Should we push our son to apply to reach (e.g., Ivy) schools?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Here is my son's stats profile:</p>

<p>Gender: M
Location: Massachusetts
College Class Year: 2019
High School: Public Charter - Fairly new school. This is only their 5th graduating class
High School Type: sends some grads to top schools</p>

<p>Academics:</p>

<p>GPA - Unweighted: 4.00
GPA - Weighted: 4.39
Class Size: 67</p>

<p>Scores:</p>

<p>SAT I Math: 770
SAT I Critical Reading: 780
SAT I Writing: 720
SAT II Math Level 1 (IC): 740
SAT II Math Level 2 (IIC): 800
SAT II Biology - M: 710</p>

<p>Extracurriculars:
Theater – 4 years. Lead roles in Romeo & Juliet, The Real Inspector Hound, Grease. Sub-leads and ensemble roles in 6 others.<br>
Piano – 3 years
Guitar – 5 years
Voice – 3 years
Leadership roles:
Co-teacher of student led Improv Class 2 years
Athletics:
Swimming, club level 5 years – could swim at Division III level
Honors and Awards:
Brown University Book Award
Senior District Music Festival (voice)
Silver Award MICCA Festival (voice)
National Merit Commended Student
John and Abigail Adams Scholarship
Colleges of Interest:
Brandeis University, Top choice
Hampshire College, Choice #: 2 (tie)
Wesleyan University, Choice #: 2 (tie); Legacy both parents
Boston University, Choice #: 4
Northeastern University, Choice #: 4
Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Choice #: 4
University of Massachusetts-Amherst, Safety
University of Massachusetts-Lowell, Safety</p>

<p>Desired College Characteristics:</p>

<p>Location type: Near city like Boston, but doesn’t need to be in it
Size: </p>

<p>Area: East Coast
Importance of cost: Secondary</p>

<p>Right now, Brandeis is his top choice, with Wesleyan and Hampshire right behind. BU, Northeastern, and WPI are schools he likes for various reasons, but isn't in love with any of them. The UMass schools are just safeties. I don't think that any of these are reaches for him (especially with double parent legacy at Wesleyan), but he is fine with that.
My husband and I would like him to look at schools like Harvard, Yale, Brown, Columbia, but he says he thinks he'd get a perfectly good education at any of his schools, and he would only be going for the "name" at these other schools, and I think he has a point.
On the other hand, the "name" can open a lot of doors, and I think he has a decent shot, though he's not a slam dunk at any of them.
What do other parents think? Should we push this, or just content ourselves with the fact that the most important thing is that he find a school that's a good fit for him and where he's comfortable?
Thanks for any input.</p>

2

<p>I wouldn’t push it. What’s the point? Bragging rights? What if he is accepted and still wants to go to Brandeis? Would you push him to go to the Ivy League school instead?</p>

<p>I did push my son to apply to a rolling admission safety when he only wanted to apply to one school, but don’t understand pushing Ivy League on a student who doesn’t want it.</p>

3

<p>why not?</p>

4

<p>All the schools that he is considering have a " name" among people familiar with American universities.
To add additional schools because you aren’t confident enough of his selections says more about your narrow focus than his likely post grad opportunities.
The only reason I can think of to add Harvard , Princeton or the like, would be if you have reason to believe that he would be eligible for more financial aid.</p>

5

<p>I would definitely not push it. Some kids just really don’t like the whole Ivy thing and find it doesn’t suit their personalities.
Also, Wesleyan being on his list–what’s not prestigious about that? Brandeis is also well known as an excellent university. And if it helps, one of the brightest young guys I’ve ever known went to Hampshire. By age 26, he had already made a name for himself in his field. The freedom to pretty much design your own major allowed him to explore his interests in a way he never could have at a Harvard. (He would have been a dropout like Gates or Zuckerburg.)</p>

<p>I had one kid who was a natural for the Ivy route and one who had the stats but applied to schools like Bowdoin, Whitman and Pomona. It suited him better and he was wise enough to know it. Let your kid guide his own course in this process. He seems to have done very well up to this point!</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t push, but if he’s interested he certainly could. I don’t think parents should “push” a particular college - point out the pros and cons and let him decide. </p>

7

<p>We ARE confident of his selections, and we’ve spent his entire life telling him that appearances don’t matter. However, now that we’re down to the wire, we’re thinking that while names don’t matter to us, they might matter to others, and we don’t want him to feel like he missed an opportunity. Our experience tells us otherwise. My husband and I went to Wesleyan, and when it came time for graduate school, my husband got into every grad school he applied to (Harvard, U Chicago, Yale, Princeton, UNC, Berkeley, Caltech, and some others), and ended up at Caltech. I think our concern is more that he hasn’t even looked at those schools, and it’s possible he’d like them.</p>

8

<p>The current list of schools does not seem to have much in common besides region. Any particular academic or professional interests?</p>

<p>Since cost is a factor, have you checked the net price calculators?</p>

<p>Does he actually like the safeties?</p>

9

<p>Because of his list, the only ivy I would suggest is Brown…if he likes Wesleyan and tends toward northeast LACs, he would probably love Brown. He seems like a great fit stats wise and in his interests. </p>

10

<p>The problem with forcing the issue, and I think you would be or you wouldn’t be hearing what you’re hearing from him, is that it will feel like pushing to him. It will seem like you care more about the name of the school and how others may view it than his own feelings about what’s right for him. I know that’s not how you feel at all- I get it as I’ve been there. We tried to interest son in Stanford. He did visit, thought it was ok, applied because it was expected, and then pulled his application after thinking about it later. He knew he wouldn’t choose it and didn’t want to take a spot from some of the other kids at his school that really wanted to go. (It doesn’t really work that way, either, but that’s what they think.) In retrospect, he chose the perfect spot for him and he’s done very well; much success and confidence.
Let your son drive this ship. He will get more satisfaction out of making this decision for himself than he would benefit from an Ivy degree. Brandeis and Wes are both excellent. It’s not like he’s choosing schools no one has ever heard of. And as you know, there is grad school.</p>

<p>Edit: After reading Gourmetmom’s comment, I do agree about Brown. I think you could suggest that you visit Brown with him because of it’s uniqueness, and apply if he likes what he sees. This way it doesn’t seem like you’re just pushing him to apply to more selective schools for the sake of their selectivity. He’ll probably go for it. A visit, at least.</p>

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<p>His interests are a little hard to pin down. He has always loved math, and for years he was sure he wanted to go into engineering, and then he discovered a passion for performing arts and music. He’s been talking a lot about a math/music double major or something similar, which makes Brandeis, Wesleyan, and Hampshire all very attractive options for him. They all have the “quirky kid” factor going for them as well. I think Northeastern and WPI are holdovers from when he was sure he wanted to go into engineering. BU is on the list primarily because when he went on the tour, the tour guide was a math/music double major, and because they offer some fantastic merit aid. As for the safeties, he has friends in the Honors Program at both of them and they are happy, so he feels comfortable. UMass Amherst has the added attraction of being part of the 5 college consortium so he could take classes at Hampshire and Amherst (which isn’t on his list because the tour guide was pretentious).
For some reason, he didn’t like Brown when we visited last year. He said it was okay, but nothing really pulled him in. I thought he’d love it, and I’d like him to take another look.
It seems like he’s looking for a particular vibe from the students on campus, and I agree with him that the kids at Brandeis, Wesleyan, and Hampshire all seemed very engaged, serious, and outgoing.
We won’t qualify for financial aid, which is fair, but we aren’t so well off that we wouldn’t appreciate some merit aid. So far, all of the schools on his list except Wesleyan offer merit aid.</p>

12

<p>Hampshire’s course offerings in math (and probably other subjects) are unusual, and can be quite interesting to many students. However, if he intends to go on the graduate study in math, he may want to include some of the more “standard” advanced math courses (real analysis, abstract algebra, complex analysis, etc.) from the consortium schools as well.</p>

<p>Northeastern presumably has a very pre-professional emphasis, being structured around co-ops. He may want to think about whether that is a positive or negative for him.</p>

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<p>It sounds like he has really thought this through. You and your Dh should sit back and enjoy the fruits of your success in raising such a level-headed kid. You have heard the phrase, “Don’t borrow trouble, right?” :)</p>

<p>Seriously, it’s understandable that you don’t want your kid to shortchange himself, and sometimes all of the college hype is so insidious that you feel sort of odd if you’re not participating. Be glad you have a kid who knows what he wants and isn’t swayed by the big names for their own sake. Although, have you looked at the admission rates at Wes lately? It’s a reach for almost everyone. </p>

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<p>I think he should decide which school to attend. </p>

<p>However, I don’t understand how he knows he won’t like the Ivies without visiting. To me, that is no different than the student who thinks they only want to apply to Ivies, without visiting.</p>

<p>It could be worth visiting a few of them. Often kids are suprised when they visit a school and discover that it is not what they expected. Ivies have a lot of opportunities that are not available everywhere. </p>

<p>I agree with UCB Alumnus that the schools on his list are quite diverse. What major is he interested in? School size? Social temperament? Weather? Other qualities?</p>

15

<p>Yes, Northeastern is big into co-ops. I liked the Music Industry program and thought that would be great paired with co-op. (maybe not right for OP’s son but will post a link anyway - <a href=“http://www.northeastern.edu/camd/music/academic-programs/bs-in-music-industry/”>http://www.northeastern.edu/camd/music/academic-programs/bs-in-music-industry/&lt;/a&gt;).</p>

<p>Northeastern has some good merit scholarships. It is much more campus-y than BU. But lots of kids do like the BU vibe too. </p>

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<p>@moonchild‌ - I agree that Wes is a reach for almost everyone these days, and I’d consider a bit of a reach for him if DH and I weren’t both alums. We also have a former professor of ours who is still there and has offered to put in a good word for him. My husband is fairly prominent in his field and his publications are known in the department, so I think that extra boost will get him in. (I could be wrong).</p>

17

<p>Thanks for all the input. I welcome it and would be happy for more. Our strategy at this point is to drop the subject until after he’s submitted all his application pieces to the colleges he wants - he’s set himself a deadline of November 1, so that he can apply early action to all the schools that offer it. Then, in November, we will suggest that he visit a few other schools just to look. That will still give him plenty of time to complete the supplemental essays if he decides to apply.</p>

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<p>I tend to think it depends, regarding the pushing. I think it’s okay to ask a kid to look at a few schools you think will be a good fit, and perhaps to apply to one parent choice. Just as long as come April, you sit back and let them own the decision. I made my oldest apply to Harvard because I thought it was a better choice than his safeties, but I let him turn it down for Carnegie Mellon which was much stronger in his field (computer science). It sounds like your kid has a good head on his shoulders. He’s got a great list and he certainly doesn’t have to apply to reachier schools if he doesn’t want to.</p>

19

<p>I would suggest Case Western, Carnegie Mellon or maybe even Oberlin over WPI
if he likes the combo of Engineering and Music/Theater.</p>

20

<p>Maybe Bard?</p>

<p>To me, the problem on the list isn’t the lack of reaches if he’s happy with the matches. It’s the safeties - sounds like both you and he have them there “just because.” It might be nice to find a quirky LAC that would give terrific merit money to someone with his stats just in case, rather than Ye Olde State Institutione.</p>