<p>Join the military, they will pay back your student loans, and you go travel where ever you want. The pay in the military is pretty high for a single person as well.</p>
<p>When I was nine years old, I dreamed of going to Dart-MOUTH. I liked the idea of a school being in New Hampshire, which was the only state I'd lost from my cardboard map of the 50 states 'cause it was so small.</p>
<p>It is adolescent, and driven by consumerist appeals to our nascent adolescence, and our virtually insatiable drive to equate "the best" with "the most". I fully understand why ADULTS have "dream schools" for their kids, much like they have "dream diamond earrings" or "dream automobiles".</p>
<p>But for the kids to be dreaming about schools - about classrooms they've never seen, professors they've never met, and books they've never read, and never ever having had the opportunity to compare them with other classrooms they've never seen, professors they've never met, and books they've never read - seems about right for a nine-year-old.</p>
<p>but that does not make it oxy-moron. does it?</p>
<p>
As someone whose kid "dreamed" of one particular school since elementary school and then ended up there, I'd have to thoroughly disagree with mini.</p>
<p>Nothing oxymoronic about it.</p>
<p>I think, mini, that you are grossly underestimating the students who have very valid (and mature) reasons for their dreams. To me, and to my son, the concept of a "dream school" is <em>not</em> just a school of which you "dream"
[quote] ...about classrooms they've never seen, professors they've never met, and books they've never read, and never ever having had the opportunity to compare them with other classrooms they've never seen, professors they've never met, and books they've never read
not at all....To the contrary, it is a theoretical construct which serves as a superb motivator for a kid who has big aspirations and an eye toward future success. A sort of ultimate goal to supplement the small ones along the way. </p>
<p>My son went to middle school/high school in a small Kansas town. Most teachers scoffed at his dreams or gave him a perfunctory nod. Very few served as true motivators and mentors for him (and to the ones that did, he and I owe an astounding debt of gratitude!). S's "dream school" was a bright light in the distance, something that urged him on when no one else did.</p>
<p>Would he have found happiness/contentment/satsifaction/success at other schools? You bet. Of course he would have. Was he thrilled beyond measure that he ended up at a school that he had dreamt of for so long? OMG. I think his Duke acceptance thread expressed how he (and I) felt about THAT. :D </p>
<p>To say that the concept of having a "dream school' "seems about right for a nine-year-old."----Well, you're dead wrong on that one! ;)</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>yes this is the one mini can't get out. He is cornered :)</p>
<p>
He must be losin' his touch. This has been happenin' a bit lately.... ;)</p>
<p>In the paper today someone recommended that a student never take on college debt that adds up to more than his/her expected starting annual salary. It's an easy formula but I wonder if it's accurate.</p>
<p>Actually, Puzzled that starting-salary rule of thumb is a little on the high end for debt -- I have read elsewhere that financial counselors advise that monthly payments should not exceed 8% of income - so a Stafford loan of $19,000 (the maximum allowed) would require an annual salary of almost $33,000, which could be more than many liberal arts majors would start with. If the student borrowed $40K thinking they would earn that much -- the monthly payments would actually consume a much greater chunk of the salary.</p>
<p>One reason for that 8% rule is that mortgage lenders look at debt to income ratio, and if an individual is carrying debt above that ratio it can be difficult to get approved for a home loan. So a student may need to ask whether the "dream school" is worth giving up the idea of a "dream home."</p>
<p>You want to know the dream I have been having lately. Once I retire next year, I want to start with Vermont meet Susan, then Marite and northstarmom, then sybbie, then NJres and Garland, go to west texas visit curm, then visit Kansas, go to LA visit The Dad and Xiggi, then to SF visit alumother then go to WA and meet mini and emeraldkitty in person. I can always go to Slidel, LA.</p>
<p>Taxguy,
Would you be interested in branch into engineering product design or computer graphics? CMU is good at these and your income perspect could be quite different.</p>
<p>Soozievt. Yes, having the parents shoulder the debt of the kids does make it easier on the kids. However, it can be a killer for the parents. </p>
<p>I am writing a book on "Financial Self-Empowerment for Single Parents." My research has shown that a wide-spread financial killer for most people is their inability to save enough for retirement. This is especially true for woman! Shouldering the massive debt burden of your children's education can indeed be a killer for retirement security and well-being. We all want to help our children as much as possible. However, most people rarely factor in the effect on their retirement untill it is too late.</p>
<p>As I noted in my original post, puting the same monthly payments made to payoff a debt into retirement savings over a lifetime would produce an extra $800,000 at retirement. This also assumes only 8% return. An extra $800,000-$1,000,000 can make the difference between a comfortable retirement and none at all! This also assumes that you only have one child's debt that you are assuming. If there is more than one child or if you are also assuming debt for graduate and/or professional school, what I have stated becomes even more significant.</p>
<p>Inverse, I must be tired. Please restate your question since I don't understand what you are asking.</p>
<p>taxguy that may be true for oldfarts, but there have been studies that show amlost 70% of below 30 crowd is maxing out on 401k. Below 30 crowd knows that days of traditional pension and working for the same employer for 30 years are gone, SS will be so broke that they may have to pay in to it till they are 70.</p>
<p>Taxguy,
We have student changed her major from art to engineering. There are also art component in product design. I was wondering whether you are flexible in your background to interface engineering or computer graphics.</p>
<p>Sorry Inverse, I still don't understand what you are asking. First, I am NOT a designer. Thus, I have no background, per se, in engineering or computer graphics. Secondly, in terms of flexibilty, you need to elaborate on that. Flexible as to what, major, job availability, ability to double major? Please be a lot more specific.</p>
<p>Simba, even if folks are maxing out their 401Ks, which I am not convinced is occuring as much as you note, many times they do a poor job in the 401K investments. Just ask any of the former Enron employees.</p>
<p>Taxguy, as I have said, I agree with simba about that this whole issue is very different if the student him/herself must pay back hefty school loans compared to if the parents take on that responsibility. Different issues and decisions are involved. </p>
<p>Simba, I agree how fun it would be to meet all the people who I've been talking to on CC all these years. I have met several but not nearly all. If anyone is ever in Vermont.....</p>
<p>Taxguy....you do bring up an excellent point about retirement funds. Admittedly, we are in BAD shape that way as we have no retirment funds and we also are self employed. So, as I said, not everyone would do as we have done and regrettably we don't have retirement funds. However, we just feel really strongly about providing the college education. We were fortunate to have it provided for ourselves and it is just something that was never even debated but a given for our kids. As well, they have grandparents who want to help toward paying off some of the college debt. It is a group/family effort. </p>
<p>Berurah, you wrote and asked: </p>
<p>
[quote]
IMHO, your D's odds for a great job in her field are substantially increased by the fact that her degree will be from Tisch. NO comparison to some of the lesser known schools. The director of our esteemed Music Theatre of Wichita holds special audtions at Ann Arbor and Tisch for his summer company (he auditions THOUSANDS and selects about 20). Are you saying that this "job payoff" was not considered at ALL in her decision?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First, I don't entirely agree that my D's job prospects are greater because she went to Tisch over some of the other BFA programs she was admitted to. For one thing, in musical theater, it is about the AUDITION, not the resume so much. While one may have opportunities or meet lots of people through school and also get good training at a good BFA program, the program is not going to get her work as so much rides on the auditions (when it comes to casting for shows). I'm glad she got into a good program that fits her so well that she loves and that's the main thing.</p>
<p>I don't know that her job prospects are better due to the school she went to over the other options she had. It didn't play a factor in her decision to go there at all. In general, she wanted a good program, challenging, balanced, along with a more academic challenging university. While my kids opted for well regarded schools, it had more to do with that they fit in with a certain kind of student and level of challenge, than where that named school would get them into a job down the line. They never really discussed that aspect at all, sorry, but true. </p>
<p>I wasn't aware that Music Theater of Wichita auditions at Tisch and have never heard her mention it. However, I have heard of MT kids at some programs in the midwest who have auditioned for that theater. People from ANY theater program also can audition for all sorts of professional summer stock at regional combined auditions, such as StrawHat auditions in NYC. I don't think there was an advantage of my D being at Tisch with regard at all to summer stock casting. Even coming out of Tisch, it will be difficult to make it as a musical theater actress. However, she has other talents and skills and I am not too concerned. She is getting great training and loves her program and that is all I care about for now. I think a skilled person, no matter where they went to school can be a success. She is driven. She will succeed but I think she'd succeed just as well coming from a less well known program. But I am glad she is at the program she is at because it really was exactly what she wanted and she is having a great time and learning a lot. And my kid who goes to an Ivy League school did not have "Ivy League" as a goal. She DID want a challenging college, a "good" college where she'd fit in with the level of motivated students as a whole and so forth. She never spoke about how coming from that named school would be an "advantage". It was more that she fit well with a school of that level, not too differently than the issue that she fit well in Honors classes in high school. I do believe it will be the student who succeeds, not the school from where they came from. Sometimes there is networking at school or opportunities arise. But that can be said of many schools. My kids wanted a so called "good college" for the actual experience and never talked of the notion that "good college will get me better job"....never came up. Might sound odd but what can I say, they picked the schools for the experience and the fit and it has turned out to be great fits in both cases and for that, I am so grateful. As they say with regard to price....priceless.</p>
<p>"Would he have found happiness/contentment/satsifaction/success at other schools? You bet."</p>
<p>You made my case. And since with increasing numbers of highly qualified applicants getting rejected at schools which are their "dreams" - even if they get into schools equally as good - as the schools become less selective as a result of increasingly applications, it's just a recipe for mass disappointment. (My d. reported on cases of this just this weekend.)</p>
<p>(I'm glad your son got to go where he "dreamed". Suppose he got in, and you weren't able to pay for it? It's just a set up. :eek:)</p>
<p>"Simba, even if folks are maxing out their 401Ks, which I am not convinced is occuring as much as you note,"</p>
<p>I was in error about maxing out on 401 K part.</p>
<p>CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- His major is history, but in the Friday editions of "The Daily Californian" John Waste plays the part of finance columnist.</p>
<p>The University of California, Berkeley student pens the "Finance on Friday" column that appears in the independent student newspaper. It's a topic that he's highly interested in -- the 21-year-old uses the Web to check in on his portfolio just about every day. His financial goals: buying a home in the next five to 10 years and saving up for a comfortable retirement. Visit The Daily Californian.</p>
<p>Certainly his investing habits aren't typical for his age. But Waste also thinks people in his generation take investing a lot more seriously than others might give them credit for. A recent survey by Scottrade seems to lend credence to that hunch.</p>
<p>Nearly 40% of 18- to 24-year-olds and 60% of 25- to 34-year-olds surveyed said they are concerned about having money for retirement. In addition, 59% of 18- to 24-year-olds said they saved for retirement in 2006 and 89% said they planned on saving for retirement in 2007. Seventy percent of 25- to 34-year-olds saved for retirement in 2006 and 85% said they would save for retirement in 2007.</p>
<p>D. reported conversation with good friend who is disconsolate this weekend. 4.0 student, high ACTs, lots of community service, topflight gymnast until she wrecked her knee (and her gymnastics career, at which she spent 4 hours a day for the past 6 years, as well as gaining an IB diploma.) skiing last year. Got into 10 of 11 schools. Rejected at her "dream school" - dartMOUTH - which she has never visited (I'm not sure that she has ever been off the west coast except for gymnastics meets.) No strong academic leanings in any particular direction, though she likes science.</p>
<p>Accepted OOS at Berkeley. No financial aid except for loans (massive), so she can't attend. The lesson? "Why did I work so hard?" she complained, "I'm ending up at the University of Washington anyway. I could have had a lot more fun!" (She has some big scholarships at other schools...but won't take 'em.)</p>
<p>Ah, the lesson of "dream school". Tens of thousands of wonderful students are getting this same lesson in the month of April. Next time, maybe they'll think twice about really giving it all they've got.</p>
<p>Good motivator.</p>