<p>We live in NJ and my Daughter was accepted at TCNJ with a merit scholarship and offering into the Honors program. My husband thinks she shouldn't even consider anywhere else. However, she would rather go to UVA or William and Mary. Advice??</p>
<p>dirzzit, When you say your sons are engineers, I assume you mean they are engineering undergraduate students, not actual engineers yet. You make a valid point, which I made above, that there are reasons beyond academics and cost to go to an OOS school, including desire to live in a certain city or state, or just a preference for the school's environment, even a preference for the sports team. If you want to cheer for a big-time college sports program, it's hard to do that at a New York state school.</p>
<p>I'm not as sure about the claim about OOS merit aid. Most schools I'm familiar with offer more merit aid to IS students.</p>
<p>Your other point about being near companies where there are internship opportunities is also interesting. If your son wants to intern at a specific company that has an established partnership with a certain school.</p>
<p>Justfine, what major is your D considering? That could make a difference. Obviously, given its history, TCNJ is good for education, so I wouldn't suggest going OOS for that major.</p>
<p>Tom1944,</p>
<p>yes, we realize the area around U of D has its issues, however, I think UMCP is probably worse. She will go into U of D with eyes open (if she goes at all!)</p>
<p>my comparison numbers were off also, U of D will run us around 24k more over 4yrs not 32k! still not a small number.</p>
<p>good discussion, very interesting to hear all the different viewpoints</p>
<p>This is a topic near and dear to me, as we are living it. After sending both our sons OOS to private schools (UPenn and Juilliard), we sent our D OOS to a state school, Miami U of Ohio. I had a few reservations ahead of time, and generally those reservations have been true. However, our reasons for sending her there haven't changed, so we would probably do it again.</p>
<p>First, none of our kids was happy with what our instate schools offered. Specifically, my eldest son wanted to get away from his classmates. The vast majority stay instate, often room with HS friends, etc. Since he didn't really enjoy HS, he wasn't eager to repeat it for 4 more years. His costs at UGA or GT would have been significantly lower (!!!) but we do not regret our decision. (He graduated in 2005 and has done well since.)</p>
<p>Our second son went out of state due to the reason stated in a previous post that his major was not offered - at the level he wanted - in state. Again, no regrets.</p>
<p>Our D went OOS mainly because her brothers did, but also because of both boys' reasons: we had a difficult time finding her majors at appropriate levels, and she didn't want to stay in GA. She also didn't qualify for the HOPE scholarship, due to earning most of her HS credits in another country.</p>
<p>Miami was the only state school on her list. It was also the largest. She ended up choosing it because they offered her what she wanted, and with the most generous scholarships. It is a great school, she has been very happy with the level of instruction and the opportunities offered her, both academic and social. </p>
<p>The negatives are:
1. The school shuts down on short breaks, like spring break, and holidays. We did not always bring our sons home for these (except Christmas), but we don't have a choice with D. The private schools have many kids from far away, so they understand better that it isn't easy for everyone to leave. </p>
<ol>
<li> Even when the school doesn't shut down, like for the 3 day weekend in the fall, most of the kids go home anyway. My D's roommates (she is a sophomore) have always gone home about once a month or so. She doesn't have that option. Although her peers have been very welcoming and friendly, she also is left out of all the summer meet-ups and group happenings because she is too far away.</li>
</ol>
<p>Likewise, she was one of few whose parents didn't show up for parents' weekend. We didn't go to our S's, either, but he wasn't alone!</p>
<ol>
<li><p>There is a feeling of inequity - even though we understand the reasoning - about costs. It is frustrating that we simply can't afford as many luxuries for her as her classmates get, because we are spending so much more than they are for the education portion. Most of the study abroad programs, for example, require my D to pay the OOS costs. During the school year this wouldn't have been a big deal, because it is what we were going to pay anyway. But she had hoped to go abroad in the summer, and we just cannot afford a third semester of OOS tuition. (As a double degree student, she doesn't have the time to go during the school year.)</p></li>
<li><p>Last year Ohio decreed that state schools could not raise their tuition for instaters, so the OOSers got a 6% increase to pay for the rising costs. An increase would be painful no matter what, but when we are one of the few paying it, it hurts twice. (I believe MU has about 35% OOS, but some of those qualify for instate due to area agreements, and I'm sure there are a few with full academic or athletic scholarships.)</p></li>
<li><p>Although I am a native of PA, and I like Ohio people just fine, I do notice that there is a certain narrowness of thinking when the majority of the people all come from the same background and experience.</p></li>
<li><p>Internship opportunities and job fairs cater largely to instate companies, simply due to the reality that it's cheaper for those companies to send reps. I don't know how that compares in general; UPenn had folks coming in from all over to recruit.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>As I said, my D is very happy there, and fits well. We would have been even deeper in debt had she gone private, and I'm not sure that her education would have been better elsewhere. She's happy; I'm happy. Mostly.</p>
<p>Justfine, that's a tough one. Cost wise TCNJ is a no-brainer. Generally going to an expensive OOS school for teacher training is not justified. However, if you have the $$$ I think UVa would offer a much better overall experience than TCNJ. WM still better but less so IMHO. But it's lots of $$$ that you won't make back through higher salary upon graduation.</p>
<p>I am underwhelmed by the SUNY's. Many of them are in small towns in upstate NY. They have an extremely high percentage of NYers. For many NYers out of state universities can be attractive - either for top notch academics, or particular programs, warmer weather a more diverse population. For a top student like my oldest, they weren't even on the radar screen.</p>
<p>That said when we looked at Berkeley for my son we did decide that it wasn't worth it. The combination of cost and lack of guaranteed housing were the deciding factors, but for other the impacted majors where you can basically not be allowed in a major if your grades aren't good enough was another negative factor. I also thought it was not diverse at all, especially in the sciences.</p>
<p>Oh my, oh my.......we are in CA and D did not get into UCLA, but did get into UCSD and UCDavis. Waiting on Berkeley. She was accepted to Honors Humanities at UMDCP and thinks she really wants to go there for this program. If she did get into UVA she'd probably go there, but everyone OOS knows that it's a longshot. </p>
<p>Any opinions on UMDCP vs a UC? No money offered from anyone, anywhere. It would be about 10K more/year OOS, plus airfare. </p>
<p>Appreciate any feedback available :)</p>
<p>Neither of my Ds would consider staying in state, because frankly, the programs that they were interested in are not highly regarded at our big state U. Between the two of them, they did apply to other states' major U's, that have incredibly strong reputations for their desired areas of study. If your kids is pretty certain of what they want to major in, and your state U doesn't offer the program, or there are other state U's that have a more reputable program for a specific area of study, then I think it's reasonable to go out of state. As someone said upthread, UICU is not a necessarily inexpensive state U; both my daughters ended up at private schools out east that, with merit scholarship, was within the same range as UICU. </p>
<p>There is not a yes or no answer to this question.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Even when we're not talking about the top publics, there can be good reasons to go OOS.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Definitely true. My daughter is a non-resident at Kansas State University. She chose K-State over our flagship public (a very good school) because she was offered early conditional admission to K-State's College of Veterinary Medicine. Our flagship public doesn't have a vet school, and considering how difficult it is to get into any vet school, this was an offer that she couldn't pass up. K-State awarded her a very generous merit package too. It pays to shop around.</p>
<p>Several years ago, I was chatting with an admissions officer from one of the PA publics. I commented that we lived OOS. He told me something interesting. If his school wants someone badly, it would offer a student in-state tuition. There are several OOS schools (we live in Virginia) that have those type of offers available, so it does indeed pay to look around. I just told my nephew about some of the WV and PA schools, and he is going to look into them, because, in the long run, they will be less than what he will pay in VA.</p>
<p>^Exactly what happened with my daughter. After merit aid, we pay substantially less for her to attend K-State than it would have cost for her to attend our public flagship.</p>
<p>My question was about the difference in cost not special programs or where the in state school does not offer the program. I also understand if you get aid at the oos but the situations I am referencing are where someone would pay oos costs for a school ranked higher than their in state assuming you can major in the same subject at each school. Generally that is what most, not all, students face.</p>
<p>Interesting perspectives.</p>
<p>Re: benny & UT Austin vs. Rutgers "That's a textbook case of a waste of money IMHO."</p>
<p>Actually, son's already been admitted to UT (OOS) as well as Rutgers. Rutgers, instate, at the end of the day will be $26 to $28k, not $13k UT will be $40k. We were told the undergrads are (some) recruited by companies that look to the 'top 10 schools.' Of course they are promoting themselves, but some things are hard to fudge.</p>
<p>We'll def be looking into it more closely.</p>
<p>Everyone has interesting perspectives!</p>
<p>Jolynne, a good friend of mine has a son in who is majoring in engineering at Rutgers and she told me that her son and all of his friends had an easy time finding internships between junior and senior year. All they did was go to a job/internship fair at school to them.</p>
<p>Barring the issue of an OOS school offering a major that is not available in-state, I can't see any reason to go out of state. The degrees from state schools are generally treated similarly so there is no/little difference there. The sizes tend to be similar so there is no/little difference there. So the difference is in cost.</p>
<p>Thanks, northeastmom. The thing--son really, really wants to go someplace warm & sunny (can't blame him, I would feel the same, given an option). His first choice was CA, but we haven't heard yet from USC. He loves music (Austin is huge music town) & wants to be in a city. New Brunswick was not a thrilling encounter for him (although a number of friends are going).</p>
<p>From what I hear, Austin has a decent, developing tech area (for jobs/internships). I think if son can't go to UT, Rutgers is a good choice. Then again, VA Tech is almost the same price ($28k) out of state as Rutgers is, instate.</p>
<p>Interesting discussion...</p>
<p>justfine, I'm in VA but have been impressed with the quality of TCNJ; congrats to your D. I do have a bias towards uva and w&m, especially the latter. The two are pretty different environments, and strengths, so a choice between the two should depend on what your is like and what she's looking for. Good luck!</p>
<p>Thanks for the correction on the money Jolynne Smyth. For some reason, I was thinking your son would be living at home! Obviously not. Still a big difference. And you hit the nail on the head about schools promoting themselves. Rutgers is an excellent school. Many times people discredit the quality of their own state's flagship public. The other side of the grass is always greener apparently.</p>
<p>I have been to Austin and NB. Austin QOL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NB. Job opps after will be similar with maybe more national firms coming to UT.</p>