<p>I’m also confused by the direction this thread is taking. What sort of professionals suggested a non-techie kid major in engineering? Were they engineers? </p>
<p>You are still left with the issue of getting admitted to that list. The competition will have more math-sci activities in school, including competiton level. All you have listed is COSMOS. If there’s more that points to specific experiences for eng or econ/finance, it needs to be highlighted. I wish you the best, but I wonder if a professional wouldn’t be the right move, after all. Getting into top schools is not a matter of interest and stats, topped by a bright essay. Adcoms look for, among other things, a pattern of engagement relevant to your ideas for a major.</p>
<p>To the OP. Did you hear that some finance firms LIKE the analytical skills that engineers have? That may be true… But that is VERY different than expecting a student to LEARN these sorts of skills because they choose an engineering major. Engineering majors need to HAVE analytical skills to be successful in the courses for that major. If your son is not analytical, I would strongly suggest that he NOT pursue an engineering major on his quest to work In finance.</p>
<p>The key differentiator is that you are talking about schools with national reputations and national student bodies, as opposed to schools that have California-centric reputations and (naturally) California-centric student bodies. Whether that’s a pro or a con is personal preference.</p>
<p>It seems like prestige could be an important factor to you. One shortcut to creating a list of schools to apply to might be to look at the US News rankings of national universities. This list contains both public and private universities. Just march down the list from the top and see if the schools appeal to your son and his interests. (This will also let you see where all the UCs rank, relative to other universities throughout the country.)</p>
<p>Some may argue this list is not perfect in how the rankings are decided. There is another one out there that brings the liberal arts colleges in as well.</p>
<p>Just a little story. We visited Duke in 7h grade for the TIP award. We went through the list (USN&WR) and visited mostly in the NE in Jr year (nice family vacation during Spring break). We had nice, impressive presentations from all the schools. Visited the state flagships at the end of 2nd semester-Summer of Jr year. Started to get mailings by the boat load that Summer. Had list of about 7-8 schools. UChicago got his attention, applied EA, visited around Thanksgiving, was accepted by Dec 15, only applied to one other school besides safety state flagship at our insistence (later in the year accepted at both, but out of the radar by then). Had very relaxed, non-anxious last semester of High School. Graduated from UChicago with an opposite end of the spectrum major than originally intended (to be fair, could have graduated with the other major too but UChicago only lists one major in your diploma). Let’s say he’s well rounded education wise. He started a very good job 3 weeks after graduation in June. Notice how the “we” fades and the “he” starts to take over. No private counselor.</p>
<p>Does the list of colleges in the original post reflect a desire for prestige, or a lack of knowledge about alternatives.</p>
<p>Rather than spend money on a counselor, you could buy one of the college guides like Peterson’s, Princeton, etc. U.S. News 2012 Edition “Best Colleges” costs under $10 at a book store or online.</p>
<p>There are other good books: I still like Loren Pope’s “Colleges that Change Lives” and “Beyond the Ivies.”</p>
<p>Do you live in California? It almost seems as if you have either Ivies or CA state schools. There are many other choices.</p>
<p>Does your son plan on doing any visiting?</p>
<p>(Our older two applied to 4-6 schools, as I said, but our best experience was with our youngest, who applied to two reasonable schools early action, got into both, and knew where she was going by January of senior year.)</p>
<p>Dr G, it’s an example of a parent writing only a few words of assessment, from his or her perspective. Top colleges do not often stop to pick up kids based on “raw material.” The stars have to be mightily lined up for a kid with “no obvious direction.” I suspect that poster’s daughter was superior in math-sci; we don’t know how far she had taken math, incl DE; she made it to a regional chem competition, which implies some activity, she may have been brilliant in her ecology activities. And, her LoRs may have glowed about her perspective, goals and anayltical thinking. I read STEM apps, as well as other majors, incl broad “finance.” Kids are competing in a monstrous pool of successful applicants, in terms of academics, experiences and personal qualities. Should OP be discouraged? No. Should that list be so top heavy? No.</p>
I’d go a step further, and suggest that if your son is not analytical, that he NOT pursue an career in finance.</p>
<p>I agree that the current list is top heavy, and missing some schools that would give the OP’s son an “Ivy” experience but would also be a more likely admit- Tufts, WashU, and Rice would be on my my list of suggestions. Dartmouth, although small, might also be a possibility because of his ethnicity. Dartmouth welcomes diversity, as some of the northeastern LACs have had a harder time attracting Asian students in the past. (Granted, that is changing.)</p>
<p>Wait a minute. A lot of successful people in finance majored in English. Henry Paulson majored in English is one example. Another succesful hedge fund guy, which I forgot his name at the moment, majored in Political Science from Cornell.</p>
<p>People can major in English and still be very analytical in their thinking. But people who aren’t analytical should not be in finance. Finance is all about numbers.
My DH was a history major! However, he also is a math wiz, and his foray into finance after graduation was very natural for him.
Without his math ability he would be lousy at his job.</p>
<p>And I have to say that all of the people I have met over the last 30 years that he works with-ALL of them are very analytical and mathematically inclined. But they majored in things all over the map.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if this is even a concern of the OPs son, as he seems to have done well in CalcBC and on the SATII- and a 35 on the ACT. If he wants to pursue either finance or engineering, it seems that he has the ability.</p>
<p>Really, I am not sure OP presented this accurately. I suspect the goal isn’t to hone analytical skills and end up in finance, per se. But to move into entrepreneurship. In that respect, engineering can be a boon to a technical business career. One would then understand the technical/conceptual aspects, the manner in which ideas are assessed, the elements of teamwork, etc. But, engineering studies are rigorous and kids are expected to hit the ground running. </p>
<p>There are plenty of people in “finance” who are not especially analytical, but can follow the formulas and recommendations of the most highly skilled analysts and forecasters. It takes a lot of folks to run those shows.</p>
<p>Let me add something- the only vehicle you have to show adcoms your potential at that school is the CA. Most on his list, if not all, are holistic. It won’t rest on grades and scores.</p>
<p>It’s my kid that just graduated from MIT. I have no idea why she was accepted. Her stats profile was very similar to the OP. She not URM or 1st generation anything. Her involvement in the Ecology club consisted of showing up to some meeting and carting out recycling once in a while. Math through AP Calc BC but nothing extra. Her recommendations were good but along the lines of “really really super smart and nice to others.” She swam HS varsity and club for 4 years but was not recruitable. (She did end up swimming at MIT – a middle of the pack contributor). She sang all 4 years in various school choral groups. Not a soloist. Not the president of anything. I do realize that being a girl was a bit of a boost at MIT. </p>
<p>Less than 10% of the kids who apply to these kinds of schools get in, but someone does. I don’t think it’s helpful to suggest that they should have accomplished more at this point. I think what helps is being able to communicate who you are as a person and what matters to you. And if that strikes a chord with the person reading your app on the day they are reading, well, maybe you are accepted.</p>
<p>We’re going through this again with the next D. Better stats, more leadership positions, but I have no illusions that she will get into the highest level colleges. She might, and if she doesn’t I doubt it will be because she didn’t achieve something else in HS, but she’s got a balanced list. That’s really all you can to with these kids who have done well, tested well, and been involved.</p>
<p>Congrats to your daughter and best wishes for the next one.<br>
Please just understand that she’s not the usual pattern and many kids already feel there’s literally a lottery or that everything is based on stats. In general, a kid has to both articulate his/her interests and show some choices that, for lack of a better term, prove them out. And more. At least, a pattern that parallels the goals. </p>
<p>STEM programs are very important to the top schools and represent huge $ investments. IMO, it’s fine to tell kids, “You never know.” But it should be tempered with information about the competition itself. Especially when a kid is assuming the game is stats and interest only and doesn’t have good safeties.</p>
<p>I actually think that at MIT there was (and may still be) a bit of a bias for students who are good at science, but more well rounded. Our son who we thought would be a better fit at MIT than Harvard, got into Harvard, but not MIT. (He had a leg up from being a legacy, but I also think they thought his one-sidedness may have been a plus there not a minus. At any rate at these very selective schools admissions is very unpredictable. Nearly everyone who applies is qualified and there isn’t room for all of them. (My son chose to attend Carnegie Mellon and never regretted the decision.)</p>
<p>This was posted by the OP. It gives the impression that he/she thinks getting an engineering degree will develop analytical skills so the son can pursue a grad degree in finance. I will say again…pursuing an engineering degree requires analytical skills…it is not a way to DEVELOP those skills. And I’m not convinced it’s the best or only route to a career in finance.</p>
<p>One of the sharpest finance guys I know was summa cum laude…in the Classics. The top employers did not care that he’d spent four years immersed in Latin and Greek, because he did so well and his brains and work ethic were obvious. Going into engineering without a real interest in the subject is a good way to tank one’s GPA.</p>
<p>What does the SON want to do? Does the son WANT to major in engineering, or has he been convinced that this is a good track to pursue finance? Does the son really want to work in finance? Many kids who are high school students think they want to do something or have been led to believe they should do something… But many change their majors and their minds about career options.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I completely understand the OPs college list. And I do agree with the post upstream that asked…is
this the student or the parent posting? Some of the posts sound like the student.</p>
<p>At this point, the main goal is to get accepted at a good university. He will have to decide at application time whether to apply to the engineering college or another one (business, liberal arts) at the universities to which he applies. But I think it is premature for those of us who don’t know him to plan out his entire career path or make assumptions about his passions or lack thereof. He is just starting his senior year of high school! If he gets in to engineering and decides he hates it, he can always transfer to another college within the same university. It may be a little harder to transfer into engineering, but is it really impossible after one year?</p>
<p>The question I have is: is it easier to get into an engineering program, a business school, or liberal arts school within a highly competitive university? In other words, what is most likely to get his foot in the door? I am not experienced enough to know this. He certainly seems to have an excellent resume and he seems competitive enough to me to be accepted at very good schools.</p>
<p>(Actually, just learned reading another current thread, not all schools make you choose up-front. Could there be advantages to staying undeclared at the time of application?)</p>