Skip FAFSA & CSS?

Paying for College
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<p>Let me start by saying that I hate people who don't search a forum before asking a "routine" question so rest assured that I did attempt searching for any similar threads and came up (mostly) empty.</p>

<p>My son has already been accepted into one of the best schools in the country for his desired majors so he has no need of sending in any type of financial info in order to "get in". He's already in.</p>

<p>He has around $50K in UTMAs and another $50K+ in 529's so he's far better funded than most others entering college. As parent's we make $150K+ each year and most pre-admittance software programs show that few (if any) colleges would provide any financial assistance (including one that is ~$60K/year). That is OK with us as we really don't want or expect any "needs-based" funding. </p>

<p>We already know to spend the UTMA funds first and any "excess" cash left over from his 529 will be rolled over into his 10-year old brothers account so (obviously) we want to use only what is absolutely necessary out of his 529. He already has some merit-based scholarships from one school and we are expecting other similar merit based from other schools.</p>

<p>We will not be taking out any student loans. Both myself and my wife paid 100% for our own college educations (working in restaurant's, Sear, etc). We feel that (zero debt) was one of the major reason's we were able to do well once we entered the work force. I know that others must borrow & we can sympathize but this thread is not about those struggles.</p>

<p>Is there even any point in filing either a FAFSA or a CSS when we KNOW we won't qualify for ANY needs-based funding and will not be taking out ANY loans?</p>

<p>Note: we are VERY protective of our financial information and my son's FAFSA information has already been screwed up (long story). We contacted them for a hard copy to correct some 4 weeks ago but it still hasn't arrived so we can't make the correction and send it in.</p>

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<p>Here are the answers typically given to this question on this forum:</p>

<ol>
<li>Some merit scholarships require a FAFSA filing for eligibilty–you can determine whether that applies in your case pretty easily.
2 Some schools (unclear which and how many) don’t permit students to apply for FA in later years if they don’t apply at the start. The concern here is that your family could suffer severe financial reverses sometime in the next four years. Again, you can easily determine if this is the case with your son’s school.</li>
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<p>Once you’ve ruled out the above issues, the only remaining reason to file FAFSA is to be eligible for student loans. As for you and your spouse’s ability to avoid debt, well, college was a lot cheaper back then. Today It’s virtually impossible for a student to pay for his or her own education with part-time jobs unless he or she takes just a few classes a year (assuming no FA or merit awards). It’s perfectly reasonable for a student to take out a moderate amount of loans–an amount that can be paid back out of the student’s anticipated earnings without a significant impact on lifestyle. In fact, many parents insist on some student loans despite being able to afford to cover all college costs in order for the student to have “skin in the game”–a vested interest in graduating with good grades.That’s a family decision that is entirely up to you, but if you do go that route, it would require filing FAFSA.</p>

<p>I think I’ve covered all the issues, but I’m sure someone will jump in if I missed anything.</p>

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<p>MommaJ - Thanks for your forthright reply.</p>

<p>I can appreciate the “skin in the game” aspect and may even require my son to get a part time job to give him that experience so while a part-time gig may be in his future, a student loan is highly unlikely.</p>

<p>In regards to cost today vs. then… There really is little different as I had to work nearly full time (30 hours/week) in order to afford my college and while the costs were less back then, so was income. I was a commission sales guy so I made as much in 30 hours that most of the full timers made in their 40 hours. My wife was luckier in some ways in that most of her college was already funded through her parents but she did still have to work a part time job as a waitress to cover off-campus expenses and the like.</p>

<h1>1 - The college of his preference doesn’t (appear) to require a FAFSA for it’s merit program. I say “appear” because an eMail to that financial aid office came back saying that merit awards had nothing AT ALL to do with them and they simply directed me to departmental groups instead of “bothering” them (e.g. “if you don’t need a loan, we don’t want to bother with you type of attitude” received via eMail. I figure it was an aggravated office worker responding wondering why a (somewhat) wealthy parent was “bothering” them about merit awards.</h1>

<h1>2 - We do have additional alternate reserves available in such an event but point taken and appreciated.</h1>

<p>I guess the bottom line is… completing the FAFSA probably won’t hurt anything even if it IS a PITA to get them to correct their error. Argh!</p>

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<p>It is possible your son would be offered some work-study money if you fill out the financial aid forms. On some campuses the best jobs are work study.</p>

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<p>Intparent - Good point. Didn’t think about potential future “work study”. My wife and I are in agreement that we absolutely do not want him doing any work-study in his 1st year as we want him focusing on grades exclusively but later years he may want to do work-study and we would not want to restrict him from that.</p>

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<p>In a different thread, I responded the other day to a similar comment by thumper1. I said then that I’ve heard this refrain multiple times here on CC, but no one ever mentions any specific colleges that have this policy. In order to better assist future posters, does anyone have any knowledge of specific colleges that will not consider a financial aid application after freshman year if the student has not applied for FA during the admissions process? I’m not saying that such a college does not exist, but if the collective knowledge here on CC can’t name even one, then maybe it’s time to retire this refrain.</p>

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<p>Intparent, work study is only offered to students with financial need. If this student doesn’t have need, he will not be offers work study. WS is limited funding per campus also, and most schools give it to more needy candidates.</p>

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<p>It would be interesting to hear if anyone has actual experience of a dis-allowed financial aid filing. I could not understand why that may have been banned. Financial status typically varies. The work study only being offered to those in need is logical.</p>

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<p>He won’t get work study. You need to have “need” and your son doesnt’ have need. Work-study is a fed program and certainly would not be given to students whose parents are earning those amounts.</p>

<p>I have never heard of a school that doesn’t allow domestic students to apply for aid later IF THERE IS a financial downfall (job loss, death of parent, etc). There are schools that won’t allow int’l students to apply later because too many int’ls have “gamed” the system at need-aware schools for int’l aid. They won’t apply for first year, then spend their $60k in savings, and then apply for lots of aid. </p>

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<p>You are always eligible for federal aid if you qualify for federal aid. As M2K stated, for international students, if you do not apply for financial aid as an incoming freshman, you will not get aid in subsequent years.</p>

<p>Until recent years, Vassar was a school that if you did not apply freshman year, you would be placed to the back of the line for financial aid in subsequent years.</p>

<p>However, there are many schools that will tell you that they live and die by their deadlines, meaning that if your information is not submitted on time, you will not be eligible for institutional aid that school year (unless you have a financial setback) or you will received reduced financial aid. </p>

<p>Example: Brown</p>

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<p>If you think that you will need financial aid, your best bet would be to apply for aid.</p>

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<p>Not true as it depends on what is offered at the school (yes there are some schools (few and far between) that only offer FWS. However, there are 3 different types of “work study” programs and even when the college it self only offers FWS, there are vendors/concessions that have and will hire students who are not necessarily eligible for federal work study .</p>

<p>The Federal Work-Study Program is determined by the student’s financial need and is awarded as part of the financial aid package. Earnings are not applied directly to the tuition bill, but are used by the student to cover costs such as books, personal items, and transportation. FWSP funds may only be used on campus with on-campus employers or with approved off-campus community service employers.</p>

<p>Employment is an alternative form of funding for students who do not qualify for work-study funds, usually for citizenship reasons. Regulation of the Employment program mirrors the FWSP in that a student must show a financial need to be eligible for such funding. Employment funds are not permissible for off-campus use.</p>

<p>Non Work-Study:is for students who may not necessarily be eligible for FWS or employment. In fact a student DOES NOT have to be awarded FWSP or EMPLOYMENT funding in order to work.These positions are usually paid by the school or vendors who work on the campus(ex. food services, book store, etc). Students do not need to demonstrate need for these jobs </p>

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<p>So if an international student has $60k in savings that makes them ineligible for financial aid, and that money is then spent on tuition during freshman and sophomore years, there are schools that will not allow them to apply for financial aid as a junior or senior, assuming no other assets after the $60k is spent?</p>

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<p>Back in the last century, I attended an ivy-peer institution that did not award institutional aid in future years if the student had not applied for aid the freshman year, and that had a formal admit-deny policy: if no institutional aid was awarded your freshman year, you would never be awarded institutional aid. </p>

<p>This kind of thing can change from one year to the next at any given college or university. If you are on the fence about applying for aid, contact the head of the financial aid office, and ask specifically about their policies.</p>

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<p>There is no international aspect to the underlying logic of this particular thread so let’s not “go there” as it’s not applicable to this particular thread. Those interested in international “game play” are more than welcome to start a new thread related to that subject matter. As for this thread, let’s keep the line of discussion focused on the original premise.</p>

<p>Does anyone KNOW of colleges that withhold MERIT scholarships if a FAFSA is not filed? In this particular case, we are talking about University of South Carolina (International Business) which is his 1st choice. Washington State (Pullman) 2nd choice (mostly because it is far away from his parents) or potentially Davidson (about 8 miles from home but is also the ~$60K/year one).</p>

<p>PS - Davidson is one of the one’s who’s online system showed that we would have to cover the entire $240K costs ($60K/year) should he decide to go there absent any MERIT scholarships. As pointed out, we would NOT take out any loans for that amount because we (personally) do not feel that a degree from Davidson would warrant a two-fold increase in starting pay over an IB degree from USC. We DO think that we would qualify for MERIT aid from all schools being considered. Some at lower levels than others and Davidson may even be obtainable via such merit awards. To complication things, Davidson does not use FAFSA. They only use CSS.</p>

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<h1>"There are schools that won’t allow int’l students to apply later because too many int’ls have “gamed” the system at need-aware schools for int’l aid. They won’t apply for first year, then spend their $60k in savings, and then apply for lots of aid.</h1>

<p>So if an international student has $60k in savings that makes them ineligible for financial aid, and that money is then spent on tuition during freshman and sophomore years, there are schools that will not allow them to apply for financial aid as a junior or senior, assuming no other assets after the $60k is spent?"</p>

<p>You’re misunderstanding. The $60k in savings does NOT make them illegible. </p>

<p>Many schools that give aid to int’ls are NEED AWARE. So, an int’l that wants an “edge” for admissions might apply to the school but NOT apply for FA because he can scrape together the $60k to go there for the first year. He does’t want to REVEAL to the school that his family is modest/low income so he can get an admissions edge.</p>

<p>So, then he’s accepted because the school believes that he’s a full pay student (because he didn’t apply for aid, and he showed that he has the $60k for the first year). Then after spending the $60k the first year, the student applies for aid for the remaining years. The need-aware school feels “duped” because it admitted the int’l based on the belief that he was full-pay.</p>

<p>So, those particular schools have “wised up” and will often state that if the int’l does not apply for aid the first year (revealing the family finance situation), then he can’t apply later.</p>

<p>It makes sense.</p>

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<p>You do realize that there are over 4000 colleges in the US. No one is applying to 4000 college. This is where the due diligence on the part of you/your family comes into play. It is you/your family’s responsibility to go to the schools website, carefully read the requirements for financial aid/scholarships- including the fine print for keeping the scholarships. You need to have a clear number in your head as to how much you/your parents are willing to pay or borrow for college (every family is different so one size does not fit all). If you are searching for merit make sure that you know the “fine print” associated with keeping the merit $$.</p>

<p>You need to know if the money is automatically renewable each year.</p>

<p>Is the scholarship for a set amount of money $10,000 or full tuition, half tuition (yes this makes a difference as tuition increases each year). The set amount of $$ does not take into consideration tuition increases where a percentage of tuition scholarship will increase as tuition increases.</p>

<p>Regarding the GPA requirement; Does the student have to meet the gap requirement by the end of the first year or the end of the first semester? Take into consideration that your 4.0 hs kid, may not achieve the 3.75 need to keep his/her scholarship (especially if s/he is in a challenging major). Can also happen in a place where all of the honor students are placed together and will have to battle it our for grade (can happen at colleges that cap the number of A grades that can be given in a section).</p>

<p>What percentage of student lose their scholarship first year?</p>

<p>Is the GPA requirement tied to a specific major? What happens if you/your child decide to change majors?</p>

<p>Is there a phase in process to meet the gap requirement? </p>

<p>If the student does not meet the gap requirement, is there an appeal process? </p>

<p>Should the student lose the scholarship because they failed to make the gap requirement, is there a process for the scholarship to be reinstated should they subsequently meet the gap requirement?</p>

<p>Above all, if you/your child lose the scholarship, will you still be able to afford the school? Search the parents/financial aid forum as there are plenty of students who have lost their scholarships and are now between a rock and a hard place as far as trying to afford the school.</p>

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<p>An example of FAFSA being required for merit aid was Florida Bright Futures. Until this year, a FAFSA was required to be filed. Starting this year it is not. Bright Futures is a merit scholarship.</p>

<p>Because Bright Futures was paid through the schools, the schools had to make sure you’d filed FAFSA and listed that school as a recipient, so it looked liked the school required it to issue merit aid and many people (including me) thought the school’s merit aid also required FAFSA when it probably didn’t.</p>

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<p>Sybbie719 - You do realize that there are over 4000 colleges in the US. No one is applying to 4000 college. This is where the due diligence on the part of you/your family comes into play. It is you/your family’s responsibility to go to the schools website, carefully read the requirements for financial aid/scholarships- including the fine print for keeping the scholarships.
RESPONSE: You may have missed part of this thread. I am the parent, not the student (it is his picture in the avatar so I can understand your confusion. I will try to replace that shortly with my own to reduce future confusion). We HAVE been to the websites and spoken to the colleges but there is no indication that the colleges being considered require FAFSA or CSS for merit awards and therefore is the root of this thread.</p>

<p>You need to have a clear number in your head as to how much you/your parents are willing to pay or borrow for college (every family is different so one size does not fit all). If you are searching for merit make sure that you know the “fine print” associated with keeping the merit $$. You need to know if the money is automatically renewable each year.
RESPONSE: I don’t think I could have been any clearer. The student currently has a working capital of approximately $100K at this point in time. Yes, all the merit awards that we see as potentials are all annual renewals. Some are $20K and others are $70K for the four years.</p>

<p>Regarding the GPA requirement…
RESPONSE: This thread is about filing a FAFSA, not anything related to grades. </p>

<p>Is the GPA requirement tied to a specific major? What happens if you/your child decide to change majors?
RESPONSE: Again irrelevant to this thread</p>

<p>Is there a phase in process to meet the gap requirement?
If the student does not meet the gap requirement, is there an appeal process?
Should the student lose the scholarship because they failed to make the gap requirement, is there a process for the scholarship to be reinstated should they subsequently meet the gap requirement?</p>

<p>RESPONSE: As originally presented in the opening post, in this case, student loans are NOT being considered…EVER</p>

<p>Above all, if you/your child lose the scholarship, will you still be able to afford the school? Search the parents/financial aid forum as there are plenty of students who have lost their scholarships and are now between a rock and a hard place as far as trying to afford the school.
RESPONSE: Any number of options including: (1) He can get a job (like I did) to make up the difference or (2) The investment portfolio could make the same 32% increase in value as it did last year.</p>

<p>In our opinion, #2 occurring is along the same odds as him loosing his scholarship the first year (e.g less than 20%)</p>

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<p>Twoinanddone - Thanks for the specific guidance. I did try asking one of his schools directly but they did not seem to know. Perhaps I need to dig a bit deeper into those details with them prior to the award dates (mid March)</p>

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<p>Wouldn’t schools that are need aware for US students want to apply this policy as well for domestic students, to avoid being “duped” by those students?</p>

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<p>There are far fewer “need aware - meets full need” schools for domestic students. And, as I wrote above, some may require that the domestic students show that a severe incident occurred…job loss or death of parent in order to qualify for aid for later years.</p>