We live in the NYC suburbs and my son was accepted into a few SUNYs and a few OOS with merit- Umass Amherst, University of Delaware and UVM. Not close to to NYC but in the Northeast. Also, not small. UVM gave him the most merit and FA and is also the smallest at 10,000 undergrads. It ended up being about $9,000 more than the one SUNY he seriously considered and is the school he chose
^^ I’m surprised to hear UVM ended up being so affordable. Even for in-state it’s on the pricier side for a public. That’s wonderful that your son got such a great offer – congratulations! Everyone I know from UVM – present students and alums alike – love the school.
Yes! Even though it was the most expensive of the three, the merit and FA was so much more that it ended up being the cheapest. He got a $17,000 per year merit award plus need based aid. They did not meet need but they came close enough that we decided it was worth it.
Unless you can go to med school with little or no debt, I do not recommend going to med school anymore as most new drs coming out of school are saddled with lifelong debt. The high cost of school, med mal insurance, regulation, reduced income (all a result of a shift in this country toward socialized medicine) make all but a few specialty/surgical areas a far less profitable endeavor. Another factor has been a influx of drs who decided to attend substandard cheaper med schools from outside the US. We have plenty of less qualified drs coming in and less from quality US schools because of the high cost.
Physician assistant, nurse practitioner, nursing all are excellent endeavors where there is legit job growth for the foreseeable future—- all well paying with less crushing debt and commitment required than med school. This may seem harsh, but I’m of the opinion that only THE best and brightest top of the top should go to med school
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Do you work for the VA? That’s the only system of socialized medicine we have.
FWIW, this country is not even close to having socialized medicine for everyone. Here’s a primer on socialized medicine by Dr. George Lundberg, who was editor in chief of JAMA for nearly two decades. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/881433
Socialized medicine is when medical providers work for the government, in government-owned health facilities, and when healthcare is paid for by the government (like the VA). The VA healthcare system has been around in some form since the end of the Civil War, and in its modern incarnation since the end of WWII.
So, our little slice of socialized medicine has been around since before you became a doctor. I’m pretty sure that whatever restrictions you’re experiencing are restrictions imposed by private insurance companies. They’re the ones deciding how much to pay you.
I think if the OP’s child wants to become a physician, he/she should do so.
Read my post again. We have had a “shift” toward socialized medicine. I have no problem with anyone pursuing a goal of being an MD But anyone who does so must be realistic and understand that along with that MD comes crushing debt and far less financial reward than you would otherwise expect. If a student is truly prepared for that and still wants to pursue that goal then great.
I don’t need your primer on socialized medicine. I live it and work it every day and am independent politically. Put aside certain specialized areas of medicine and surgery and you would be surprised to know that many physician assistants and nurse practitioners when all is said and done are bringing home more money in their pocket then a lot of doctors particularly in the internal medicine family practitioner and pediatric areas who are saddled with large insurance costs, debt and overhead. A high achieving student who is thinking of going into medicine should also consider these other areas as well as engineering because the financial return after an undergraduate and masters degree is more immediate and comes at a younger age at less cost/debt then if you go to medical school then internship and residency and board certification.
Look into Dickinson - they offer nice merit $$ which your D should qualify for. Also worth exploring in PA, Gettysburg and the previously mentioned Muhlenberg. Look at Hobart & William Smith upstate, too. I know a number of kids who have gone on to med school from there. Possibly Providence College in RI? Again, know kids who have gotten nice merit from them and gone on to med school.
This does seem harsh. My view is that anyone who can do the work, get the grades and the MCAT scores to be accepted, is best and brightest enough to go. I hope that your comments about the direction my daughter should take are general in nature and not an assumption about her intelligence, since you don’t know much about her other then a GPA and one score.
Not everyone is looking for the highest monetary return out of their occupation. Plenty of people with the intelligence to make far money go into lesser paid jobs because they have a love or passion for them. My feeling is that if you can make a decent living doing a job that you love, that is far more valuable then making a fortune at a job you don’t.
What @njdadjets is pointing out is that after Med School, most now will come out with between 200-300,000 dollars in school loans. The insurance reimbursements to pay the healthcare providers in most fields have not increased to the extent of the cost of living. He/she is just suggesting another path to be a health care provider that seems to be very bright going forward. If one chooses a 5 year PA program that path is really difficult to beat.It is just another option for your student to consider when selecting her career path
I understand @fleishmo6 but this thread was started to ask for suggestions for colleges. I never asked whether my daughter should pursue medicine or some alternate career path. Not everyone who wants medicine is doing it for the highest reimbursement possible. I am also starting to wonder if it isn’t disrespectful to nurses and PAs to keep suggesting that pathway to people who couldn’t hack pre-med. I believe they are different paths requiring different personalities, skills and competencies. I know many doctors who would have made terrible nurses and I know many, many nurses who never wanted to be doctors. I may be off base with this, but it has been troubling me.
In our case, my guess is that if my daughter decides that medicine is not for her, she will probably gravitate towards a research position somewhere. Or potentially into something completely different.
Actually, the path to a becoming a PA is extremely competitive. By no means was I suggesting that it was easy. The prereqs are the same basically as premed. My only point was that he was just trying to show other paths/careers in the health care field. Trying to inform someone, not necessarily yourself, but others who might not know of some of the pitfalls. I am actually taking my daughter to visit schools with 5 year PA programs. It is a very tough grind to get into a PA Program. So please if what I said came off as disrespecting to that career choice then I totally apologize.To me it is a great career, one that has a bright future and a very nice quality of life.
I agree, the career response went off track.
It’s not mine. It’s the former JAMA editor’s. Second, do you work for the VA? If not, you do not participate in “socialized medicine.”
No shift whatsoever. The only part of our health care system that is “socialized” is the VA system – VA hospitals are government-owed, VA physicians and nurses are government employees, and VA healthcare is paid for by the government. What other area of U.S. health care is like that? In fact, the “shift” is AWAY from the VA-form of socialized medicine, in that the current government would like to privatize it.
So I’m not sure what you are referring to. Medicare and Medicaid? They’ve been around more than 50 years. And it’s not socialized. ACA? That’s tax-subsidies (for some people) to purchase private insurance. More people are going to the doctor with the same form of payment (private insurance) that’s been used pretty much since the 1970s. And private hospitals have improved their financial stability because of it. That’s why I am not sure what you are referring to when you say a "shift toward socialized medicine. Just not happening.
I do agree that primary care physicians are underpaid. The insurance companies should be paying them a lot more.
If you want to discourage students from going to medical school, by all means do so. But don’t tell them it’s a bad choice because of socialized medicine. That’s just not the case. It has nothing to do with politics. It’s just a fact. For better or for worse, we do not have socialized medicine, and there is no shift toward it.
Pitt and U Delaware are about 18,000 undergrads—which is big but not enormous.
@fleishmo6 You didn’t say anything disrespectful. And I agree that the PA path as well as the nursing path are both difficult and competitive. I just find that often on these boards both careers are offered up as alternatives to medicine either when college students start to falter or to people like me with kids who haven’t even started yet. My feeling is that these are really distinct careers and should not be used as substitutes for being a doctor. On the other hand, I agree that there is really nothing wrong with someone who has a desire to work in a medical field to investigate alternatives.