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Let's suppose someone is a great fan of the theater (like you, right?) and, for the same price (free!), were given the choice of watching a small college play or going to a Broadway show. Which one do you think most people would choose to go to?
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<p>I totally prefer seeing theater that my friends are involved in to a Broadway play, at least during college. I have my whole life to watch Broadway plays; I'm only going to be in college with these amazingly talented people pouring their hearts into play after play for a few years. Does it mean that the plays are a little hit-and-miss? Sure. But it also sometimes means innovation, experimentation and sometimes just plain fun. And it means you can go out to the diner with the cast afterwards to get the inside scoop…how often can you do that with Broadway plays?</p>
<p>That said, not everyone feels that way. But I don't see why this has to be an argument. On this thread two alternatives have been presented: smaller schools with large, national, sports scenes (Wake Forest, Rice, etc), and small schools with active but smaller sports scenes (Dartmouth, Williams, etc). The OP can decide for themeselves which one they prefer...or if either will do, depending on other factors.</p>
<p>I would recommend Union, Hamilton, or St. Lawrence. They all fit what you're looking for: small LACs with good school spirit and support for athletics.</p>
<p>chad,
I think that there is little doubt that one can have a good experience at all of the colleges that have been mentioned. As others have suggested, one size does not fit all. But there are big differences in the athletic/social life available and I wonder about the degree to which you realize this. </p>
<p>As you evaluate the college landscape, could you give us a little insight into what you are thinking...For example, have you had a chance to visit any other colleges after Dartmouth, Williams, Amherst, Middlebury and, in particular, any colleges that might be a little larger? If so, what were your impressions? Have you had a chance to attend any athletic events at any of these or seen any on TV? In particular, have you ever been to a major, nationally relevant college sporting event on a college campus and felt the energy that the event provides for the entire campus and the alumni? Have you ever experienced football tailgating like what goes on every fall weekend at some of the major conference colleges, even at smaller or mid-size universities like Wake, Rice, Vanderbilt or basketball at one of the top schools for this, including places like Duke, Georgetown, Davidson and Villanova? Is weather a factor in your considerations? </p>
<p>You may ultimately decide that the northeastern LACs or something a little larger like Dartmouth or Brown will be best for you, but as one who posts frequently about the nature of athletic/social life at a college and how this impacts the overall undergraduate experience, I cannot state strongly enough that what these colleges offer are no where near equivalent experiences to those which I have mentioned. I hope you have the chance to closely compare these schools and I wish you well in your search.</p>
<p>I feel strongly about this topic and the differences between the experiences on offer at these colleges. I have a view and have made it clear, but I also accept that some students will prefer a different environment. </p>
<p>I also feel strongly that the more information that a student has in making their college choice, the better off he/she will be. So I'll post my points in favor of a certain college or group of colleges and expect others to do the same and, at the end of the day, the OP will decide whether to investigate these suggestions or not. </p>
<p>It's hijacking because the moment that someone mentions the word sports, you go off on how the idea of tailgating-pomp-circumstance-thousands-of-people-in-the-stands-nationally-televised-games is the only way, or at least the superior way, to enjoy attending sports. It's like you really can't wrap your head around the fact that there are other ways to enjoy sports, and people who enjoy sports those other ways really aren't missing out, just because you think they are.</p>
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Have you ever experienced football tailgating like what goes on every fall weekend at some of the major conference colleges, even at smaller or mid-size universities like Wake, Rice, Vanderbilt or basketball at one of the top schools for this, including places like Duke, Georgetown, Davidson and Villanova?
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<p>And I have to ROFL at your love of tailgating. Having attended more than my share of tailgating at a Big 10 school, one that Hawkette often feels the love for, you know what tailgating is? It's crappy snack food served out of the backs of people's cars in a crowded parking lot with the distinctly unappetizing smell of beer pervading it. That's all! What's the "appeal" of that, other than catching up with your friends, which can be just as easily done if not better done anyplace else?</p>
<p>Hampden-Sydney College is a small,very old,all men's liberal arts school in Virginia.It's a Division 3 school frequently nationally ranked in lacrosse and football.All sports are popular there.Worth a look.</p>
<p>Pizza Girl: Not all tailgates serve "crappy snack food" or have an "unappetizing smell of beer". At Rice's first home game, the tailgate had burgers,BBQ chicken, and sides (potato salad, beans, etc.)...Even the Houston Rodeo was there to provide brisket among other things. Live music was provided and even a kids section with inflatables. There was beer for those of age (or those who don't mind trying to hide it). There were tables to face paint/body paint. So just because you have seen a specific scene, does not mean it is everywhere.</p>
<p>LOL, dragon2owl ... Adding burgers, BBQ chicken and potato salad still falls under "crappy food" to me. And yes, my university also has tents and various activities for the kids (inflatables, face-painting, etc.) and it's a social scene and tradition -- not just for alumni such as myself, but lots of people who live in the surrounding area who enjoy a football game on a nice autumn day. </p>
<p>It's still just crappy food in a parking lot, though! Sure, it can be fun -- like any other get-together with friends in any context can be. Being in a crowded parking lot and eating burgers and potato salad on paper plates while standing up and shouting to be heard above the noise of the crowd isn't inherently any more "fun" than any other way of getting together with friends. </p>
<p>My objection to Hawkette is that she repeatedly elevates the Big-10/SEC-type-of-tailgate-roar-of-the-crowd as the only fun way of enjoying sports. Especially in a context where the OP didn't explicitly indicate that that was his definition of a fun sports scene. He simply said school spirit and support for athletics. Nowhere did that say huge crowds or nationally relevant / televised games.</p>
<p>pizzagirl,
We disagree and I'm okay with that, but I draw the line at your mischaracterizations of my words. </p>
<p>I readily accept that different things will appeal to different people, but the social and athletic life experiences at these colleges are not the same. And particularly for a student who has expressed a desire to watch sports, I encourage that student to investigate (first-hand if possible) and compare the different environments. I welcome these comparisons and trust the student to reach his/her own best conclusions. </p>
<p>I have a view and an appreciation for the positive (and potentially large) impact of social and athletic activities on a student's undergraduate experience. In other threads, you have stated that you don't particularly like sports and never really assigned much value to the athletic life at Northwestern (it's clear that tailgates weren't your cup of tea). That's fine for you, but your intolerance for those who like the athletic life and the social whirl that it brings to a college campus is not. I don't criticize you for your interest in theater and the arts, but I'm sure you would object if someone from W&L or Bowdoin was claiming that the theater/arts there was an equal or better experience as what you'd find at Northwestern. </p>
<p>So, make your comments, draw the contrasts, inform the reader and, if you like, make an argument for a school or type of school. And trust that the reader, if he/she does the work, will figure it out eventually.</p>
<p>My issue isn't with people who enjoy athletic life. I went to football games! I still go to football games! My issue is that I feel that you characterize the pomp-circumstance-tailgate-crowd-nationally-relevant way of enjoying athletic life to be inherently superior to and more enjoyable than other ways of enjoying sports. </p>
<p>I think I would have reacted differently if you had said, "Within the realm of small LAC's where there is a lot of school spirit at athletic events, you might consider X, Y, and Z. If you prefer the tailgate-crowd-of-thousands scene, you might consider A, B, and C." You have explicitly stated that major, nationally relevant events provide energy and spirit to the students and the alumni. But you seem not to understand that equal energy and spirit can be had at smaller colleges where it's just a thousand students in attendance. Because <em>you</em> define energy-and-spirit as requiring a cast of thousands, and feel that energy-and-spirit are lacking if there isn't such a cast of thousands. But not everyone does.</p>
<p>Every time this topic comes up, you almost seem ... afraid that someone would miss out on crowd-of-thousands-tailgating, as if it's such a unique experience that someone will suffer if they never experience it. As an analogy, I enjoyed my Greek experience very much. But I don't feel people who go to college campuses without Greek systems are "suffering" or "lacking" or "missing out" in any way. They'll find their fun in their own way.</p>
<p>hawkette - I have to say, there is something slightly condescending in your assumption that a seventeen y/o American has never been to a MLB game or watched a college football game on television and thus, has to be tutored by you on the joys of big-time sports on a thread that has nothing to do with it.</p>
<p>Also, on a different topic, hey, let Bowdoin and W&L brag all they want about their theater programs so long as it has some relevance to what the OP's stated preferences are.</p>