<p>highsea-
im in a similar situation, except fortunately I was selected for semifinalist, but honestly I was expecting more. I know how much work it takes to get published in a high level journal, and honestly, if you have been published in Science or Nature, that alone will be worth a lot more than any award in Siemens or Intel (personally, I am submitting my project to Science, so believe me, I empathize with you). I think the thing to consider here is that this competition will only last you through high school; when you are applying for grad school/med school/faculty positions later on in life, your publications will live on, whereas you will never even mention Siemens or Intel again. Just something to keep in mind.</p>
<p>Oh, and it goes without saying that you complaints are completely warranted, haha its obvious they do some sort of screening until they reach something like 100 papers. Actually reviewing a paper takes weeks (its a VERY serious process normally, that usually requires correspondence back and forth between the submitter and the reviewer)</p>
<p>Thanks. At least I have one comrade with me.<br>
Anyway, this is not about me. This is about my fellow aspiring young brothers and sisters from heartland America. If none of us are discussing here, they’ll suffer the same disappointments as I did.</p>
<p>omgitsover9000-
Way to go! CONGRATS. We need to encourage our young brothers and sisters to be involved in research.
We shall not allow a state like NY be it's own region. It’s ridiculously unfair. We need to have judges from MO, ND, SD, IA, MN and WI.</p>
<p>Or, highsea08, you could try to get everyone in your state to just submit their 4th grade science fair projects and maybe Siemens will make your state another region due to sheer volume of applicants :)
But if it makes you feel better, I think the one RF from Wisconsin will totally win, or at the very least place in the top 5 (or whatever system they have going on). I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't.
Oh and go Kansas and it's world's largest ball of twine!</p>
<p>To me the bigger question is to what extent the work is that of the student. It is impossible to discern from an abstract. Yet that is the basis for selection to move on in the competition. As for regional bias, I do not think that is a factor. Look at the populations for each region for a comparison.<br>
I do agree with high seas on the quick turnaround for selection. It does appear to make it impossible to judge the projects in any meaningful way. Another issue I wonder about is if the judges are privy to the lab or mentor name during the "blind" review.<br>
I am the parent of a SF, whose work had been published in a peer reviewed scientific journal as sole author (but not science or nature). There are hundreds of respectable peer-reviewed journals and a high school student getting published in one is an amazing achievement. So, highseas, chalk it up to experience and be very proud that your hard work has received the recognition of scientific community by being published. That is a much more important contribution to the wealth of knowledge than a high school competition.</p>
<p>Click on the map to see which states fall under each region. Each region generates about the same number of applications and sends the same number of individuals and teams to the Regional and National Finals.</p>
<p>highsea, I know of others who have been published and did not advance in Siemens/Intel. I know it is disappointing; sometimes the competitions are looking at different things than a scientific journal. Major congrats on getting published, though -- that will definitely impress colleges, but more importantly, YOU should proud of yourself. Publication is a big deal.</p>
<p>
[quote]
you could try to get everyone in your state to just submit their 4th grade science fair projects and maybe Siemens will make your state another region due to sheer volume of applicants
[/quote]
Good point. For states like us where researches are not encouraged in high schools, we went through many obstacles to pursue our projects. The qualities of our papers are much higher than these mass produced NY high school class research papers.
To divide a region based on numbers, it is unfair.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Each region generates about the same number of applications and sends the same number of individuals and teams to the Regional and National Finals.
[/quote]
Number != Quality.
Siemens tried to make it a fair process, but it ended up with a flawed process. This is a classic cenerio with over fitting/over optimization.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
highsea, I know of others who have been published and did not advance in Siemens/Intel. I know it is disappointing; sometimes the competitions are looking at different things than a scientific journal.
[/Quote]
IF
A process:
a) Failed to RELIABLY pick up winners commonly acknowledged by scientific communities
b) Does not have ADEQUATE resources to pick up winners
Where 1)resource must equal to expert judge
2) resource must not equal to technical reader
c) Does not have the manpower to review each and every 1200+ submissions from 10/01 to 10/24
THEN
It should not be in the business picking up scientific winners.
END IF.</p>
<p>highsea08 - I'm sorry you didn't make Semifinalist. What was your project on anyways? I'm pretty curious because you seem pretty passionate about your research and it seems like a really good project considering you got it published.</p>
<p>quick question--how many guests could finalists invite to the dinner in previous years? was it ever more than one? between my mentor, school principal, parents, etc. it has been hard to choose.</p>
<p>Biggest piece of advice: be yourself. Practice your presentation. Be able to talk about the real-world usefulness of your research (this is particularly tough if yours is a theoretical project, but...). Be enthusiastic! The regional final we attended last year had a very nice bunch of kids and S has stayed in touch with many of them. They were very supportive and helpful to each other throughout the weekend and enjoyed hanging out together every free moment, too. </p>
<p>The Siemens folks really WANTS the parents there -- we sat with other students and/or Siemens/CollegeBoard/sponsoring university staff at every meal, and cheered on each others' kids when they did their presentations. There was also time to go sightsee or take a nap, too. At Siemens, parents were welcome at everything the students did, with the exception of the private session with the judges after the individual presentations. I was nervous about being at Siemens, too, esp. since I am not a scientist (nor do I play one on TV), but we all had plenty to talk about. Part of the reason Siemens likes the parents around is that our enthusiasm carries back to the schools, which helps to increase the recognition and stature of the program.</p>
<p>Come hungry. We were never without food.</p>
<p>This is a different approach from Intel, where they want to see how students manage being completely on their own. This is a clear and stated expectation of Intel; it is a meeting of scientists (albeit 17- and 18-yo ones), not a social networking event. (ha! ha! ha!) Parents are allowed to attend the public presentations (three hours on Sunday, two hours on Monday) and the awards ceremony the following night. </p>
<p>Both are incredible experiences, but each has its own emphasis.</p>
<p>Though the website says that the presentation should be geared towards judges and parents, how complex should we get (e.g. if we are doing a environmental science project, should it delve heavily into chemistry [which was what my discussion section was HEAVILY based off of]?) I guess I'm mainly not sure how much analysis and explanation of my results need to be given, or should i just try to present the results???</p>