Professor’s contract not renewed as course is “too hard” for NYU students.
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So ONE professor at ONE school. I would not consider this a “sign of the times”…
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The professors interviewed, from several different places, discuss the “sea change” in higher education in the last 10 years towards viewing students as customers to be appeased, and the students’ lack of rigor post covid.
Apparently they believe it is indeed a sign of the times
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Unfortunately this seems to be line with the “petition” generation and the knee-jerk reaction of administrations to bow to a small minority rather than standing up for a school’s integrity and standards. The real losers are the general population going forward who will be cared for by a generation of physicians (and other professionals such as engineers) produced via less rigorous educational standards.
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I seem to remember signing a whole lot of petitions in high school and college about various issues at the schools. Nothing ever happened with them though.
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I’m thinking that was in the pre-social media era? Back in the dark ages when students didn’t expect As for just showing up and medical residents worked 90+ hr weeks?
Nowadays it’s just easier to capitulate than stand up to a bunch of whiny adolescents.
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I would prefer my eventual physicians spend their time studying harder versus spending time organizing petitions. Just me.
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This not happening any longer is a win for patients. There were studies showing how overworked residents made bad decisions. From what I’ve seen, this applies to other fields too - like truck drivers, etc.
Not all change is bad.
I’m unqualified to know if the students or the prof was “right” in this case, but I know everything one needs to know in med school is taught there, so there shouldn’t be too much of a loss if one school changes - perhaps to match others.
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Might be best if you don’t get an inside look within med schools. We’ve had that recently and our eyes were opened. Petitions weren’t involved, but the attitude among many that they just need to pass X class (with a relatively low bar for passing) gave me the chills.
Getting into med school is tough. Failing out seems to be tough too.
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Just pure speculative opinion, but since NYU is private, the school is more likely to listen to its stakeholders or customers than a public. I can’t imagine publics caring too much about flunking some Orgo students.
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Do we really want some of these students to be our future doctors and medical researchers? NYU, as usual, cares more about collecting tuitions.
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One of the commenters (ejpolk) in the NY Times thread wrote, “Grades aren’t meant to reflect the effort expended on a course. They are meant to reflect the understanding of the material.” I personally think it’s both. The vast majority of the grade is to reflect the understanding of the material. Effort might mean that someone receives a D rather than an F. Enough to forestall someone continuing in the field that would depend upon knowledge of the class, but sufficient to let them get credit for the class.
In reading the article, it appears as though Dr. Jones and the chemistry department made many accommodations, including the recording of 52 lectures for students to review. I suspect that the complaints are largely about the blow to the students’ GPAs and chances for med school. I wonder if they realize that organic chemistry serves that functions at almost all universities I’ve ever heard of. As Dr. Jones “revolutionized” organic to be problem-solving rather than memorization, it seems that a failure in this class is in problem-solving in this domain and thus they should not be moving on in the medical field. At most NYU should have done the retroactive withdrawal and had students retake it with an improved understanding that they would need to study and seek out every resource possible. But the firing and the precedent it set makes me very uneasy for the future of higher ed, particularly at NYU.
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I know many physicians in my family on both my side and my husband’s as well as numerous friends. They unanimously agree that the lack of continuity in training (because residents often leave a case they’re involved with prior to resolution) caused by the reduction in resident hours adversely affects physician experiential knowledge and hands on training. Add in med students who did not legitimately meet the qualifications for acceptance and you end up with less qualified physicians.
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I know this wasn’t your quote but imbedded in the article…,
When it comes to diagnosing life threatening diseases or completing life saving surgeries I am extremely result driven, while at youth sports I care about effort.
These are medical students not 11 year old soccer players who deserve participation trophies for their efforts. The entire purpose of professional advanced degree education is to prepare students for their chosen fields. In many if not most professions results matter, no more so than medicine.
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Nvm, can’t read the article
Sorry, I thought link worked. Google Maitland and NY Times
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That competes with the problem of sleep deprivation. Would most patients want to be attended to by a medical resident who is barely awake?
Wouldn’t most medical schools in the US have a surplus of highly qualified applicants that they admit a small subset from?
Of course, if this incident at NYU is seen as being more widely reflective of NYU, then wouldn’t medical school admission readers view NYU as an undergraduate college where grades are less trustworthy, thereby reducing the chance of medical school admission by NYU undergraduates?
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This was my first thought.
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So I’m sorry, this is not some new indication of some new trend. It is no “oh kid’s today” trend. This is part of a long term trend of many colleges, including some “elite” colleges, which are bowing to pressure from the wealthier parents. My friends and colleagues who are faculty have been complaining about this since the late 1990s. It’s being driven by entitled parents, not by “lazy students”.
To quote:
Many smaller publics are in danger of being shut down or have their budgets cut due to underenrollement, so often it can be an issue at public universities as well.
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That’s an excellent question. How do you determine if they’re highly qualified if their GPA is due to lax grading?
More factors than just sleep deprivation. Less labor means more patients per resident which is increasing errors.