<p>Hi parents, if you could try to help me out with something--</p>
<p>I will have taken 6 AP tests before college app time, with 4 of them having 4-5 scores and 2 most likely scoring 1-3. I plan on withholding those last 2 test scores. </p>
<p>How important are AP test grades on college applications at Top 20 schools? I've seen this question asked in the AP forums and other forums, but the answers seem to range from "AP tests and AP classes are the single most important thing on a transcript" to "I don't think colleges even look at them unless they're good." I suspect the truth is somewhere in between. As parents who are not trying to make themselves feel better by over- or under-exaggerating the scores' significance, what do you all think?</p>
<p>Colleges are interesting in seeing you, the applicant, as someone who challenges himself/herself with taking the most challenging courses your school offers. Getting 4's and 5's add additional validation to your high school transcript. Many fine colleges will give you credit and/or placement for your AP classes (with scores of 4's and 5's). </p>
<p>However, there are some schools that are turning their backs on AP classes, insisting that in no way can a high school AP class approach the rigor of a college class.</p>
<p>As you research possible schools, this is one of the many factors you may want to take into consideration.</p>
<p>Just a question - with so many very excellent schools available, why are you limiting yourself to the supposed "Top Twenty?"</p>
<p>Wow, I don't think my D's AP Test Scores were sent to the college until AFTER she was accepted -- and even then I believe they were only used for course placement. I am pretty sure that "taking the most challenging classes available" was really important for admission.</p>
<p>Um, I am a little concerned about your AP exam scores, because they suggest that AP teaching is weak and/or not taken seriously at your HS. It challenges credulity that AP "grades" for any good student (which I'm sure you are) would be "sometimes great, sometimes awful" one subject to the next. The good news is that you've done YOUR part -- you took the most challenging courses. The bad news is that you may want to retake the AP subjects your freshman year.</p>
<p>NewHope- I can believe the difference in the AP scores. Some of the AP curriculum is terrible- Statistics for one. I have heard from students from various high schools that they don't expect to get over a 2 or 3 on the exam. There are a few others like that. Many high schools do not teach the curriculum effectively, either. If a kid isn't motivated to self-study, the exam score could be very low.<br>
On many college applications you are asked to list your AP classes and what scores you got on the AP exam.</p>
<p>I took two AP tests my junior year (BC Calculus and Physics C, both sections), and did pretty badly. 3 with a 3 subscore in calculus, and a 3 Mech, and 2 E&M in physics. I had A's through both classes, but I still don't test well (standardized tests), and there were some other factors. These were the only AP's on my applications, and I managed to get into Caltech off the waitlist. So, bad AP's don't automatically kill you, you just have to work extremely hard on the rest of your application. My application folder must have been close to 30 pages after the waitlist update (not kidding) of relevant information (abstracts, etc. that I've done).</p>
<p>bethel: I asked specifically about Top 20 schools because I know those schools have basically come to expect AP classes and scores as a given. Currently my favorite school is my state honors college and I already know they view taking an AP class as an achievement in and of itself :).</p>
<p>My AP exam scores ARE quite lopsided, but I suppose I am lopsided. The high scores fall under English/history and a high score in Calculus because the teacher was phenomenal. The low scores are in the sciences, unfortunately not very strong at my school (I received A's in both of those classes). Not to mention, I'm not sure sitting for a four hour exam on one day can accurately represent how much you have learned over several months, but that is basically my not-a-good-test-taker mantra.</p>
<p>Do most colleges require you to send in the College Board transcript or can you self-report? The former option would get pretty pricy, which is another concern of mine.</p>
<p>I am in a similar situation - a student with a few high AP scores and a few low ones. I know at Stanford, you can self-report your scores if you choose to, but I also know that at Harvard they want to see all of your scores to find out everything about you. I'm wondering if I should cancel my Physics C grade :-</p>
<p>Phoenix: If you choose to withhold a score, I thought there was no possible way for a college to see it unless you wanted it to. If Harvard wants to see all of your scores, won't a withheld grade and a canceled grade be roughly the same thing, or am I missing something? (I guess it's a good thing I'm not considering Harvard!)</p>
<p>I understand it is your test taking mantra:</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm not sure sitting for a four hour exam on one day can accurately represent how much you have learned over several months
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In college there are many classes, particularly the initial survey classes, that rely heavily on testing. Some where the final is worth more than 50% of the grade.</p>
<p>IF HS don't want to release class rank or give misleading information (multiple valedictorians, grade ranges), and if grading scales across the country are confusing and if elite schools want more than SAT1 data (math, for example, beyond sophomore year), then AP is a great common denominator. BTW If you don't send your scores in, aren't you telling the school you did badly? Why would you assume a school would reward for uncertainty? Whether you like it or not, AP is quite justifiably a factor in admissions. Elite schools will have a curricula that will require facility at a high level in many subject areas. Why would you want to go to such a place if you are having a hard time with AP (elite colleges will be much more demanding). Perhaps the data is telling you something.</p>
<p>There are several issues involving APs and they are all mixed up here.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The use of APs for admission: The most selective colleges value the fact that students have taken AP classes as a sign that they have challenged themselves. Students are expected to self-report their AP scores on the application and may choose to withhold their low scores. The most selective schools only care for scores of 4 & 5.
In the summer of senior year, in other words, AFTER admission decisions have been made, an official AP score report must be sent to the college. In the case of the OP, having 4 AP scores in the 4 & 5 range is very good and will help in the application process.</p></li>
<li><p>AP for credit: Colleges differ in the way they grant credit for AP scores. As noted above, many schools (especially state universities) grant credit for scores of 3 in most subjects. Highly selective colleges which grant credit for AP scores of 4 & 5 differ in which AP exams qualify for credit. For example, Princeton awards only a semester credit each for AP-European history and for AP-US History while Harvard grants a full year (two semesters) credit). One school may grant full credit for AP-Biology, another only half-credit. Applicants should consult the websites of the colleges in which they are interested.
Credit will be granted upon the production of official AP scores.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Institutions that accept AP credit, the number of credits that students can offer to received Advanced Standing differs. Some colleges may allow students to matriculate as juniors. Many others only grant sophomore status, no matter how many Ap credits a student presents.</p>
<p>At many institutions, students who have Advanced Standing can opt for a four year BA/MA degree in their field or to take a Study Abroad year and still graduate with their peers.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>APs for Placement: Not all colleges allow Advanced Standing, no matter how many APs a student has taken and how well s/he has done in the exams. However, AP scores can be used to bypass introductory classes in specific field and into higher level courses. For example, the Calculus-intense version of introductory Physics at Harvard, Physics 16 has an AP-score of 5 in AP-Physics C as a pre-requisite.<br>
Many colleges also administer placement tests during freshman orientation which can also lead to a student being placed out of introductory classes.</p></li>
<li><p>Should students take AP classes? There has been much criticism of the AP curriculum (including by me). Nonetheless, AP classes are often the most rigorous and challenging classes available at a student's school (setting aside the IB program). In that case, the student would be well advised to take the AP class for the sake of the rigor of the course and the ability to claim having taken the most challenging curriculum. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Schools that do not offer AP classes fall into two categories: mediocre schools and the most challenging schools. The mediocre schools do not offer AP classes for obvious reasons. More challenging schools, usually to be found in affluent areas, prefer to offer their own curriculum which they consider to be more in-depth, more college-like than the standard AP curriculum. Nonetheless, most of their students do take the AP exams and these schools tend to be well-known to the admissions offices of highly selective colleges, thus insulating their students from the supposition that they did not avail themselves of the most challenging classes their school had to offer.</p>
<p>My D took a bunch of AP courses but never took any AP tests.Personally I told her AP exams are silly-nothing wrong with starting your college career with a few courses which are easy for you.Get some good grades right off the get go-
I think the selective schools want to see that you took the most challenging courses and did well.I think they could care less about an AP score</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think the selective schools want to see that you took the most challenging courses and did well.I think they could care less about an AP score
[/quote]
</p>
<p>NOT TRUE! See my post above, points 2 & 3.<br>
A majority of students matriculate at HYP with enough credits for Advanced Standing. Whether they choose to exercise that option is up to them. My S was eligible and chose not to take AS. To qualify for AS, a student must score 5 on 4 AP exams covering full year curricula. So the score DOES matter.</p>
<p>I'm sorry but the logic of what you are saying totally eludes me.Since admittance is granted to students with the schools NOT knowing the AP scores how do the scores then become relevant in the admissions process ?It seems to be that they are totally irrelevant by definiton</p>
<p>Schools DO know the scores of exams taken in junior year or before. They EXPECT applicants to report them. Look up the application form.</p>
<p>AP course grades are not a good gauge of a student's actual preparation. Some schools give extra weight, some don't. Some AP classes are truly lousy; most of their students do not take the exam, and if they do, they bomb ignominiously. Colleges know that. The AP scores are the one way colleges can feel a degree of confidence in the value of that AP class.</p>
<p>Additionally, students can send photocopies of the AP score report they received for exams taken before senior year. My Ss did so.</p>
<p>I concur with marite -- self report your AP scores in the Other Section of the app (4's and 5's to selective schools, or 3+s to less selective schools and many publics which offer full credit for a 3). Do not pay to send offical score reports nor do you need to pay to withhold. Once accepted to your school of choice, send them all (again, don't pay to withhold), since your chosen college will not rescind for a 2 on an AP test, but they would with D's and F's on a transcript. Note, the Common App does not ask for AP scores, but some college supplements do.</p>
<p>jpro: 1) The AP national exam and score validates the course and the teacher. For example, our HS had one AP teacher (just retired) who the seniors loved since he was as easy and lovable as an elementary school teacher. His AP class was an easy A, and perfect for senioritis. Of course, the students who took the test did horribly -- 1's, 2's and 3's.</p>
<p>2) Just bcos AP scores are not designed to be used in admission (whereas Subject Test scores are), a string of 5's strengthens the application, even if the student has the full intention of taking the similar course in college; and, anyone with 4's and 5's definitely reports those scores, either self-reporting or sending official score reports. Thus, non-seniors should take the AP tests, IMO. (The only reasons that seniors should not is that their chosen college will not give credit for the class or the student plans to repeat it anyway.)</p>
<p>3) Further, since many kids change their major 2-3 times, having some AP credits might help in the future to graduate on time.</p>
<p>bluebayou, thanks for answering about self-reporting on applications. That was one major concern and I am glad to know I don't have to hand over more money to the College Board.</p>
<p>I know that actually getting significant credit for AP exams is getting rarer and rarer. I have no problem with this, because I've sat through six AP classes and I do not believe for one second they were on par with college classes. AP classes at my school just tend to attract the better teachers and the more motivated students, benefits in any classroom. Any credits or honors-classes I might receive for AP test scores, I will consider a surprise gift.</p>
<p>As Marite notes, many schools ask you to self-report your AP scores. A few examples that I know of are: Harvard, Princeton, Williams, Duke, Notre Dame and Boston College. These are all applications that I have actually seen. I would assume they would not ask if it was not important.</p>