Sirens and emergency vehicles

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
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<p>Thanks for your comments, CayugaRed.</p>

<p>Just to add, as a long-time CAAAN chair, I have been in meetings with several administrators and the concern about student mental health and how to respond to the issue is of their utmost concern; it’s not something that they put a band-aid on when a problem arises. As CayugaRed said, many of their programs, including their recent “Students in Distress” program, which trains faculty on noticing the warning signs of students who need support, have been used by other colleges.</p>

<p>I can imagine right now what the staff is going through, thinking of what more could have been done. I know that even more will be done in the future to ensure the well-being of all students, but no matter how hard you try, there’s always going to be someone who goes unnoticed or fails to seek help. The best we can all do is look out for each other, whether in college or when we enter “the real world.”</p>

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<p>First of all, I heard about that article through word of mouth and took an acquaintance’s account as fact. Glad to hear I was wrong to do so and that she’s ok.</p>

<p>I too have had experience with CAPS. In my case, I was worse after meeting with a counselor than before (my issue was not nearly this serious), for reasons I won’t share. I did not know it at the time, but after deciding to sever ties with CAPS and to see a true psychiatrist unassociated with cornell, my conclusion was that the services were extremely inadequate. I almost never made the choice, but to see an actual MD, something you cannot really do through CAPS I don’t believe, was one of the greatest decisions I’ve ever made. </p>

<p>The recommendations you make assume a couple of things. For one: grades are the cause of depression at cornell and that fraternity pressures can do the same. I don’t see any evidence really supports this as the case. This also punishes students who do well in their first semesters.</p>

<p>And lastly, suicidal thoughts, as devastating an effect as they have, are still relatively rare amongst the population. Major depression occurs in about 5% of young people. a fraction of those actually resort to suicide or have thoughts of suicide. Just because many thousands of healthy people graduated from Cornell and had a great time doesn’t mean all is well. Those people ended up fine because they were in the healthy majority. Those who resort to such drastic measures or have even though tabout it occur much less frequently because the condition is naturally rare. My comments were directed towards those that may be more prone to depression</p>

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<p>you can’t blame the school and workload, as bad as some classes might be. if someone killes themself bc of work or grades then there’s clearly underlying issues, bc well balanced people get over it and realize it doesn’t really matter at all</p>

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<p>I have also noticed that the spring semester, due to weather being gray and rainy can be very difficult for those who are not depressed. I had posted something a while back about seasonal affect disorder which can be very serious for people who are not normally depressed.</p>

<p>As a parent, these recent tragedies have hit me hard. I am so glad my kids will be home this week. I just need to hug them right now and remind them that we are always here for them. I am sure that all of the parents of these young men told their kids the same thing and that is what is so scary right now. </p>

<p>I also wished that the ski over Ithaca provided a little more sunlight during the winter months…maybe they need to address this issue and inform students about things they could do to help with this (special lights, regular therapy, regular contact with caring friends, healthy eating, good sleep, and daily excercise).</p>

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<p>I am also very concerned about this matter with a daughter at Cornell. We are all having a very constructive discussion here, and I hope the school is conducting some workshops with the current students to trying to see if more could be done.</p>

<p>I find cadmiumred’s posts highly inappropriate, it is all about her child. If I may be so blunt as to say that I really don’t give a hoot about how many freaking pages your kid needs to write for his/her FWS. It is the same sort of whining she does on the American U parents thread. </p>

<p>It just so happened I came across a report on teenage suicide on TV this weekend. It had nothing to do with Cornell. But in general it is on a rise. They also talked about sympathy suicide, how often when one happens than others may follow. They encourage teens to pay attention to their friends, if anyone should even just mention suicide in passing, it’s important to bring to someone’s attention. </p>

<p>As people have said, it’s usually not just over one particular problem that drives someone to suicide. We, as parents, need to be aware of pressure we put on our kids sometimes. I liked Morrismm’s post and her other post in the Parent’s forum. But young people need to also look at their interactions with their peers - think about what you post on the FB (could it possibly hurt someone’s feelings), maybe stop in to chat with a dorm mate if he/she seem upset about a test or a breakup, if you see someone eating by him/herself ask the person to join you. With our economic down turns, it also has had a lot of negative effect on many families. I can’t help but think some students maybe worried about their family’s ability to pay. </p>

<p>CR2005 was very lucky he had an adviser who made the right decision when CR2005 asked for help, but what if the adviser wasn’t so proactive? I am wondering if Cornell is actively looking into what may have led to those 3 students’ actions. What did they do prior to their suicide? Did they try to reach out to people? Were there signs that were missed? Without playing the blame game, by having some of those answers, maybe the school could come up with more preventive measures - better training of RAs, advisers, or general education of Cornell students on how to handle stress/where to go to when one is depressed.</p>

<p>As a parent, I would like a some communication from Cornell when something like this happens. It would be even better if Cornell would outline some facilities or services it provides to its students, so we could even have a discussion with our kid. I only found out about it through CC. If I didn’t bring it up with my daughter, I am not sure if she would have right away. In speaking with her, she was very upset by it and was trying to process it herself. As a parent, it would be helpful for me to know why my kid is upset in school.</p>

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<p>I agree that much of this thread is a discussion on very important matters. I’m sure the University will look deeply into the specifics of these tragedies and other “near” tragedies they know about from the counseling office, residence halls, and other situations. In my community, a hospital recently did the same regarding similar tragedies in our area. </p>

<p>I like the idea of better education for all - including the ideas that OF mentions: ways to help another student, ways to build a positive community, resources for help when you’re facing emotional problems, ways for parents to support and help their children, common reasons that students do hurt themselves or reach depression in college. . .</p>

<p>I was very happy that I received an email as a parent of a Cornell student explaining the tragedy - that gave me the information I needed when talking to my child about the incident. I have also passed on the information about seasonal disorders related to lack of sunlight that I’ve read about - I hadn’t considered this before since I live in a “gray climate zone,” but if it’s your first time living in the “never-ending gray skies” of the northeast, you might not realize what’s happening and how to deal with it.</p>

<p>I do think it’s great that Cornell expects all freshman to take two physical education classes - that’s a positive step toward optimal mental health. It seems we can all learn from these sad events; and again, my heart aches for the families involved and my love and prayers go out to them. We are all so concerned because we don’t want to see these things happen to anyone.</p>

<p>This link provides a lot of information about what the University is doing:
<a href=“http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2010/03/13/cornell-community-reacts-recent-student-deaths[/url]”>http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2010/03/13/cornell-community-reacts-recent-student-deaths&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Bottomline: Cornell places too much pressure on the kids whether it is excessive work in classes, the pressure to join frats and their unsavory activities and the excessive administrative red tape for every little thing including housing. Just my opinion.</p>

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<p>Perhaps this is the catch. Students must seek it out. </p>

<p>This is not unique to Cornell, but it is a significant change from high school, where teachers and parents were in a position to be more proactive about getting help for students who appeared to have serious problems. Cornell is unique only in that its physical setting allows for especially spectacular suicides.</p>

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<p>You’re right. The recommendations I make don’t really have much to do mental health per se, but they are proactive policies that could help to build a stronger community, and subsequently, a better social safety net for students.</p>

<p>And I don’t think first semester grades should matter at all. If you don’t believe me, ask the students at MIT. It’s not like you won’t still be getting grades on all of your assignments and gaining the attention of professors if you do well.</p>

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<p>cadmiumred…have you considered that Cornell may not be the best environment for your son? I understand that you are concerned about the amount of work that students are assigned, but did you and your son not understand that when he applied and accepted? Instead of addressing the work as overwhelming or without merit it may be more important to discuss whether your son is in the right major or the right school within the university. Your son is a freshman so I especially think it is important to say this to you. Please know that I am not being disrespectful to your concerns but I do think that your concerns should be addressed for your particular child. Cornell is not for everyone, and I myself remember having similar feelings at one point during freshman year. I never found myself saying that such and such work was unnecessary, or that the teachers were not qualified. I think when you make statements like that you will only serve to ruffle peoples feathers.</p>

<p>Our kids, all of them, knew why they chose Cornell and they worked very hard to get there. When your child complains to you, consider that others have survived the work and so can he. If the complaints continue and there seems to be unhappiness with his education and his work load than it may be time to reevaluate what is right for him. </p>

<p>As far as pressure to join frats/sororities there is no one forcing any freshman to do what they do not want to do. Again, I understand what you are trying to say but it is the way that you are saying it that may be upsetting to people. I agree that joining Greek life would probably be best soph year and maybe that is something that could be addressed. You bring up a couple good points but I disagree with some of your reasoning.</p>

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<p>Momma-three:</p>

<p>My son can handle Cornell. You are missing the point that the FWS was totally misrepresented in terms of what work is expected. Just look at their website with established guidelines. That is how a rational, logical thinking student makes decisions on what to pick for their schedules. The courses should not be completely misrepresented. The grad student teaching it,changes the syllabus daily, e-mailing and annoying the kids everyday, obviously an incompetent. The kids are are simply afraid to complain. Cornell is too overpowering, mismanaged, as evidenced by what has gone on over the past three weeks. My son has 4 grad students teaching 4 of the 5 courses he is taking. Not one has taught before at any institution. This is not appropriate for a school the caliber as you claim momma-three. It just adds to the pressures of these students by having inept grad students teaching freshman and advanced courses who cannot grade fairly or give a fair and reasonable amount of work. Just my opinion.</p>

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<p>Momma-three:</p>

<p>In response to you comments about the frats: What I have said should hopefully raise some eyebrows. The minute my son stepped into his new freshman dorm room this past fall, a frat boy was there, whom we did not know, in the room promoting his frat. Subsequently, my son received numerous unsolicited e-mails from different frats all through first semester, about going to drinking events and to a Gambling casino, nearby, called something like Turning Point. How could Cornell possibly condone this??? We were absolutely shocked!!! If they let this go on then, why should anyone be surprised about what happened to those poor boys, may they rest in peace. What kind of environment is this really??? My son was made to feel by his roommate and others that you were socially inept if you were not involved in this hideous frat scene, which by the way is sexist and antiquated.</p>

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<p>If I read my lifespan psych book correctly, late adolescence is a time of life when underlying psychological issues often become manifest. There is every type of stress imaginable on kids at this stage, as they try to find their way academically, vocationally, socially, etc. There is actually a named syndrome “first year adjustment reaction”, IIRC, describing a battery of malreactions relating to adjustment to college.</p>

<p>Some people who are depressed tend to overreact to anything negative that happens to them. For such people getting a C on a bio prelim can be perceived as if it is a major life tragedy. Ditto for adverse occurences in one’s social life.</p>

<p>Cornell does not cause anyone to commit suicide.It does, however, provide plenty of opportunities for negative things to happen. And some rather spectacular vistas for those wishing to “make a statement”.</p>

<p>Of course each of these are major tragedies. I still remember, when I attended, an alum’s daughter went over the suspension bridge, that prompted them to put those steep bars on it. Unfortunately, though it may impede the view for the rest of us, physical barriers may help. Of course it will not completely stop it, this happens at campuses all over, for mostly the same reasons.</p>

<p>Cornell is not the best college choice for students who are known to exhibit symptoms of depression. IMO. Though the same can be said for other top colleges where high academic standards are the norm.</p>

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<p>cadmiumred</p>

<p>I have two kids at Cornell and between the two that makes 6 years of experience thus far. I don’t know what college your son is enrolled in but with a change in major my kids experience has been with three schools within the university. Neither of my sons have had your sons experience. When they have had TAs they speak of them with great respect as being very competent sometimes more so than the professor. </p>

<p>I also find that if kids have a relationship with their parents of complaining and placing blame it doesn’t go away in college. I have a friend whose daughter is now attending her third university in three years. Every school this kid goes to is full of lousy professors, rotten roommates, and drunken kids. My daughter went to HS with her, and told me this kid was like this all through highschool. She is an only child that just can’t be happy unless everything goes her way and she has everything to herself.</p>

<p>I am sorry your sons experience has been less than satisfying. I hope he is able to resolve some of these issues. No one should be unhappy about so many things when they are attending college.</p>

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<p>I agree with monydad. My son is a freshman studying Economics in A&S. One of the kid who died this year took the same Econ course with my son last semeter. He even saw the body when he passed the bridge. When my son called me, I listened to him and tried to say something positive. However, three times on a row, I start to lose confidence in Cornell. I start to worry.</p>

<p>I am not sure how much help a Cornell student received when they have trouble academically. I watched my friend’s kid who was flunked by Cornell years ago. According to my friend, Cornell did not seem to offer enough help. He simply chose a wrong major. I saw the same case in another college, the school let the failing student stay and try another major.</p>

<p>I saw some of the other top colleges use pass/fail system, at least for the non-major couses. It can not only release the pressure, but also encourage a student to try something they are not sure about. </p>

<p>Don’t take me wrong, my son did very well in his first semember. He got 2 A+ and 3 A. However, I saw how the grading were given. To beat the curve, you have to beat your classmates. My son’s TA posted the class average/mean/max/min scores. There are 300+ students took the same test. I always wandered what would happen to the students who got bad grades.</p>

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<p>^^^
Yes, what you say is true regarding the grading system. Our kids at Cornell are always up against the mean. I don’t know if it is like this at most schools but I can attest to the fact that it is not like that at every school within the Ivy League. Is the pressure greater at Cornell? As a parent it seems to be since my friends kids are not experiencing the same thing at their schools. I don’t know what the answer is and I think that is what makes suicide so horrible…there just aren’t any answers and it can’t be reasoned out. I think we all wish that someone could say something that could make things clear but that just can’t happen. </p>

<p>My sons were top students prior to Cornell, and it took getting used to that their grades were not going to be the type of grades they had in HS. They have seemed to accept that they are not at the top of the class anymore…it is a humbling experience. I don’t think either of my kids would trade their time at Cornell for any other school.</p>

<p>Cayugared…my son at MIT really appreciated his pass/fail time. It gave him a chance to really ajust to the demands. This might be something that Cornell considers at some point.</p>

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<p>cadmiumred just really likes to complain. A lot. At every school. For every reason.
No wonder her children are the same way.</p>

<p>I know several fraternity brothers who absolutely love their experiences. I also know all of my non-greek friends who never felt unduly pressured to join a frat.
If your son feels like only geeks don’t join frats, maybe he needs to grow some balls so he can deal with recruitment. Because that’s what it’s called, RECRUITING. That’s why he got e-mails. If he doesn’t want the e-mails make a SPAM FILTER.</p>

<p>Ugh, I am so tired of you trivializing the pressures of Cornell as “they have TAs teaching! OMG!” and “a lot of people join frats!”</p>

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<p>Just because your child doesn’t like the system does not mean that its a bad system. Grading on a curve is just how scoring is done such that grades reflect ones performance comparatively speaking. The greek system has exhibited a positive influence on my life so far and if anything it has pushed me further away from depression and closer towards a feeling of acceptance.</p>

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<p>maybe your son needs to look up the professors/people who will be teaching the classes he will be teaching. there’s a concept called “choosing your classes wisely” and it might be a good thing to employ eventually if he dislikes getting taught by TAs so much. i’ve only ever been taught by 1 TA in my two years at cornell so far (bc i purposely enroll in classes that have good professors - i don’t necessarily give a crap about what the timing is), and it was for a FWS. while it was his first class that he had ever taught, he was also extremely engaging and willing to help the students. it also didn’t hurt that he was a D.Phil candidate at Oxford on sabbatical for a year here at Cornell (he taught a philosophy FWS). </p>

<p>cadmiumred, i feel like you think cornell is out to fail everyone; because while all of the students might b<em>tch and moan a few times about the courseload, and the professors being “unreasonable” (which usually isn’t the case, and we only say that because we are dramatic teenagers), we all know that they’re not out to get us, but to teach us as much as they can given the course content, structure and timing. maybe your son needs a different type of environment than cornell, especially if, by your posts, he’s struggling/unhappy with the large classes. you and your son should have known, coming into cornell, that it’s a large research institution, which added to its large size means that it will undoubtedly have large classes, and that professors aren’t going to be holding your son’s hand throughout the class. i was on a committee that interviewed prospective professors for a position in my department, and one of the candidates said something really interesting: “if you want a good TEACHER go to drexel, they have ‘professors’ who are willing to teach and communicate closely with students, because they like teaching more than they like research. they will teach you what the textbook says and they will do a damn good job at it. if you want a good PROFESSOR, one who splits his time between research and teaching, go to [cornell</em>]. they will be innovative and not necessarily teach you what the textbook says, instead you will need to do that yourself, but they will keep you informed on the latest research that they or their friends are doing in the related field.” (*he was a candidate from upenn and utilized upenn as an example, but obviously cornell can be substituted just as accurately).</p>

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<p>Cadmiumred,
I hope that by reading these posts, you get a different perspective. I am the parent of a Cornell senior majoring in engineering. The major & courses are intense, but my child has navigated his own way & has thrived. When you keep blaming everything & everyone, from TAs, courses & frats for putting pressure on your son, you show that you don’t understand how pressure works. Not everyone in every class feels the same pressure & people chose what’s important to them. What that means is that it is individual, so please stop blaming everyone. </p>

<p>You are right - what you wrote about the frats pressuring your son did raise some eyebrows. But it seems that the eyebrows are being raised because we’re surprised at you. If your son doesn’t want to partake, all he has to do is “just say no.” Where’s the pressure here? Throughout his life he will have many temptations & growing up is learning how to know what’s right & learn who you are. BTW, my child is also involved in greek life & I am aware of what goes on, but no one has a gun to anyone’s head so that they join. </p>

<p>While I am an involved parent & speak frequently with my child & know about the courses, grades, etc. I listen & give my opinion WHEN ASKED. When my opinion is asked for, that doesn’t mean I expect my child to do exactly what I think. I recognize the need for him to form his own opinion. As a result, my child & I are close & I frequently am asked for my opinion. I think you are overinvolved, know too many details (“…changes the syllabus daily, e-mailing and annoying the kids everyday, obviously an incompetent…”). Why does your son have the need to tell you all this? Even though you many not mean to, I think you are putting too much pressure on your son. Not the TAs, the courses, the frats, or whatever else you want to blame. I trust that your intentions are good & urge you to step back.</p>

<p>Your statement,“Cornell is too overpowering, mismanaged, as evidenced by what has gone on over the past three weeks” reeks of ignorance & shows total lack of respect for the recent tragedies.</p>