<p>I have narrowed my college decision down to two. One being slu which I have already got in to and umkc which I'm waiting back on. Can some one weigh the pros and cons of the programs. Thanks for your help.</p>
<p>i only know about the umkc program, sorry. no idea about SLU.</p>
<p>pros: get your MD in six years</p>
<p>...and that's pretty much the only pro</p>
<p>cons: teaching quality is not that great</p>
<p>since the 4 years of undergrad are squeezed into two, material is very fast-paced and usually the student does not absorb the material as well as he/she can</p>
<p>graduating from the UMKC School of medicine does not attract ANY prestigious residencies</p>
<p>Look at the residency match list for each. This will give you an idea of the type of places/specialties graduates get into. Look at a few years lists. Know that it is entirely up to you how you will do on your boards & grades & LORs. This affects residency placement.</p>
<p>Actually charlieharper some at UMKC DO match into competitive/prestigious residencies.</p>
<p>Yeah I have looked at the match list of both schools and it seems like people get into some competitive places. I was just wondering if there were any huge advantages in one school compared to the other. I know umkc is six year and it saves time which is one big reason I am looking at it as one of my choices. Slu on the other hand is an eight year but it seems more laid back and people seem to enjoy their college life better.</p>
<p>SLU is a better medical school than umkc but there's the 6 yr versus 8 year </p>
<p>I would say SLU is better just because they are pretty generous with aid, and its a very good medical school. However, if time saving is a huge thing, umkc seems like a good idea.</p>
<p>To qualify what charlieharper said, and more also toward oreo45 said, yes there are SOME people who are able to match into "competitive" residencies. However, when looking at prior match lists of both schools, you should see how MANY got into competitive residencies and the distribution location wise.</p>
<p>"graduating from the UMKC School of medicine does not attract ANY prestigious residencies" - you are correct (as I interpret it), doing a six year BA/MD program at UMKC, will not give you a "leg-up" or "advantage" when it comes to residency interviews in competitive specialties. UMKC is certainly not a known name when it comes to competitive residencies, and does not have residency programs in quite a few competitive fields.</p>
<p>Remember competitiveness is not only the actual field but also WHERE and in WHICH PROGRAM a person gets in i.e. Radiology at WashU is not equivalent to Radiology at Podunk U. for example. Even Internal Medicine at Yale is not equivalent to Internal Medicine at KU, with respect to teaching and didactics.</p>
<p>I would say by far SLU is the better program with respect to quality. Not to mention as you take the MCAT, you do have the option of applying to an even better medical school if you desire and you are in St. Louis with WashU closeby, so there is much more research available in St. Louis than in KC.</p>
<p>Do you have to maintain any certain gpa at umkc?
How hard is it to maintain 3.5 at slu? why do so many people, like 60%-70% drop out of med scholars program?
Is it harder to maintain 3.5 at slu, or do well enough at umkc?</p>
<p>my son has gotten in to UMKC/slu med scholar/wash u…northwestern,emory,georgetown.</p>
<p>I am in the same boat load of confusion… 11 days to go</p>
<p>UMKC</p>
<p>PROS: in 6 years… u are a doctor</p>
<pre><code> NO MCAT…No need of any more Padding up of ur resume
cost 230 k
</code></pre>
<p>Cons: saving 2 years is not a big deal in the next 40 years.</p>
<pre><code> 48 weeks of school/year X 6 years…can u do it
15 to 20 % drop out by the end of 2 years.....dont know exact numbers.
Residency match......reasonable...not superb
If u drop out ....no degree
med school ....lowe pack of med schools
</code></pre>
<p>SLU med scholar</p>
<pre><code> Pros:
guaranteed MED school if u maintain 3.5 GPA
Enjoy 4 year college life
4 year college degree
reasonable med school.....Middle of the pack,nationally
beeter residency match than UMKC
Chance of getting in to better med school if u work hard
Cost ..160 k +200k.....My son got some merit scholarship...93 k+200k
Cons:
About 50 % drop out rate… normal for any pre med program
</code></pre>
<p>WashU
pros
best pre med program
4 year degree
Bragging RIGHTS
Great matching if u survive to become a doctor @ wash u only
(Lots of them end Up @ SLU med school)
Cons
Cost 220 K…240 K +220k = 450 k
50 % drop out rate in the 2years
ony 12 % of the remaining accepted @ wash u
50 % of the remaining become MD s</p>
<p>same goes for northwestern,emory</p>
<p>I dont know what is the right thing to do</p>
<p>Appreciate any comments</p>
<p>im deciding between a 6 and 8 year program as well. PSU jefferson and then REMS at Rochester and PPSP at Case.
I think one of my main factors is what I’m going to do with my time in those four years that I won’t get to do in two years at PSU. I’m big into volunteering/research, and if that’s something you’re intrested in, the 6 year program may not let you get to experience that to the fullest. Plus, at an 8 year program you are free to major in whatever you like without the constraints of finishing up pre-med requirements.
Also, once you hit medschool/residency wherever you go, free time is pretty much nonexistent, so those two extra years may be good for your sanity as well.</p>
<p>Thanks Stanley1- Your summary is excellent. </p>
<p>My daughter is on wait list with UMKC but she is going to SLU Medical Scholar Program. It is a difficult decision because there is this “dream sexy school” in her mind. As her parents, we have to assess the reality such as how competitive she will be four years from now versus what she can receive from this SLU decision. It sounds you are in the same boat. The “drop out” rate of SLU is not a “con” because as you said it is the same for premed everywhere, if not worse. </p>
<p>If your kid is truly competitive independently, I mean the kind of talent kids with GPA 4.2 and AP everything with 5.0, the kid who thinks about research a lot, the kid who can ace interviews; he/she can go anywhere and likely enter a better med school. Realistically I have to ask myself how much of my daughterÂ’s success today in high school was from hard work and help from the dedicated parents. Will that level of success transfer to her college success by herself? My daughter is a leader in high school and I supposed she can have a little fun at SLU. With six year UMKC, she probably just study all the time. These are our decision criteria.</p>
<p>In going to SLU’s campus visits and events, I found it is a wonderful school. Even the university is a religious school, it focuses on humanity side. Maybe that is why it is so low key. The medical school is the oldest west of Mississippi but very few people seem to know about it. If you say Saint Louis, people would say Washing U, yeah? That is frustrating I am sure. The SLU med school has a good ranking even exceeding some BS/MD feeder school arrangements. In the long term does it really matter? Probably no. She will be a doctor anyway from a very reputable medical school. If she were to get side-tracked, she will have a SLU degree, not Emory or Vanderbilt. We are not counting on that to happen. </p>
<p>Your point of “Chance of getting into better med school if you work hard” may not be clear to some people. SLU Medical Scholar program said if you choose to apply out to other medical schools, you will be withdrawn from this program meaning you will lose your med school spot that you have already received. When this happens, you will be just a plain “Pre Med” student then. Personally I think this agreement is fair. I guess if my kid will be that competitive, she can choose to drop out of SLU Medical Scholar and apply to Harvard, Vanderbilt or WashU or whatever. I do not get the sense that will happen but in theory it is possible. </p>
<p>Standard medical school admissions seem to be a big “if”. Today my daughter can choose to go to Vanderbilt or Emory for their premed program. Based on my math, in addition to accepting its own medical scholar students, SLU medical school still admits 70 - 80 medical students from all over the country per year. So, I wonder what would be my daughter’s chance of entering SLU Medical School four years from now from outside such as Vanderbilt or Emory?</p>
<p>Many premed students seem to be happy just to receive ONE medical school admission anyway. They don’t have a choice with money matters. I heard some horror stories but I don’t know how difficult it really is if somebody were to enter Vanderbilt or Emory and ended up with no med school, even with reputable GPA 3.5+. Therefore is it sounds probable for students with lower GPA’s to fail to enter any med school from these supposedly better universities? I am curious but truthfully it does not matter to us now in going the SLU route.</p>
<p>Another disadvantage, aside the name recognition, could be cost. State medical school will cost about 35% less. My kid can go to state college for free for the BS degree. Altogether the SLU decision will still cost a lot. I hope in the end she appreciates the benefits of SLU medical scholar program as the better choice.</p>
<p>i too was in the decicison debate of umkc vs. slu…and in the end i choose slu since 6 yrs however “glamorous” it may seem has so many negative sides to it. I think the quality of eduacation gained from slu will surpass that of umkc aas well as the fact that college is an eperience u should enjoy and at umkc i doubt i wouldve been able to do that at all. SLU’s med school too is also not bad at alll by any standars and by far surpasses that of umkc. I think inorder to learn how to become a truly good physician SLU is the better choice and therefore i am happy with my decision…just my 2 cents :)</p>
<p>SLU takes 120 med scholars and only 40 makes it to medical school. So about 66% drops out of the program. UMKC attrition rate is 20%
There is a big difference between 33% will make it to med school at SLU vs. 80% will get MD degree at UMKC. I think UMKC is a better choice in that respect. UMKC is much harder to get in because there is no more interview, no MCAT, no volunteering etc.</p>
<p>My daughter went to both schools to interview. UMKC admits you as a medical student, SLU does not. </p>
<p>If you are able to stick with UMKC, you will be a doc in six years. It is an advantage for being a doc sooner if that is what you want to do. In that respect it is better. Seriously, it seems like a six year boot camp for high schoolers. Many (20+%) of these high school med doc students will drop out. I also found the program is just too much $$ for out of state folks like us. </p>
<p>SLU does not give you a spot from medical school in the beginning. Therefore you are like in a “pre-med” program with a preferred status. Visiting colleges, a lot of students say they are in premed but they change their minds. This mentality is so prominent in Vanderbilt or Washu or Emory that almost everybody and their brothers said they want to do premed. After taking chemistry and organic chemistry, many just don’t have the ability to do medicine. This happens for SLU students too. From what I heard, if you follow the path in SLU, your chance of getting in their own med school is considerably high. That is what the medical scholar program said. It is not a guaranteed program. Those conditions/restrictions such as GPA 3.5 and interviews still appear “friendly” compared with regular premed path.</p>
<p>In terms of how much guaranteed it is,
UMKC > SLU Med Scholars > Regular premed</p>
<p>UMKC: 80% will get MD degree
SLU Med Scholars: 33% will start medical school</p>
<p>Hi HighHope, </p>
<p>Could you confirm if you are attending UMKC? I sense it is a satisfaction for you if you emphasize the numberic point. I am not a spokes person for either anyway. I just think I should know your objectivity. Plus, as parents we have to consider many things – school experience, $$, etc. Thanks.</p>
<p>Since the OP wanted a comparison between the two programs I am just expressing my opinions and findings. I am very sorry if it offends anyone in any way. And I totally understand that everyone needs to take their own decisions based on many many different variables.</p>
<p>Hi HighHope,</p>
<p>I think it is okay to be passionate about the school you love so much, i.e. UMKC. I don’t feel offended but it will help me to know if your opinion was formulated from your kid’s attending experence there or if yourself are doing it there, and at what grade. </p>
<p>People can make their own decisions. That is what a useful forum like this is for.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>HighHope, actually this statement is misleading as many people in the SLU Med Scholars program may not end up actually attending SLU’s medical school but another medical school. With the opportunity it gives you to essentially apply out, many students many students may take advantage of that. Also, bc SLU’s program has you do all 4 years of undergrad where you can pick ANY major, if a student decides later not to do SLU’s program, they haven’t really lost any years, and they still have a good degree from a reputable university.</p>
<p>At UMKC, there really is no application out, as UMKC does not have you take even close to all the premed prereqs in the first place and you don’t take the MCAT, thus locking you into their program as if you were to leave after Year 2, you’d have to go back and redo certain requirements: Organic Chem I and II (not the condensed one semester course UMKC med students take), Physics I and II, Biology I and II. Not to mention you are limited in your degree majors at a relatively low ranked university and if you are regional or out-of-state you are paying a ridiculous amount of money for a relatively low ranked medical school.</p>
<p>by the way if anyone actually care i chose UMKC over SLU</p>