<p>I get it...college is expensive....but it is SO MUCH more expensive, proportionally, than when I went to school, that is is almost out of reach.</p>
<p>My son has gotten super scholarships everywhere he has heard back from so far, but our EFC is still more than 25% of our take home income and that is just crazy. We have some college savings (demolished in the recent crash) but live in a modest house, have 10 year old cars and still have our OWN grad school loans to pay off.</p>
<p>I hate to see the middle class simply priced out of colleges. Sure some schools with huge endowments give great aid, but most schools don't...and most kids go to "most" schools....</p>
<p>Most kids will probably do what I did when I went to college…I lived at home and commuted to college. Not quite the “college experience,” but we were able to afford it.</p>
<p>Others will go to community college and then transfer to a 4 year school. Others will choose a cheaper college than the expensive college they were able to get into. Others will take out loans, or work for a while, or take longer than 4 years to graduate because they are working more than 15 hours a week during the school year.</p>
<p>I feel lucky to live within commuting distance of some great colleges and also have a cheap financial safety that works with our budget. I know that not everyone has these blessings. </p>
<p>Jamiecakes-I know how you’re feeling. We are in about the same situation. Some college savings for our D, however not close to enough. She has narrowed her choices down to 2 colleges. The one she wants is a state college which offered full tution but room and board is killer. The other option is a LAC which offered a full-ride. Either school is good, but I can’t see passing up a full-ride and possibly having to take out student loans. Getting this through to my DD is impossible though. I may never get a new car!</p>
<p>How differently ranked are the LACs and the Universities? Remember, as long as you are paying the bill you have the final say. If your daughter wants the state school for social reasons only, then I would definitely go with the LAC</p>
<p>We seem to be in exactly the same situation. My son is very clear than he will go for the full ride (he looks to have 2 to choose from) from good schools and pass up not so good aid from dream schools (he really wants Univ. of Chicago) if it comes to that, but it hurts to see him be disappointed. I know I can’t protect him from reality…but he has worked so hard, done everything he could do and I want him to have his dream.</p>
<p>It was so much easier to get into good schools and so much cheaper to go to them 20 years ago!</p>
<p>Actually the LAC is third tier, but ranked a lot high then the state school. I know D wants to go to the state school because of social reasons. D says LAC is to small. I think we need to do a pros and cons for both schools. And then tell her if she goes to the state school she’s going to have to get a job to help out.</p>
<p>It is embarrassing to me that with our income, it is so difficult for us to pay for college. Back when I went to college, my father was very much middle class, not considered high income at all. But when the full cost of college was about $6 including room, board, expected expenses, it was still doable. Even then, I was entitled to grants, loans, etc both from the government and the private college I attended. </p>
<p>These days my alma mater would cost about a quarter of our gross income and we are considered well to do. We are not entitled to financial aid at all. It’s mind boggling when you see your kid get offered a merit award of $25K and realize that it isn’t even going to be half the cost of the school. </p>
<p>We are patching it together. A little merit money from the school (not the $25K), a little outside scholarship, we borrow, he borrows, he works… a lot, we scrimp, we take out some from savings, and we do it. Only to start again in a couple of years when the next one goes on to college. We are looking at schools where he can commute, in state options. Doubt he will get much in merit money as he does not test so well. And we hope we don’t qualify for financial aid unless the programs get some real windfalls, cuz then we would really be in trouble. It’s not easy.</p>
<p>Warning: Mild vent to follow and not exactly on the issue</p>
<p>Jamiecakes: it is really expensive.</p>
<p>This is a tough forum to visit because you will read about the many parents who believe that it is their kids right to a top notch education regardless of the cost. It will drive you crazy to read about people who believe only a certain college experience is whats right. You will read about people who have saved from day 1 for their kids education and question why you have not done this too. They will have you questioning your choices and values. </p>
<p>However you stick around long enough and you find that some people here have incomes of $250,000 and more. Others have parents who have helped them along the way so they were able to save more money for their kids education. You really won’t know anyones real background and how they were able to find a way to pay for all this education. You will find few people here telling you they are in debt up to their ears and that they wish they didn’t use up their equity; that they can’t sleep because they are in debt and might lose their jobs.</p>
<p>So I say sit down at the kitchen table with your son or daughter and show them your budget. Talk about the real numbers and educate them. Just because you make $100,000 doesn’t mean you have $100,000 to spend. Show them loan calculators and talk about how their income might be around $35,000 a year when they get out of school and what they will have left to spend after loans.</p>
<p>Each and every family has their own story. So make it work within your story and don’t let this forum work on your mind. There is a great deal of info here and many people with a great deal of knowledge. Just look for what can help you
and don’t get caught up in the “he worked so hard…he deserves the best” bs.</p>
<p>Been wanting to vent that for awhile and felt this was a good time and place to do it although the posts prior to mine have been very good.</p>
<p>Sax: I completely agree with your wise words. My BIL told me we should “find a way” to send my son to the best schools we could. This from someone who had two wealthy (oncologist) parents, never worked in school, was given money for down payments on his houses and cars…you know the story…it makes me insane. That’s NOT our reality. We are the kids of teachers and our teachers ourselves. We just finished grad school ourselves. My son realizes this, wouldn’t ask us to go into debt and knows we wont take out loans…but we live in an affluent community and it is hard to watch him be bravely disappointed.</p>
<p>I just think the well-documented college cost escalations of the past 10 years has made college out of reach for many kids…even the state schools around here are requiring 10k at least for parent contribution.</p>
<p>My son will excel wherever he goes. He is a terrific person and a good student. He doesn’t even particularly like wealth…he is kind of a socialist! But he recognizes that a little wealth would be nice right about now!</p>
<p>For whatever it’s worth: 3 yrs ago our choices ranged from full pay cornell, half tuition merit at Duke and Swarthmore , 6 more schools w/varying aid and his safety was PSU Honors full ride. He is at PSU getting an excellent education and having a hard time finding the time to take advantage of all the excellent opportunities.</p>
<p>my retirement fund is intact and I can sleep at night</p>
<p>Sax, I totally agree with you. It’s important that when high school seniors find out where they get accepted, that they sit down with their parents and discuss their options seriously and realistically. It’s important to consider finances in choosing a college. Some of my friends say that it shouldn’t. I complained to my friend in high school, after I received the financial aid package from UChicago, that it was really a lot of money. By the way, college has traditionally been expensive, but still. UChicago was my #1 choice, Swarthmore my #2 choice by a slim margin. My friend told me that tuition costs shouldn’t be a part of my decision since I’ve gotten into UChicago and I deserve to go. Even if you deserve to go, though, doesn’t mean that it’s a smart decision to go. I’m having a great time at Swarthmore and I think I made a wise decision.</p>
<p>On the sort of flip side, though, my parents, who have not gone to college before, didn’t know much about financing a college education, but they’ve heard of stories of people getting full-ride scholarships, and they thought that if I applied to more scholarships and won them, and by doing a bunch of hard work and stuff, that the college would give me a full ride. I think that for the vast majority of college students, college is expensive, and parents just have to face the fact that they’ll probably have to pay a lot to send their kids to college.</p>
<p>Jamiecakes: I can sympathize with your son if his aid turns out to be unpleasant. I think it’s really important not to develop this, “If only I had gotten more money,” or, “I guess I’ll have to settle for this other school” mindset. It’s hard not to develop such a mindset, and I couldn’t help thinking a lot at first about how this would compare to my vision of what UChicago would be like. Your child should be very excited about wherever he goes. I think just having that pre-college excitement of being proud that you’re going somewhere where you’ll be more independent and where you’ll meet lots of people and have lots of fun is itself part of the college experience.</p>
<p>It is actually better to do your financial research prior to application, so
you don’t waste time and money and create false hopes. Have that sit
down conversation with your child before he or she starts writing those
essays. The object is to end up with several realistic choices come May.</p>
<p>Speedo, I agree 100%. We have had many discussions with our D about the cost of various schools and the implication on her. She knows that without merit money a school is basically not in the running and that has been fine with her from the start.</p>
<p>Sax, I totally agree with the mild rant. I strongly believe that most schools would provide a good education for any child. </p>
<p>This is exactly how I approached the college discussion with my S. Still, we can’t help but hope that his top-choice school comes through with the needed funds. So far, they have offered him a very generous scholarship, but we need to see what the rest of the fin aid package from the school looks like. I wish I could just pay for his college outright, but that isn’t a reality for me. (Very frustrating for me, but it is what it is.)</p>
<p>We are lucky that we live in a state that has merit aid for our state schools for kids who meet the academic/community service requirements. This has been a great backup plan for my S. He carefully looked over all the state schools in our state and chose the one that most closely fit his academic needs (as far as his major, etc.) It has been a real stress reliever to know that my S will go to college due to his hard work, even if it isn’t his top choice. </p>
<p>On a philosophical note: We live in a country where we are bombarded with the ideology that you can be whatever you want to be, you can reach your dreams, etc. While many students from other countries would be thrilled to go to any college, we Americans have an expectation that we should be able to go to our “dream” school. Look at how many people take out huge loans to go to college. They spend a large chunk of their adult life working to pay off those student loans instead of working to create a better life for themselves. Not trying to be judgemental in any way, just an observation about how expensive college can be for most students. S and I discussed his goals, and he decided he doesn’t want to work to pay off loans. He wants to work to buy a nice house, provide for his family, create a retirement for himself that is comfortable, etc. We are very lucky he has the option to go to a state school with tuition already covered.</p>
<p>I have 3 daughters; oldest completed her master’s last May and is currently employed. (Yay!) Middle is a junior at at State University and youngest is a freshman at a private college. In May of their junior year in HS, my husband and I sat them down and related the financial facts of life to them, as it applied to their college education. </p>
<ol>
<li> We will do our very best to help you, but will not go bankrupt doing it.</li>
<li> If you wish to go away to school, we can pay for the State University. If you graduate in 4 years, you will have no loans.</li>
<li> If you choose a private college, you will need to get a substantial scholarship or take out a loan for the difference in cost between your school and the state university.</li>
<li> If you borrow $20,000 per year for 4 years, YOUR monthly college loan payment after graduation will be XXXXX.</li>
</ol>
<p>I think the lightbulb went on after #4. D1 and D2 chose the state university. We live in NY and have many fine state schools and three or four excellent ones. D1 went to one of the best schools in our state system, received a fine education there and was accepted to 4 of the 5 graduate schools she applied to. D2 also chose the state university route and we expect her to graduate next May. D3 chose the private college route, but did received a substantial scholarship at her college, bringing the cost in line with the state university. </p>
<p>Several of D3’s friends were accepted at schools such as BC, Villanova, etc. She toyed with the idea of applying to BC, but after doing her research, concluded she could probably get in, but would not get merit money. She also realized she didn’t want to be burdened with tens of thousands of dollars in school loans. In the end she didn’t apply to BC because she didn’t want to be disappointed if she got in, but couldn’t go for financial reasons. It was her decision, not ours. Last week when she was home for vacation, I overheard her talking to a HS friend who was asking about her school. She said, “I love it there. I couldn’t imagine going anywhere else!” I was really happy to hear that. As parents, I think we all want to do the best for our children. I would have loved to be able to afford BC, if that’s where my daughter wanted to go. But realistically, I could not. The best I could do was lay out the choices and see that she had all the realistic information going into the process, so she could make her own decision.
I think once all the financial realities are laid out, most kids will be able to make a sensible decision. Speedo is correct… much better to do your financial research early, especially in light of the current economy, so kids have REALISTIC choices, not pipe dreams come May.</p>
<p>Targeting schools with merit aid doesn’t necessarily mean all your financial needs will be taken care of. For families that don’t qualify for need-based aid, often they just help out a little (unless you are going for tippy-top awards.) It’s tuition discounting, basically. We insisted on finding at least some, and we didn’t look at super-pricey privates – here in the midwest, there are privates with tuition under $30,000.<br>
We feel we are fortunate too.<br>
If finances made it necessary, we also have many schools that Ds could have commuted to. Not the end of the world, though to some seniors I suppose that would feel like it is close to the end of the world.
College cost less when we were young, but we also expected less from college – from the “experience,” the amenities, etc.</p>
<p>Call me crazy if you must. I am trying to make that dream school happen regardless of the price. Illinois residents and son wants to walk away from an admit to University of Illinois Champaign/Urbana. He wants to go to school in southern California. He has probably little scholarship money at Illinois but in state rates ($25,000 for both tuition/room board). University of California Schools are about $40,000 for out of state. (He got into one of the schools.) With a divorce we parents committed about $25,000 from the two of us. Umm about $15,000 short. Extra $6000 from me, extra $5000 from two years of summer jobs. Maybe we can do it. You only live once. BTW daughter got into UCLA graduate school–paying her own way now, but debt free from undergraduate. She just got an awsome opportunity. I tell my kids to go for it, we will figure out a way. Yea, I’m crazy.</p>
<p>Not so crazy, Lucy. I’m in the same boat with most of you all and I certainly can’t critique the reasoning you’ve shared. But in the case of my two Ds in college, I felt we had to do what we could to allow them, for the first time in their lives, to be among peers who shared their intellectual and artistic passions. As highly motivated small-town, rural kids, they found that the things that made them special also made them anomalies among their peers - it was often a lonely existence. They knew that they were marching to different drummers and understood that there were other kids in other settings who heard those drums too, though they’d never met many of them. The opportunity to immerse themselves in a culture that respects and honors their intellectual energy was something that my wife and I wanted for them, as much as they wanted it for themselves. There’s no doubt that one can find good teaching on just about any campus, but that teaching occupies 15 of their 168 hours each week. The value of those other 153 hours is what changes college students’ lives, and we decided that we and our kids had already invested too much to shortchange that experience.</p>
although the posts prior to mine have been very good.</p>