*Sigh* Chance Thread

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>Going for the class of 2012...</p>

<p>White male, North Carolina, competitive public school
Need-Based Financial Aid: Yes
Income: ~$25-28K</p>

<p>Projected Major: Astrophysics</p>

<p>Unweighted GPA: 3.92
Weighted GPA: 4.76
Rank: ~14/400-ish</p>

<p>SAT1: 650M/650CR/730W
SATII: 760MathII, 750US, 750 World</p>

<p>AP Scores: US History 5, English: Language 5, Computer Science AB 5</p>

<p>Senior Courseload: AP Calculus BC, AP Statistics, AP German, AP Economics, AP Physics C, Honors English IV</p>

<p>Leadership: Co-founder of Debate Club, President of Chess, German, Democrats
Other EC: Tutor immigrant children in English weekly, Nationally ranked in Chess, ~100 Hours by the time I apply, Service Club, Tutor PreCalc, NHS...</p>

<p>*I've held the same job for 2.5 years now (20 hours a week), and I help support my family in this way; boss loves me and offers to write me a recommendation every time we speak. It would be a fantastic rec too because I am a model employee and am often used to train the newcomers.
*Recommendations should be very good, my GC has known me for about 11 years and my teachers like me rather well...
*I've started my essay about growing up poor and overcoming adversity...don't know if this is a good choice, someone guide me in the right direction</p>

<p>Possible Hooks: First Generation, Trilingual (Ukrainian, Russian, English, and coming very close with German), Poor, born in the Ukraine (citizen of the US), single-parent home, hefty amount of work experience</p>

2

<p>Your SAT is a little low for Swat (the math seems surprising since you did so well on the math SATII), but SATIIs are great, courseload is good, and being trilingual is awesome. Having recs from people that know you well is great as well. You probably have a really interesting story to tell about your immigration, so that would definitely be a good essay choice, as long as it's talking about overcoming adversity and not just about the adversity itself. :]</p>

3

<p>I'm still hoping the ACT goes better for me.</p>

<p>Thank you though. :D</p>

4

<p>Yngwie:</p>

<p>"Chance me" questions are so difficult. Swarthmore "chance me" questions come from a pretty self-selected group. So, I would say that the breakdown I've seen over the years is something like:</p>

<p>5% Yeah, you've got a great shot
90% Competitive, but who knows?
5% Really, you have no prayer</p>

<p>I would say that you fall into the middle group. That's what makes it so frustrating to do "chance me" answers. I want to communicate that, yes, you have some things that would be very attractive to Swarthmore. But, by the same token, I don't want to create false hope from reading a simple laundry list of qualifications.</p>

<p>My advice, as always, is to learn as much as you can about the school, and use that knowledge to be as specific about matching up "your stuff" with the things that make Swarthmore tick on your application.</p>

<p>BTW, with your income level, I would expect you to receive essentially a full ride need-based scholarship if you are accepted. So, you may want to consider early-decision if Swarthmore is your strong first choice.</p>

5

<p>I think you have a good chance, but as interesteddad says, that's not really that helpful of an answer, to be honest. personally, I think an SAT score of 2000 or higher is enough, as long as you have good stats everywhere else (which it seems you have).</p>

6

<p>You'll probably struggle as an astrophysics major at Swarthmore if you can only muster a 650 on your math SATs. Most of the other physics and/or astrophysics majors are likely to have math SAT scores in the upper 700s, if not 800. I'm not saying it's going to be impossible, just that it's going to be a big struggle when everyone else in your classes has more aptitude for math than you and you're working twice as hard as everyone else just to keep up.</p>

7

<p>I think AP Calculus BC is a better determinant of my mathematical ability than the SAT.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

8

<p>

Why do you think that? Calculus is but one small step on the way to mathematical proficiency, whereas the SAT attempts to measure general mathematical aptitude and the ability to learn more in the future. But, that's okay if you don't agree; if you make it into Swarthmore and start work as an astrophysics major, you'll see that getting in was by far and away easiest part of getting a degree in astrophysics from Swarthmore.</p>

9

<p>Sorry, A.E., but I think that's ridiculous. BC calc tests your ability to understand complex concepts and apply them to solve difficult problems. Well, maybe not perfectly, but it's something. The SAT just measures your ability to do simple calculations over and over again as quickly as possible without making careless mistakes. If someone can succeed in BC calc, it certainly doesn't guarantee them success in later math or astrophysics, but I wouldn't be worried about their math SAT. You can be good at math and bad at the SAT.</p>

<p>And by the way, I'm speaking as someone who did very well on the math SAT but struggled (a lot) in BC calc.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
The SAT just measures your ability to do simple calculations over and over again as quickly as possible without making careless mistakes.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Lol, is that what the SAT measures? I guess I've learned something new today.</p>

11

<p>If you feel that the SAT is quintessential to my future as an astrophysicist, that is your perogative.</p>

<p>Obviously, I'm not the best at the SAT Reasoning Test - a 760 on MathII with a 650 to boot, how often does that happen?</p>

12

<p>Prerogative - typo. The last thing I want AE to do is insult my ability to speak by means of a keyboard.</p>

13

<p>The SAT I math/critical reading sections measure 2 things: test-taking ability and memorization. Nothing to do with mathematical aptitude. The AP tests do a much better job of measuring your grasp of a subject (although they are not perfect either - it's still possible to get a 5 on an AP test just by studying and memorizing a lot, but you have to have some basic aptitude in the subject to do that). The math concepts tested on the SAT I are very easy (up to Algebra 2 if I recall correctly) but the College Board tries to catch students by inserting traps, the "guessing penalty", etc. You don't need to be good at math to do well on the SAT I - you just have to read a few guide books and remember all the tips.</p>

14

<p>I wouldn't worry about any of that stuff. Truth be told, neither the SAT nor the Calc AP tests are perfect indicators of aptitude for college level astrophysics and math. The bigger issue is the transition to proof-based math at the college level. But, the time to figure all that out is after you take a college Physics and Math course.</p>

<p>The great thing about a place like Swarthmore is that you are encouraged to find out for yourself and make informed decisions. You might find out that you absolutely love Art History. Stranger things have happened. That's why you don't declare a major until the end of sophmore year.</p>

15

<p>

You started this thread asking for feedback. That's precisely what I gave you; if you can't handle it and take it as an insult, then that's your prerogative, and so be it. My opinion is that someone who can't pull a math SAT score in the upper 700s isn't going to have a fun time in the Swarthmore physics department, and will struggle to stay afloat. I'm about the only person on this forum who is going to tell you that, of course, but I'm also the only person on this forum who doesn't go around sugar-coating his posts. If you really don't believe the SAT math section is a legitimate assessment of your mathematical aptitude and if you really believe the lines people are throwing around here like "the SAT I math/critical reading sections measure 2 things: test-taking ability and memorization" or "the SAT just measures your ability to do simple calculations over and over again as quickly as possible without making careless mistakes," then you could try an alternative like the AHSME and see how you do there, but it's also funny that people so quickly dismiss the metrics colleges have used for decades for admission as being illegitimate indicators of aptitude. Because, like it or not, there is a correlation between a person's SAT math score and the likelihood he will be successful majoring in (astro)physics at a competitive undergraduate institution.</p>

16

<p>

What are you talking about? None of the math courses required for an astrophysics major at nearly any undergraduate institution, Swarthmore included, are "proof-based," as you say. You're talking about things like real analysis or abstract algebra, not linear algebra, vector calculus, differential equations, or the like that are the basis for undergraduate physics work and required for physics majors. Proof-based math really isn't useful until graduate level theoretical physics. In undergraduate physics, it is more about being presented with a problem and then trying to figure out which mathematical tools to apply to solve it. This is still just basic mathematical problem-solving technique, much like the SAT in many ways, where you're faced with a mathematical problem and you have to figure out which tools to use to solve it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The great thing about a place like Swarthmore is that you are encouraged to find out for yourself and make informed decisions. You might find out that you absolutely love Art History. Stranger things have happened. That's why you don't declare a major until the end of sophmore year.

[/quote]

Yes, Yngwie, you may find this feature to your liking, which would definitely be one point in favor of Swarthmore in the event you ended up disliking pursuing an astrophysics major there.</p>