, and going to sleep. This anecdote proves two VERY important points. The first point being that THREE FOURTHS of the class doodled the entire exam. Why so many? MY TEACHER. My teacher has a Ph.D. in Biochem & Chem, and used to be a professor at a university. At our school, he is a horrible AP teacher, and most students just take it for the easy grade/GPA booster (not hard to get an A in his class). However, NO ONE EVER GETS A 5. Last year, I was THE ONLY STUDENT to get a 5 in the class. Typical scores were from 1 & 2, my classmate who got into NYU, Boston College, William & Mary, UVa, Northwestern, got a 3. Why did she get a 3? Cause she’s stupid? Certainly not. This point proves VERY greatly how the curving is weighed more than it should be, and why many colleges TRULY (not b/c of money) don’t think AP courses will satisfy for their introductory classes. It shows how SO many students, because they don’t take it seriously (primarily due to their teacher), create such a huge curve that should not be given. 3/4 of my class pretty much increased the curve deviation for NO reason.</p>
<p>The second point this anecdote proves, is a comparison point. Compare that to another REGULAR high school (not advanced or for the “gifted” like TJ), that has a great AP Chem teacher. Why is that teacher’s turnout rate so high? Why is my teacher’s average AP Chem score a 1.xx, while another teacher’s is a 4.xx (my neighbor school has a teacher with consistent avg AP score of 4.xx)? Is it because they have smart students and we have stupid students (I don’t live in the ghetto)? Certainly not. It is because of the TEACHER & the class.</p>
<p>Yeah, but without the curve it would be far harder to excel and get a 5.</p>
<p>Let me give you an example: AP Micro/Macro-economics.</p>
<p>I took AP Micro/Macroeconomics this year. Pretty much how the tests worked and the overall grade, really, was that every exam we took were literally pulled from AP exams or were produced to replicate AP styled questions. When we took the tests, the teacher graded it AP style. So ~65% would get us an A(5), and on down the line. Throughout the year, I VERY CONSISTENTLY earned ~40% on ALLLLLLL of my tests, and I mean ALLLLLLLLLLLLL. I hated economics and I never studied the book ONCE, and I truly mean that. I never read a single chapter. Her powerpoint notes were technically plagiarized, she stole them from a website (I found out by googling it). I was am VERY poorly educated in economics, CERTAINLY did not perform work comparable to a similar class at a university, yet I probably got a 4 on the exam doing such little work. I got 40% all year, which is an F, yet still got a B+ in the class.</p>
<p>Now imagine if you had a serious AP teacher, the teacher would run it the same way in terms of what kind of test he would give. The good AP teacher would give AP styled questions for each unit test, BUT* the AP teacher would NOT grade it AP style. ALLL of those 40% grades that earned me that B in the class, would have flunked me out of the class if I had a serious AP teacher. All those 40% grades would not have been nice B’s, they would have been 40%, F. If I had a serious AP teacher for economics, I would have been FORCED to maintain at least a B status, which would mean I would HAVE to get at least 80% on all my of tests, not 40%. Therefore, by getting 80%+ on my tests, I would in turn likely get 80%+ on the actual AP Exam, which translates into a 5. However, with my 40%, if I just studied a TEENSY bit, I could get a 5. Both teachers would have gotten me a 5, but only 1 teacher would have gotten me a 6. And the step from the 5->6 would not have been great, it would just take a more serious teacher.</p>
<p>Circular, you’re looking at the curve too much. COMPLETELY remove the curve, and analyze it in that respect. Whatever PERCENT you get right on the exam, let that be the actual grade you get in the class. That is how MOST serious AP teachers treat their class, I CAN GUARANTEE IT. Any AP course where the teacher is known to produce a high average AP score, probably utilizes the standard of giving out tests that are exactly like the AP exam, but grading it without a single curve. You have to completely disregard the curve, the curve is too fallacious.</p>
<p>And in the condition where a teacher does teach the class that way, then technically EVERY student who is a B or better student in the class will get a 6, as a B in the class would mean a consistent 80%+ on tests, which since tests are actual AP exams, then they technically have gotten 80%+ on AP exams, which means they got an easy 5, borderline 6 if it were a score.</p>
<p>
I agree with this. Getting a 5 in itself already distinguishes you from most of the students in the nation. There really isn’t a point to adding a 6 to the grading scale.
That may be the case in your school, but at my school that’s not the case. Many teachers at my HS produce high scores but they don’t expose us to official AP practice material until a couple weeks before the exam.</p>
<p>I SUPPORT DIS.</p>
<p>We should give 6 to the kids who get 100%.
Then, you will have your “true distinction” EngineerHead and the rest of us will have the satisfaction and knowledge of knowing that no one will ever, ever get a 6.</p>
<p>If colleges are willing to accept “60% - 100%” then the numbers mean nothing.</p>
<p>I was meticulous in stating that “most,” as I knew people love to point out exceptions. Exceptions are fine, and your class produced high scores, but just as general trend, if teachers did that classes scores would be better. Hey, if your class produces high scores as well, go for it, there’s no one way to teach, but AS LONG as it’s effective and is serious. If all teachers utilized the style your teacher does, even though they wouldn’t give AP questions, I would bet scores are bound to be higher.</p>
<p>Imagine this. If every class in the US (far fetched, but this is the ideal standard to curve the scores, NOT the current standard) were taught in the same manner as your teacher teaches, or my teacher teaches, I bet there would be more 5’s than there are 1’s or 2’s. In my class, I know that there are more 5’s than 1’s and 2’s put together.</p>
<p>By saying “but this is the ideal standard to curve the scores, NOT the current standard,” what I mean is this. The current standard of curving is based off of thousands of students who don’t do well, NOT because the material is beyond their capability, but rather because of their instruction on the material. Also, there’s thousands more who are seniors who simply don’t care to do well on the exam because they’re seniors. Then there are thousands more who simply don’t do well because they don’t plan on accepting the credit. Then there are thousands more who simply don’t do well because they only took the course for a GPA booster because they heard the class was a joke. All these students make the curve much higher than it should be, and thereby ACTUALLY cause the top students to underachieve, as opposed to overachieving.</p>
<p>Adding a score of 6 would be analogous to year 9/10 high school students who are EXTREMELY capable, but don’t do jack in any of their classes because all of their classes are “academic” classes (meaning non-advanced) and what many consider to be “insulting.” But the moment they hit year 11/12, all of a sudden they’re loaded with AP’s and they begin to shine, and they begin to get grades in their AP class that are even HIGHER than the grades they got year 9/10 in their academic classes! The analogy being that, MANY students who get 5’s are fully capable of getting 6’s. They only get 5’s because that’s all they know they can get, that is the max. Not because it is beyond capable. Thoughts?</p>
<p>It’s much like this as well, consider this:
Across the nation, a variety of grading systems are used, 10 point scale, 7 point scale, 6 point scale, etc. Obviously, an A is much easier to obtain on a 10 point scale (90-100) than a 7 point scale (93-100), which is easier to obtain than on a 6 point scale (94-100), etc. However, why is it that the relative ratio of A:B:C:D:F is the same in counties that utilize the 10 point scale versus counties that utilize the 6 point scale (could be argued teachers make it easier on 6 point scales, but I doubt it)? Is it because students in counties utilizing the 6 point scale are smarter and more intelligent? I don’t think that would be a very arguable point. Moreover, it’s primarily because of what the students know they need. It’s because of what they’re used to. The students in the 10 point scale know they just need a 90 to get an A, and they do so. The students in the 6 point scale are used to 94 being an A, and they make sure they get that 94+ so that they can get their A’s. It’s not because one is smarter than the other.</p>
<p>EDIT: If you want to argue that, as of now, the amount getting generic-6’s is small, then go ahead because it’s true. However, it should be realized that the moment a score of 6 were added, the TRUE achievers, that were previously limited to only getting a 5, will come out and they will compete for that 6 (60% being the false achievers, 85% being the TRUE achievers). Students will come out and start making sure they revolve around that 6.</p>
<p>No, please. It’s tough enough to get a 5 as it is - don’t get influenced by the arrogant people who say that AP Exams are easy. Trust me, they’re not, and my AP grades average out to be a 4.8 thus far.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t mean to imply that it would be EASY. Rather, that it is very achievable.</p>
<p>I think College Board should “lower” the AP score rubic to a 1-4 scale. That way we can have nicer curves. :)</p>
<p>Its not an exception. Every AP class I’ve taken thus far has curved material that is purely from an AP test just beecause it is not directly out of the textbook and we cant really be graded on that. Your grade in a class does not equal your grade on an AP test. I dont know any classes that do it like this. If it were the case, most kids would have 70-.
also, i’ve heard, in many colleges that aps are harder. with the exception of like the elite/top20/uber grade deflation schools, in which case credit wouldnt be given.
You’re probably super smart and are just bitter that someone less smart than you could get the same score. So sorry we cant distinguish you from the rest of us. maybe they’ll put a gold sticker next to your score.</p>
<p>Why stop at 6?! Just move the scale up to 7. Then we could change the name of the AP tests to IB.</p>
<p>Are you people ____ serious? Are you afraid that people who are unqualified and got 5s on AP exams are going to jump into ‘your’ intermediate classes as freshmen and somehow hurt you? Or are you actually so insecure that a top 7% score is inadequate for shielding your ego against the terrible rigors of other online posters?
This is one of the most elitist threads I have ever seen. It’s like you people are looking at a TV remote, saying, “Hey, I really know how to use this remote, and I could even still figure it out with a few superfluous buttons. Therefore, though it helps no one, we should make it way harder to use!”
It’s. Dis. Gus. Ting.
Next thing you know you’re going to be asking for the ACT to add the scores rather than average, because a 142 is crap compared to a 143.</p>
<p>You trying to turn AP into IB?</p>
<p>Amen upennster</p>
<p>mrbh12, I’m in no way trying to place myself on a pedestal. You’re coming off as more conceited than I am.</p>
<p>MANY classes operate in such manner. Tests for each unit consist of a multiple choice section and a free-response section, each with calculator and non-calculator portions to simulate the AP exam. The FRQ’s are graded in the manner that AP grades their FRQ’s, except they are not curved/weighted, so while a 4/9 may be good on Calc BC exam, it is not good in class since it is an F. Again, I know of MANY classes that operate this way. Taking one test and quiz for each unit in this manner, as is done at my school, prepares you immensely for the AP exam and is BEYOND doable.</p>
<p>No need to be condescending, mrbh12. It’s simply a unique suggestion that not many people have really considered, and I thought I’d make it a thread for people to discuss and debate since I was pondering about it.</p>
<p>I don’t think the 6 would distinguish students “from the rest of us.” The primary purpose of adding a 6 would be to increase the rigors of the class, and by doing so the general AP student body will better simulate a true university learning experience by achieving a 6. I think it will increase competition and students will begin aiming for the new score, trying to beat out others, and it will become the new “5.” The new “standard,” if you will.</p>
<p>EDIT</p>
<p>upennster, what foolish remarks. Oh, um, I’m not accepting ANY of my AP credits for which I received 5…? So my pushing about this idea has nothing to do with me, or to do with “elites” if you want to call them that or anything else along those lines. So… thank you for that nonsense. Mark my words, the point is to increase the rigors and standards of AP, as the rigors of today’s 5 is NOT complementary of an A in the same course at a decent university. Most people would attest to this. No need to get heated, maintain your maturity.</p>
<p>EDIT</p>