slacking senior

Parents Forum
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<p>As a frequent visitor to this site I have found good info this year during my daughter's college search. I'm hoping for some guidance.</p>

<p>My daughter is not sure what she wants to do regarding major or schools. She has been accepted to the flagship (a top national uni), several less highly ranked state schools, and a few good LACs. She has also received a full tuition scholarship from our small town third tier state school. We can afford to pay for any of these options.</p>

<p>Honestly, the application/visit process was driven by me. My wife pays more attention to the day to day school work, but my daughter and I worked better together on her college process. I was going to stay out of it, and let my daughter do it all herself (I believe in a certain amount of self selection), but was told by multiple other parents that it was too important to leave to her. She submitted apps and essays literally minutes before deadlines, and on visits and tours has always been at the back of the pack, no questions, no opinions. I wonder if she would have applied or visited anywhere if not for my badgering. I rationalized what I felt to be my over involvement by recognizing that in our rural high school the two counselors are overworked, and a minority of students go to college. </p>

<p>She has always been a last minute student, but this year is worse. Again, I rationalized this behavior because of the multiple sports and activities. I also made a mistake in telling her that her school work and grades were her responsibility, and that as long as she was learning and getting good marks, I was satisfied. Last semester , in the final days, she pulled out A's in all but two AP classes, in which she earned Bs. Currently she has a failing grade in one AP class (34% on last AP chem test) and a couple of Ds in other classes. She is busy, and will probably make up the work, but I am concerned. The reality is that even when she has free time, she is not using it for school work.</p>

<p>In case it matters, ACT 31 (no prep), GPA 3.9 (rarely studies)</p>

<p>Here's the point of all this: I don't want her to get off to a rough start, or flunk out, and know that the warning signs were all there, and I didn't act on them. She is welcome to go to our home town third tier uni (tuition free) and transfer if she wants to, but she has a built in bias against it, mainly because less accomplished classmates are accepted there (this is not an issue for me). She says she has worked too hard (I know what your thinking) to settle for staying local.</p>

<p>I've told her she doesn't have to go to any school next year if she doesn't want to. I don't get the sense she is depressed. There are no apparent behavioral issues. She seems happy and content. </p>

<p>Your experience with this type of student, first hand or otherwise, would be appreciated.</p>

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<p>If she gets Ds and Fs, those acceptances would very likely be rescinded.</p>

<p>For what’s worth, we had an agreement with our kids on what kind of GPA they need to maintain for us to pay for their schooling. I think it is a concern your D’s grades could go from 3.9 to Ds and Fs.</p>

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<p>I would be concerned about losing the admission offers and scholarship once midterm grades are seen by the colleges. That is a drastic change in grades. For college she needs good study and time management skills.
It is going to be diffiicult to get by in college without putting in the effort. Aren’t offers contingent on seeing midyear and final grades? </p>

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<p>I’m less worried about rescinded admission offers, and more worried she will pull up grades in the last week of the semester, as she has in the past, and skate by, only to hit the wall next year when the challenges will be much greater. A rescinded offer might be what she needs to understand her habits need to change</p>

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<p>All you can do is explain the possible outcomes of her actions. That realization or awakening has to come from the student. They have to be responsible for their own actions at some point because in college they will have to be selfmotivated and take initiative when parents aren’t there to watch over them. If she is not prepared for that maybe she should discuss a gap year with her school counselor. I am sure her teachers must be concerned about her drastic change in grades. Maybe she needs to hear about the consequences from a teacher or school counselor. It sometimes sounds different when it is not coming from a parent. </p>

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<p>OP - I would be worried too. In high school depending on the teacher, kids can do what your DD is doing and everything turns out ok. However that’s not the way most college classes work. I don’t know if there is anything you can do. Hopefully she will figure it out when she gets to college however she wouldn’t be the first freshman to have a huge reality check when first term grades come out…</p>

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<p>College is very different than high school in that they have very few exams and with very little extra work to boost one’s grade. Students need to be on top of their course work or it would be very hard for them to pull out of low grade. We tell our kids all the time about never fall behind.</p>

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<p>I’d say that if she doesn’t care which school she goes to, pick the local school with the big award.</p>

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<p>I think you’re right to be worried. Every year, when we go over the syllabus, I point out the part where it says “late work will not be accepted,” and every year I am faced with shock when the first deadline passes and zeroes go in the grade book for all the assignments not turned in. Unfortunately, OP, I don’t think there’s anything you can say or do to convince her that things will change. Chances are other students can’t even convince her because she has years of experience to contradict what she’s hearing. </p>

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<p>I have a kid who always pulled it out of the hat the last week of the semester – EVERY single semester in high school. Same with standardized tests – first sitting just okay, but hit it out of the park on the second try when she had to. She got into some great schools, although she was happy to let me drive the process to a large extent, and is attending one this fall. She really scrambled 1st semester to pass all classes (P/F first semester for all classes). But… she squeaked it out again and passed all. Now that this semester is for grades, she has found another gear and so far is looking pretty good on grades (she gave me access to her grade portal when I just asked what her class schedule was – and I didn’t turn it down). But I don’t really talk to her about it… just check about once a week to see if she is about to wash out and waste my money spent on tuition. :slight_smile: She might have picked a major, and is filling out her application this weekend for summer research in that area (yes, last minute, I believe it is due tomorrow).</p>

<p>So I can sympathize with your stress on this. I would suggest she attend some accepted student days at her top few choices this spring. They are separated from you (parent) for almost 24 hours on campus if they stay overnight, and they have to engage more. But you know… I wouldn’t keep her at home at your third tier local college unless you can’t afford another option OR it is truly her first choice. Odds are good she will get her act together when she has to.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the feedback. I’m trying to keep a level head and remember what it was like to have a seventeen year old perspective. I’d ask my parents for advice, but I’d be afraid they might laugh</p>

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<p>D or F grades => she likes the local open admission community college, right?</p>

<p>However, as others have noted, cramming the entire class at the last minute tends to work less well in college than in high school (though many high schools try to prevent that by assigning a lot of graded busy work), although there are certain college student who try that.</p>

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<p>I will add that if she doesn’t change her ways (i.e. little studying, procrastination, low motivation), she will have a rude awakening her first semester. </p>

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<p>Let her know she may not be able to graduate unless she passes her classes. Tell her colleges can rescind their acceptances. Also tell her you will remove perks if she doesn’t do her classwork- and mean it. No social events or other extras unless she shows she has done the work. Remind her you will only pay for that local college if she refuses to put in the work- she HAD worked hard, but her HS days are not over. Perhaps explaining that being in the lead for all but the last lap of a race doesn’t count if you don’t finish strong.</p>

<p>You’re lucky you were able to get her to do those college apps. Son only did those 3 he chose to, sigh. He took on too big a research topic for an AP language class first semester, the teacher extended his time to do a revised topic but he never handed it when it still not complete. This was the only course he needed (4 units of language arts) to graduate, the F she would have given him would have messed him up. We parents found out finals week- she broke her rule and let him hand it in by noon Friday, I drove him the mile to be sure he made it on time. He could have had an A instead of a C. Second semester he got a 5 on the Chemistry AP exam taken in May and a C in June- apparently he didn’t do all of the work. He never was concerned with being a 4.0 student although he achieved that the first 3 semesters. </p>

<p>Do not worry about college based on this year’s behavior. Your D is likely to perform well when she wants to (assuming she has developed good study habits) so postponing college is not a solution. A discussion with her and her guidance counselor is in order. Either she has some issues or needs to hear the finish is important. Something could be going on in her life. I know our son was spending too much of his time online instead of doing the busy work. I don’t miss those parenting days. Let her know you still care and help her get back on track. Maybe she is tired of always doing well and slacking off when she thinks she can. But- you don’t know if she hit the wall and needs help in learning how to study differently this semester. The study skills will serve her well in college.</p>

<p>Son did well in college despite being young. He did not need us to get up on time and do the work.</p>

<p>Good of you to be concerned and not too late to intervene with help from the school. If she is in trouble because of the material being beyond her now is the time to learn how to learn it. If she is slacking off because she is tired of doing the work now is the time to remind her that is not acceptable. Sounds like getting her out of her spiral is indicated. Good luck and best wishes.</p>

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<p>Like others, I had a brilliant son who excelled in squeaking by at the last minute. For him, anything above the minimum necessary was wasted effort. We were biting our nails wondering if he would have the credits to graduate high school. Setting limits with him only backfired. We wound up pulling back entirely, reconciling ourselves to the reality that he might not graduate and that would have to be okay.</p>

<p>But he did graduate and during his senior year he handled his college applications entirely on his own. We knew we would be giving him a lot of independence in sending him away to school and figured, if he couldn’t get it together to do his applications on his own initiative, how in the world would he be ready for the independence of college? So I guess you could say the ability to do his applications on his own was a kind of mini test. We were of course available to answer questions, but it needed to be driven by him.</p>

<p>He did great in college and graduated strong.</p>

<p>Our experience with S1 showed me what other posters are saying: kids often mature and surprise us with what they can do.</p>

<p>However, a red flag goes up with this: </p>

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<p>Why is your wife paying attention to her schoolwork? IMO, by the time they are seniors in high school, they should be completely self-sufficient when it comes to academics. Maybe they’re slacking, maybe they’re excelling, but parents should be letting them sink or swim on their own power. </p>

<p>Did your D get this 3.9 GPA because of your wife’s supervision? What would she have gotten if left to her own devices?</p>

<p>I wonder if your daughter is sending a message that she is not ready to go away to college. Some kids can’t verbally admit it: they show it through dropping grades and indifference to aspects of the college search. </p>

<p>OP, can you and your wife make peace with the idea that your daughter is going to be okay no matter what she does and no matter where she goes, even if that means a community college? I mean, really be at peace about it? And honestly, she will be. There is no particular school or path that will make or break her entire future. </p>

<p>Sometimes we need to pull back and let them find their own path. An attitude of stepping back and letting go might give your D more room to own her process.</p>

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<p>Kids that survived high school in “wing it” mode often struggle in college, especially in the tougher schools/programs. </p>

<p>I also wondered about “My wife pays more attention to the day to day school work”. That concerns me. Parent involvement in college app process is common. It’s a new game for all, and there is lots at stake financially. But college-bound high school seniors should be navigating schoolwork on their own.</p>

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<p>My kids are the masters of procrastination. I saw many high school papers finished in the wee hours of the morning. They continued their habits into college and made it work. My younger son made the Dean’s List last term. I never knew when anything was due in high school, my job was to make sure they were ready to work independently. And to be honest, they probably learned their bad habits from me. I think it’s time for your daughter to learn to work on her own. If she flunks a high school course, she’ll have to take a gap year, not necessarily a bad outcome if she’s not mature enough to handle college without hand-holding.</p>

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<p>The more likely path after flunking senior courses and getting admissions rescinded is to start at a community college.</p>

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<p>good input, especially appreciate those with similar children. I’ll let talk to her again, and maybe ask her to read this thread, and back off and leave it up to her. Cheers</p>

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<p>This happened to a bright young man I know. His first college grades, when he turned in his reports late, or incomplete (expecting an extension) or forgot to turn in some lab report, were a huge shock. (His initial reaction reminded me of Axl Heck’s “You mean I have to drop the class unless (/smile/) I do an extra credit paper, right?”, “No, I mean: drop the class or get an F”) He’s learned his lesson and this semester isn’t making the mistake again. His parents say they don’t recognize him.
You daughter will likely learn by making mistakes, too. Or she’ll step up by the time she’s in college - she may be feeling that some HS assignements are busy work (there’ll be less busy work in college and no grade padding assignements.)
I would advise she picks a supportive, smaller college - smaller classes, professors who meet with students, advisers who know their advisees well and see them often, etc. There’ll be less hand holding than in high school but more supervision/guidance than at a large university. She should sign away her FERPA rights so that you can check her grades, too.
I don’t think the third-tier college is necessarily a good idea because if she’s bright and doing well right now, she may coast through without ever learning how to work hard. Going to a stronger college that’s also supportive would force her to grow in a more productive way (while preventing potential catastrophes as can happen at universities where attendance is not taken etc.)</p>

<p>Current HS grades however are a big problem:
However if that 34% appears on her midyear report it’s grounds for being rescinded! And colleges that rescind her for an F at midyear aren’t going to see her A’s in the final report, because she will not longer be considered. Iif those are the midterm grades sent to colleges she may not get into any college (except the third tier one, and even that may be rescinded) so first call the guidance counselor to know what s/he has sent out for midyear report grades, and then she HAS TO make sure she stays at least above a C in every subject at any time.</p>