<p>It's so much better to do an easily measurable sport (track, XC, swimming, singles crew) That way, your times or marks will speak for themselves and you don't have to do the whole video thing in order to get coahces on your side. Excelling at sports is one of few guaranteed ways into the Ivy League.</p>
<p>Squash standards are ridiculously high. National team members from around the world. Like saying "play basketball so you can go to Duke", fine if you are top nationally ranked high school student, otherwise...</p>
<p>Actually, it is possible for Ivies to get waivers from the AI floor to admit a handful of people. So, although most stories of low SAT, low gpa admits of athletes are just inventions, occasionally that really does happen.</p>
<p>here's a pretty concise page talking about ivies and academic index.....</p>
<p>check it out. in the meantime, i'm looking for an article that i read recently...the article stated the number of waivers---and i believe it was really, really low...in fact maybe as low as zero in recent years....i'll post that when i find it.</p>
<p>My daughter graduated from a public arts magnet -- no athletic program at the school, hence hardly any athletes. Just about every year 1 kid is admitted to an Ivy (this past year, 1 kid was admitted to 3 Ivies) -- and I would consider that pretty good, since it is a small school and it is unlikely that more than a handful of kids even apply to Ivies. In general, the kids at the school would fit Mini's description of middle class. </p>
<p>I'm wondering if what Mini is seeing is more the result of local competition -- that is, maybe when a lot of applications are coming from high schools with strong athletic programs -- or communities filled with such high schools -- then the athletes seem to dominate. My guess would be that a hook of any sort is better than no hook... I'm seeing artists, but at the same time my daughter is quite astounded at what a "jock" school Columbia turns out to be. (For a kid coming from a school with no organized sports programs, it is one additional form of culture shock). But I'll bet that a lot of those Ivy-bound athletes also have very high stats.</p>
<p>
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if your S can get his 40 yard time to 4.4 seconds, the football coaches will be drooling, regardless of his size.
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</p>
<p>Ha! I wish!</p>
<p>EDIT: Found this thread searching for "football recruiting", I have nothing to add to the conversation at all.</p>
<p>In my area, the key to HYP and MIT seems to be music.... a local prodigy who had to decide between H and Julliard (chose H); several kids with various instrumental skills who were admitted to all 3; etc. None were athletes although one of them played a fair game of recreational tennis and was a sports camp counselor. To my knowledge, all of them have contributed in some way to their campus' muscial scene although none of them are music majors. </p>
<p>I don't have any special insight into the family's financial situations, but I tend to believe the schools when they say they determine need and grant FI accordingly.</p>
<p>To the OP-- people love to brag that "my kid got a full scholarship to Princeton" as if somehow, it's more socially acceptable to pretend that your kid is so fabulous that Princeton "paid" for him, rather to admit, "we're dead broke and didn't plan ahead for college". Doesn't mean the schools are violating the rules; you really don't know an individual family's situation unless you've seen their tax return.</p>
<p>To Mini-- the athletes in my area tend to congregate at Seton Hall, U Conn, Notre Dame, etc. The kids with athletic talent who have gotten into the top ranked schools have been exceptional in their own right.... and none have continued w/athletics in college with the exception of ultimate frisbee or some club teams.</p>
<p>Watching the Sugar Bowl last night (atrocious, by the way) the sideline reporter was interviewing a tuba player in the Notre Dame band who lived in Louisiana. The reporter (and the guys in the booth) kept repeating that this tuba player won an academic scholarship from ND. No such thing! I've heard the same claims about many schools. It was only recently that I realized the real story about merit vs. financial aid awards. I really hate to see this misinformation spread around.</p>
<p>This happens in my area for high school, as well. The Catholic all-boy schools are dominating all the sports in NJ. Many kids are given financial aid & parents call it "scholarship." In addition, the generousity of alumni allows for many merit scholarships. Thus, the rumors of "recruiting" are passed around and resentment builds between publics & privates.</p>
<p>The track stars in our school don't go to Harvard (and we had a girl who was top ranked in the state last year in a number of events). But the guy I know best who got into Harvard was a repectible member of the track team. However I think the real reason he was accepted was being valedictorian, an Intel finalist, and an Eagle Scout.</p>
<p>Ivies certainly do recruit athletes, and they admit doing so. It's no secret at all. Standards, too, for athletes are lower, though the athletes always have to have stats high enough to indicate they can graduate from the Ivies as have plenty of athletes ranging from Sen. Bill Bradley (who was a great basketball player, and got into Princeton with relatively low stats) and the sports play by player James Brown (who used to be the host of America's Funniest Videos), who played basketball for Harvard after being recruited by one of the Kennedys.</p>
<p>Ivies do NOT give athletic scholarships because it's against the rules of their conference. </p>
<p>Stanford, however, does give athletic scholarships. Sometimes people think Stanford is an Ivy, and may therefore think that Ivies are giving athletic scholarships because Stanford is. The same is true of other colleges that people think are Ivies, but aren't.</p>
<p>There also probably are athletes who exaggerate their need-based scholarships from Ivies. Also, there are people who may misunderstand what the athletes are truthfully saying.</p>
<p>Class of 2011 Early Decision Admissions from todays edition of the Dartmouth:</p>
<p>Recruited athletes -- of which there were 120 -- comprised about 31 percent of the admitted group. According to Furstenberg, the majority of athletic recruitment in the Ivy League is accomplished through early admissions programs, a process he said is a "fairly efficient way" to enroll recruited athletes in the absence of athletic scholarships.</p>
<p>from the article:</p>
<p>In admissions, many get 'special' attention </p>
<p>Athletic admissions statistics are not released by the admissions office. Some speculate that athletes -- particularly those for big sports -- are given the highest preference of all. This does not appear to be the case at Dartmouth, although athletes do benefit from having a lobbyist in their coach. Coaches submit ranked lists of their recruited athletes to the admissions office. The admissions office then reviews the applications, taking into account the applicant's athletic talent and coach's recommendation.</p>
<p>"Athletic talent works in the same way other kinds of talent do. The only difference is it's a much more organized and structured recruiting process and that's a function of the NCAA and the Ivy League rules," Furstenberg said. "They tell us who they want, but there are no guaranteed number of slots."</p>
<p>But even with the ability to submit a list, some coaches expressed frustration with how little say they really have.</p>
<p>"How much clout do I have? Minimal," men's swimming coach Jim Wilson said. "If you look at my SAT scores and compare to the average SAT scores, my kids may be getting in with a 1450 instead of a 1460."</p>
<p>Wilson did, however, speculate that some of the "higher-profile sports like football may be getting a little more help."</p>
<p>Coaches are given little feedback from the admissions office before submitting their lists, according to Wilson. "I'm shooting blind," he said, adding that other schools, even in the Ivy League, are actually more lenient with athletic admissions.</p>
<p>"Some schools will say 'if he has this GPA and this SAT score were going to let him in.' Our admissions doesn't do that," Wilson said.</p>
<p>Michele Hernandez '89, who worked in the Dartmouth admissions office in the mid-1990s and is currently a private college counselor, concurred.</p>
<p>"Dartmouth actually has higher standards for athletes than most schools," she said. "Many athletes that are walking straight into Harvard couldn't get into Dartmouth."</p>
<p>While athletic talent can bolster an application, it does not replace other criteria for admission, according to Furstenberg. If coaches do not find well qualified applicants to put on their list, they risk not getting enough players that year.</p>
<p>"If the coaches say we need nine soccer players this year, but we only think six of them are qualified, that's what they get," he said. "All of the decisions are made here; the only person at the institution who can admit someone is me."</p>
<p>"Wilson did, however, speculate that some of the "higher-profile sports like football may be getting a little more help."</p>
<p>Why does he have to speculate when Bowen & Co., and later studies at Williams, provide actual numbers?</p>
<p>
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The track stars in our school don't go to Harvard (and we had a girl who was top ranked in the state last year in a number of events).
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</p>
<p>The reason is because anyone who is truly serious about their sport does not want to compete for a terrible program - especially if it's football in D-IAA.</p>
<p>I don't want to offend anyone who plays sports or has their children play sports at an Ivy - especially MoWC, because Penn's track program is outstanding and her son is exceptional - but speaking from a football perspective, anyone who chooses to play football at an Ivy League school automatically throws their chances of playing professionally out the window. It's excellent they got in and that they'll graduate with that Harvard degree, but it doesn't matter how good they are (remember Nick Hartigan from Brown setting all those records last year?) because recruits simply don't look at D-IAA players.
I'm not saying my teammates are 'better' than the guys in the Ivies on paper, but since we play the likes of LSU and Auburn, we have many players get drafted who would never be seen had they chosen to play for Harvard or Princeton.</p>
<p>Ecliptica,</p>
<p>I agree with you about football and a couple of other sports. But most sports do not have a "professional" component, so it makes more sense to get into the best academic school you can, using your sport as a "hook."</p>
<p>Ecliptica, many who play sports in college, including those in the Ivies, do not have ambitions to play their sport professionally after college. For some, sports is a passion they wish to continue in college competitively and then in certain sports, to continue doing for life as an interest area, but it is not their career ambition. This is the case with my kid.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>but speaking from a football perspective, anyone who chooses to play football at an Ivy League school automatically throws their chances of playing professionally out the window. It's excellent they got in and that they'll graduate with that Harvard degree, but it doesn't matter how good they are (remember Nick Hartigan from Brown setting all those records last year?) because recruits simply don't look at D-IAA players.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Wrong again. There are Harvard players in the NFL:</p>
<p>From Ivyleaguesports.com:
"27 Ivy Leaguers are currently on NFL rosters, as of July 31 [2006]</p>
<p>The group, led by Jacksonville Jaguars All-Pro defensive end, Marcellus Wiley (Columbia ?97), includes at least one player from each of the eight Ivys ? Columbia and Princeton lead the way, each with five NFL representatives. </p>
<p>Second year Rams quarterback and former Ivy League Player of the Year, Ryan Fitzpatrick (Harvard ?05), returns to St. Louis after an impressive rookie campaign, which saw him become only the fifth quarterback in NFL history to throw for 300 yards in his debut, earning him NFC Offensive Player of the Week honors as well as Rookie of the Week honors. </p>
<p>The Ivys are represented in the coaching ranks as well, with former Yale standout Dick Jauron (?73) entering his first season at the helm in Buffalo..."</p>
<p>Lots of hating on athletes in this thread. Some bitterness about rejections or being bullied in high school perhaps?</p>
<p>That's very funny that Columbia is so well represented. I thought their football team always lost! Maybe it's better now?</p>
<p>^It actually went 5/5 this year!!! But up until now, yes, it almost always lost, which would have included the teams these guys played on. We thought it was pretty funny, too.</p>
<p>^^Which just goes to show that not only do the pro scouts look at the Ivy league for talent, they even look closely at the traditionally weaker teams in the Ivy League.</p>