<p>I also see this as the possibility of your son blaming his lack of success, academic or otherwise on things that are out of his control so that you do not get mad at him when he does not pull down straight A’s (or have tons of friends or whatever the issue is) when in reality most of his problems are of his own doing (IE, its not the TA’s fault he scored poorly on the exam, he just should have studied harder).</p>
<p>The posters who have criticized my responses are missing the obvious. Three suicides in a short time are extremely serious. I am relating my son’s experiences with grade pressure and frats, because they may correlate to the feelings and experiences of the other students. We need and the school needs to figure out what is going on and fast. CHenrix, my son doesn’t need to get drunk and attend gambling casinos to become a man as you suggest. If that 's what the "frat brothers think and do,this just illustrates my point of how out of touch, ignorant, and out of date the frat scene really is. My son was heavily pressured to engage in it, the minute we moved him in as I already explained. My son has handled his first semester just fine, but I could see how others could be affected adversely. The “brothers” are so intelligent trying to encourage a 17 year to drink and go to a gambling casino. Genius.</p>
<p>I wish I knew more about how minds work now, and I hope the people in charge know what they’re doing. I do not have any first-hand experience with depression myself, but I am wondering if these expressions of “we love you” and the smiley face posters on the bridges seem ridiculously trite to someone who is actually depressed. I am pretty sure that when someone has killed him or herself, attributing it to academic or social stress as problems is completely missing the point - even someone who is very successful can become deeply depressed. As I said, I have never experienced any of this myself, but I have read others’ accounts of depression in the past because I think it’s important to know what people around me might be suffering.
Also, it’s easy to say they’re checking on everyone in campus residence buildings, but it’s not like it’s actually happening. Someone knocked on my door late last yesterday evening, but in the couple of seconds it took for me to get up and over to the door, the person had already moved on. I mostly wanted to thank whoever it was for going around and providing such a service, but I didn’t even get a chance. I think this is also significant because I have a lifestyle almost identical to someone who could need help: I don’t have many friends, I often eat alone, and I struggle in some of my classes. Fortunately, I have connected with at least a few really fantastic people, and even when I’m on my own, I am fully content with life and Cornell. </p>
<p>The pragmatism of posting security on bridges and opening CAPS on Saturday seems to me to be exactly what is needed, and I’m glad Cornell took those measures. The large-font email they sent to us a few hours ago that says, among other bullet points, “Suicide is not a solution. It can be prevented” and “Help is available. It works. Asking for help is the right thing to do.” is also much appreciated.</p>
<p>Cadmiumred-- I have to agree w/ the above posters. Your posts sound trivial and whiny and, as momoftwoteens said, shows total lack of respect for the recent tragedies.</p>
<p>Cornell is an excellent school. It is also an academically difficult school. It is not a perfect school. What school is? But one can and will, if a student does their part, get a great education. Grades are not handed out. A degree is not awarded just because we are paying big bucks. Most students actually leave this school highly educated adults capable of independent thought with a strong work ethic. </p>
<p>I do not believe my D, a senior, has had any course taught by a TA. Yes the recitations, but not the lectures. Maybe there was one or two. She never said. But I did hear about some great professors, well known in their fields. I also heard about some she didn’t like so much.</p>
<p>My D also did not join a sorority. If she got recruited via email, she knew about the delete key. If she got asked to go somewhere and didn’t want to, she knew how to say no. There are more students not associated w/ the greek system than with at Cornell. I do not understand how your son was pressured. Was he “invited” to something? Twice? Oh my.</p>
<p>Cornell is not to blame for these tragic suicides. These students (as did Marie Osmond’s son) must have had many troubling issues going on in their lives. The important thing is to try and identify when someone needs help and actually reach out and offer an ear or some kind of support. Something very small could make a big difference in another person’s life.</p>
<p>And once again cadmiumred, you show you do not know how to read.</p>
<p>Three suicides in a short period is more coincidence of timing than anything else.
There has been no change in policy, no more undue stressors, no long stretch of ugly weather, to make this time any more likely than any other time. That makes the fact that 3 have occurred so shortly merely a coincidence.
The fact that you want to blame it on something is more just your own need to point the finger than any inadequacy on the part of Cornell.</p>
<p>And I never suggested your son needed to get drunk nor attend a casino to be a man. I said he needed to grow some balls if being recruited to makes him so damn uncomfortable.
But you’re not going to read this either. You’ll see I mentioned your name, then your eyes will glaze over while your robotic mind comes up with your next series of retorts.</p>
<p>In fact, I can predict them now: “Frats suck! TAs suck! There needs to be more ass kissing! Frats are so out of touch, antiquated, sexist. And TAs are so ignorant and uninformed!”</p>
<p>As to the triviality of measures such as the “we love you” and the smiley faces. As a student who was clinically depressed before I came to Cornell, I can tell you that at least personally, these are things that help. The entire problem with clinical depression is the negative aggressive cycle that you default into. Your own sadness fuels your own hopelessness which refuels your sadness. It’s this that causes the terrible downward spiral.</p>
<p>But things such as “you are loved” and happy posters break the cycle. Even if the depressive cycle starts up again in a few minutes, you are back at the top of the spiral, and not mid-way through it.</p>
<p>Cadmiumred, Please, YOU are missing the point. This is your son’s college experience, not yours. Please let your son decide for HIMSELF what he needs!!! “My son doesn’t need to get drunk and attend gambling casinos to become a man.” You are treating your son like a little kid, please let him think for himself!!</p>
<p>“I am relating my son’s experiences with grade pressure and frats, because they may correlate to the feelings and experiences of the other students.” Unlikely, because these are YOUR concerns, not your son’s & I doubt other college freshmen view invites from frats as pressure</p>
<p>You are also completely out of touch & have no insight into depression & suicide & YOU are missing the obvious. You say that your posts are misunderstood, but you then go on once again to talk about drinking & gambling casinos & the pressure to join a frat and then ramble on how that could adversely affect students & result in suicide is plain stupidity.</p>
<p>If Cornell is doing its job, why are three kids gone, may they rest in peace!</p>
<p>You are all saying:</p>
<p>The pressure at Cornell is well, just expected. You need to best a curve, and well, inexperienced kids just out of grad school are teaching your classes, not professors doing research.</p>
<p>Frats heavily pressuring 17 year olds to join a boy’s club, i.e., frat, to drink and attend gambling casinos in a nearby is well, ok. Just say no. It’s o.k. It’s expected.</p>
<p>The minute you move into your fresh new dorm room, a frat boy is there to push you into joining a “group” to belong because you just “need” to belong. Drinking and gambling nicluded You are only 17 and just moved into college trying to adjust.</p>
<p>The first semester a freshman hangs himself. May he rest in peace.</p>
<p>The second semester 3 kids including a freshman jump off of a bridge May they rest in peace.</p>
<p>Just coincidence??? I am not trivializing at all. I am trying to get to the root of it.</p>
<p>The pressures are expected, that is exactly what we are trying to tell you!</p>
<p>The pressures are so expected, that Cornell offers a variety of services to HANDLE them!</p>
<p>If the pressures were unexpected, then Cornell wouldn’t be able to help in any way. When are are trying to tell you THEY DO.
And yes, fraternities drink. Teenagers drink. Guys drink. And guess what, they are also SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS. They live by engaging younger students in SOCIAL BEHAVIORS. If your son has an issue with either of those behaviors, like you so do, then he has the right to say NO. Plenty of students (in fact most students - 66%) choose NOT to participate in these events. It is not Cornell’s job to chastise the fraternities for recruiting. It is each and every student’s job to make sure he is comfortable enough in his or her own shoes to be able to say no to things he or she is not comfortable with. </p>
<p>And yes, classes are graded on curves. Because professors have found it’s the best way to pull the best learning environment out of the students. There is a huge balance between trying to get good challenging academics and the need to blow smoke up student’s ass so they feel good about themselves. And teachers do the best that they can to try to help students out without compromising their own professional integrity. It’s not right to give everyone a B and above if some students clearly do not deserve the grade. This is why Cornell offers academic help services as well. To try to help out the students who are struggling.</p>
<p>I doubt these boys killed themselves because their professors were TAs. And considering one of them was a junior, non-greek, the other a sophomore non-greek, they have already PASSED the pressures of joining a frat. </p>
<p>So can you stop being your son’s worst nightmare of a helicopter parent and PLEASE stop projecting the things you want Cornell to change on this serious topic?</p>
<p>These are just few posts from the AU forum to show some of parents’ reactions to some of CR posts. CR has a daughter there, and parents are asking her if she should consider to transfer her daughter out of AU because she is so unhappy there. I think we should stop feeding her.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/american-university/809150-new-au-parents-thread-25.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/american-university/809150-new-au-parents-thread-25.html</a></p>
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<p>It’s really good to hear that about the signs, chendrix. I have been wondering for a while how those sorts of messages come off, but I couldn’t figure out a place where I could find out if they are appropriate. Your description of how they can make that momentary difference makes sense. I’m very relieved that my concerns were unwarranted.</p>
<p>While not a student at Cornell, I know students there and I would surmise that their stress is similar to most top colleges and Universities… and just as an aside, my very high achieving niece attended Reed, who does not offer grades for at least the first semester (could be the first year), however, every single kid knows exactly how they are doing and freaking out all the same.</p>
<p>My question is… did any of these three individuals leave notes to give some explanation of their situation and state of mind? And I also wonder if perhaps they have upped some sort of security staff in the areas. All I am thinking is, if it seemed “easy” for someome to end their life, than others might copy the behavior thinking, “hey, it worked for them.” I have no illusion that there is a lot of mental illness and even kids with special learning issues that seem to just not be able to take certain stressors as they pile up. </p>
<p>For whatever reason, Cornell has been hit particularly hard this year and it is beyond heartbreaking for all of the families involved.</p>
<p>I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again:</p>
<p>Frats do not cause suicide</p>
<p>TAs do not cause suicide</p>
<p>Who said you have to “best a curve”? You did. Not everyone can (that’s the definition of a curve) I think YOU are putting the pressure on.</p>
<p>Life is full of pressure: High school, the SATs, college acceptances, getting a job. It’s all about how one takes it & one’s outlook. </p>
<p>You keep repeating the same thing & continue to show your complete lack of understanding. NO ONE IS FORCING YOUR SON TO JOIN A FRAT!!! Who said that’s the only way to belong? You have serious misconceptions & frankly, they’re beginning to concern/scare me.</p>
<p>“The minute you move into your fresh new dorm room, a frat boy is there to push you into joining a “group” to belong because you just “need” to belong. Drinking and gambling nicluded You are only 17 and just moved into college trying to adjust.”</p>
<p>And once again, you are lumping many things together & it shows your ignorance. You are also being disrespectful to those who just passed. I don’t know you, but I’d like to apologize for your outrageous remarks to the friends & families of the deceased. My thoughts & prayers are with you at this time.</p>
<p>CHendrix;You do not know exactly why these boys took their own lives. You cannot discount the pressures I mentioned unless you know all of the facts. Maybe the pressures I mentioned applied to one boy, but not the others. You do not know. We do know that 4 suicides have occurred in the Cornell community and that is disheartening. We as parents have a right to know the full story so we can stop the speculating. Old fort: At least I have the fortitude to tell the truth regardless of what others want to deny. I hope that this type of tragedy never happens to your kids. However we need to examine the situation thoroughly for their sakes. Maybe the school needs to change their
methods. They may not work because of these pressure filled times.You don’t need excessive high pressure to succeed in life. You may not need to join a frat to feel like you belong. The world has changed. Maybe Cornell needs to reexamine itself.
high pressure to succeed in lifr</p>
<p>No, we as parents do not need to know. That’s personal for the families & none of your business, nor mine. They deserve the privacy & respect.</p>
<p>If my discussion of academic pressures and social pressures are incorrect as it relates to the tragedies. What is your hypothesis?? That the suicides are a coincidence? Then prove it. If it is purely a manifestation of mental illness, then prove that .Why did the manifestations of mental illness occur at the same time? What is the root cause?</p>
<p>Momoftwoteens: We absolutely well need to know exactly what happened to prevent further occurrences. Are you kidding???</p>
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<p>And yet you insist on placing the blame upon some drawn up theory of negligence on Cornell’s part?</p>
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<p>No. You actually have no right to know about the circumstances surrounding a private death.</p>
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<p>Cornell is in a continual process of re-examing itself, as are other universities. In the last ten years we have seen:</p>
<p>– All freshman on North in a living/learning environment.
– Upperclassmen offered the opportunity to live in West Campus residential houses.
– Development of the ‘Chapters of Excellence Program’
– Posting of median grades on transcripts in an effort to ‘de-stress’ and contextualize student grades.
– Large amounts of investment in tutoring and mentoring programs, especially for first-year students and under-represented minorities.</p>
<p>Additionally, Cornell is seriously considering:</p>
<p>– Further structural changes to the Greek system.
– Instituting campus-wide academic requirements and not letting students affiliate by college until their sophomore year.</p>
<p>Hundreds of thousands of incredibly happy, enthused Cornell alumni demonstrate that Cornell isn’t necessarily doing anything wrong. And while I do think most Cornell administrators will freely admit that the campus is more diverse and demanding than your average college campus, causing ‘campus cohesiveness’ to be an enduring challenge for Cornell, there are lots of benefits to this feature as well.</p>
<p>I’ll leave with one last thought, and it’s that in many ways Cornell is a victim of its own beauty – the gorges offer a fairly dramatic, public option for somebody sick enough to be considering suicide. So the options at other schools tend to be much more private in nature – pills, drugs, etc. I suspect the suicide rate is underreported at a lot of other schools across the country because it is a lot easier to hush up something that happens within the privacy of a dorm room.</p>
<p>Cadmiumred: If you son doesn’t have depression you don’t need to know. Well if he does, guess better to get him out of this pressure cooker.</p>
<p>My daughter is in a sorority. As part of volunteer work with her sorority, she was asked to help out during the move in day. I could imagine my daughter may have engaged in some small talk with new students as she was helping them with their boxes, and it wouldn’t have surprised me if she would have mentioned her positive experience with her sorority. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would have thought my daughter was trying to pressure anyone to join her sorority. It would have been no different than if someone was very involved with orchestra, dance or rock climbing to mention it to new students.</p>
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Okay Cad–what exactly should Cornell have done? Make the classes easier or less work? Sorry, I as a parent, disagree. I want my kid to learn how to succeed and excel in the real world.</p>
<p>Maybe they should have security posted everywhere around campus. Sorry, I do not want my kid attending a “police state” college.</p>
<p>My kid applied to and was accepted to an Ivy League college. I am not shocked at the amount of work or pressure. I am shocked at the parents who are shocked.</p>
<p>The school is not to blame for the suicides.</p>