Small vs Large School re: party atmosphere?

Parents Forum
1

<p>I did a search for threads but didn't come up with exactly what I am asking.</p>

<p>DS (HS junior) is an introvert, very bright, but can get lost in the crowd. For a long time, DH and I have thought that he'd do best in a smaller LAC. He visited a city school and did not care for it, but he has liked F&M, Bucknell, Lafayette, etc and we thought they would be good for him in terms of good teacher/student ratio, small classes, the ability to get to know teachers, and the likelihood of making friends that you see regularly in the caf, fields, etc. </p>

<p>I don't think DS will be into the party scene. He is social and has friends, but will never be "the life of the party." Now I am wondering if these smaller LACs may have too much of a party atmosphere, and fewer kids that do alternate things on the weekends. I have heard the phrase "Work hard, party hard" several times.</p>

<p>I am also wondering if a larger campus might have more students, in absolute numbers, who don't go crazy on the weekends, than the smaller ones, even though counter-intuitively I think that PSU would definitely be more of a party school than Bucknell, say.</p>

<p>A contact at Bucknell says the whole undergrad drinking scene is so much more crazy than it was when I was a student. All the same non-city schools are having the same experience. When I was an undergrad, you could go to parties and have 1 or 2 beers if that's all you want. But now apparently kids are using hard alcohol and doing more binge drinking (I know this is old news!)</p>

<p>I am not just concerned about this from an alcohol perspective. I want S to be able to find friends who want to do something besides go to parties occasionally - movies, dinners, music, etc.</p>

<p>Any thoughts as to how to find out a school's reputation or which type of school might be a better choice?</p>

2

<p>I think your concerns are justified, and it is likely that your contact is correct. Note that at all of these schools, 15-20% of the student body will be abstainers. A high percentage of abstainers will be religious, more likely to be non-Caucasian, and more likely to be women.</p>

<p>The national data (from Monitoring the Future) tell us that 44% of college students ages 18-24 binge drank in the past two weeks. For technical reasons, I can tell you that this is likely an underestimate, probably by around 8%. It is higher for white students, males, and athletes (regardless of where they are), and higher in schools with higher proportions of wealthier students, places where there are higher percentages of Greeks, rural schools without commuters, schools without religious orientation, and schools with an emphasis on spectator sports. In schools with many of these characteristics, the number of moderate drinkers is actually pretty low. And even if a student doesn’t drink or drinks only moderately, in a smallish LAC, the culture is harder to escape. Most students who don’t engage can figure out how to make do, but why should they?</p>

<p>Does it have to be this area of the U.S.? I can think of LACs with lower percentages of this because of difference in their general campus culture. Earlham immediately comes to mind. Or LACs that are not quite urban such as Macalester or Pitzer. There will be plenty of drinking, but not nearly at the same levels. There are also schools that have made a big effort to tamp down campus drinking - Hobart & William Smith comes to mind. </p>

<p>You can usually find out a lot by reading back issues of the student paper, which are often to be found on-line. You can also find out a lot about a school’s culture with a Thursday overnight. </p>

<p>Good luck to you. It is an interesting conundrum.</p>

3

<p>You might want to look for schools that don’t have frats or aren’t really too excited about sports - they tend to be less of a party atmosphere. Bucknell and Lafayette would not fit into that category. Also look into substance-free dorms - most colleges have them now.</p>

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<p>Not sure about lumping Bucknll and Lafayette together on this. While Lafayette had 14 fraternities when I attended in the early '80s, with a student body of 2000, it now has only four, with a student body of 2400. ‘Back in the day’ they were very lax about drinking (underage and in general). Not so anymore. Several fraternities have been kicked out in recent years for what we would have considered minor infractions.</p>

<p>Don’t know as much about Bucknell, but it currently has 14 fraternities with a student body of 3500 undergrads.</p>

<p>You may want to post on the individual schools’ forums. Current students generally post there and seem to give candid responses. [Lafayette</a> College - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/lafayette-college/]Lafayette”>Lafayette College - College Confidential Forums)</p>

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<p>Sounds like Spelman would be almost perfect perfect.</p>

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<p>I actually didn’t know the frat situation at Lafayette - I just assumed it was more of a party school like I heard Lehigh was. They’re both pretty big into their sports, although they’re both really nice schools.</p>

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<p>“A high percentage of abstainers will be religious, more likely to be non-Caucasian, and more likely to be women.”</p>

<p>Are you citing a study of some sort? This hasn’t been S’s experience of sub-free at his small town LAC (Grinnell). Certainly the students in his sub-free housing aren’t noticably more religious and seem to have pretty much the same racial mix as the rest of the campus. Not sure about the gender ratio. Was his situation was unusual? I haven’t seen sub-free at other LACs, but I’d be curious as to where your data comes from.</p>

8

<p>@M’s Mom</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure that chem-free housing is going to be a mix of students. But if we’re talking voluntary, chem-free students who don’t have access to or live in chem-free dorms, megan12’s demographic might be close to accurate.</p>

9

<p>I have a neighbor kid who recently graduated from Lafayette (and is living at home now). I definitely have the sense from her that it was a “work hard, play hard” kind of place. She was (is) and athlete, and her sorority was central to her experience there. Maybe she and her friends were atypical . . . but they are not the sort of girls who like being atypical. </p>

<p>By the way, they are intelligent, caring, lovely people. You would be thrilled if your son brought any of them home to meet you. But I think they drank a lot in college.</p>

<p>It’s possible to overthink this question a lot. If I had a dollar for every heavy-drinking college kid whose parents were sure he or she wouldn’t drink heavily in college, it would be like winning Powerball. I think it’s easier to find non-drinking activities at Penn State (or any large university), but I also think that a kid is less likely to get into serious trouble drinking at Lafayette or Bucknell.</p>

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<p>My main concern has become drinking and driving, not whether they will drink or not (he probably will and even binge some). The part that scares me the most is the drinking and driving…do they have to drive to the parties and bars? Or is it all within walking distance of campus? You read about some schools where they commonly do road trips to the college town 30/40/50 miles down the road. That is scary.</p>

11

<p>“Are you citing a study of some sort?”</p>

<p>Wechsler, H., et al. Harvard School of Public Health.</p>

<p>“This hasn’t been S’s experience of sub-free at his small town LAC (Grinnell).”</p>

<p>Most abstainers (and I know nothing about Grinnell) are not in sub-free housing.</p>

12

<p>Interesting comments from all. JHS, I am not trying to be naive about drinking. Actually, it’s not to so much drinking as whether the whole loud raucous party-all-the-time crowd dominates social life. And how hard it is to connect with those who are not life of the party types.</p>

<p>Haystack, I am not as concerned about drinking and driving being a problem,. On these smaller campuses, there is no need to drive to parties, most everywhere is walkable. I guess I might be more concerned at a larger school of course.</p>

13

<p>Couple of thoughts:</p>

<p>The vast majority of colleges and universities in the United States are party schools, if that is what a kid is looking for.</p>

<p>All colleges and universities in the United States have many students who are not partiers, and many students who don’t drink at all.</p>

<p>If a kid wants to find a party every night of the week, it is quite possible to do so while attending nearly any college.</p>

<p>If a kid wants to find a group of friends who aren’t interested in that particular lifestyle, it is possible to do so while attending ANY college.</p>

<p>Small colleges in rural areas sometimes have a lot of drinking because there isn’t much else to do (in the eyes of the students), and cars become a bigger necessity because there isn’t much within walking distance.</p>

<p>Large universities in urban areas can offer more opportunities… More opportunities to drink, and more opportunities to not drink, simply because there are more people, more clubs, more organizations to get involved with, more easily accessable places to go and things to do off campus.</p>

<p>Generally, we have found the following to be true: If you think your kid is perfect, you just haven’t caught him yet.</p>

14

<p>everybody can find thier own crowd, party or not. everybody can also find party at any place, big or small. everybody can entertained themselves differently at these parties, some will load on alcohol, others will engage in conversations and make more friends. there are choices everywhere, at every single place. it is up to a person to choose.<br>
I disagree that there are more opportunites in urban area, plenty of all kind of opportunities everywhere, in the middle of the city as well as in a middle of nowhere, at the place of 3,500 and at the place of 50,000. Look inside, rely on what your kid will choose to do, who he decided to have around him. Do not look outside, as very bad and extremely good choices will be presented at every single place.</p>

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<p>Miami, Mini’s point was not that a kid can’t find their own way to enjoy themselves anywhere… he is pointing out the statistical findings on drinking and its use and abuse. A parent can’t possibly predict what their own child is going to do over the space of four years- but finding a campus which has significantly less binge drinking behavior as the “normative” activity seems to me to be a good start.</p>

16

<p>“Actually, it’s not to so much drinking as whether the whole loud raucous party-all-the-time crowd dominates social life. And how hard it is to connect with those who are not life of the party types.”</p>

<p>Of course they will dominate the social life especially at a small school, they are the loud and raucous ones. If you don’t want that, go to a larger school in an urban area.</p>

17

<p>I agree with the above posters that there are serious students and there are party animals at almost any school. And I believe that if a relatively mature student goes off to college with the idea of partying, he or she will party, no matter the school. Likewise, if a relatively mature student goes off to college with the idea of being a serious student, he or she will be a serious student, no matter the college.</p>

<p>However … I think that a lot of 18-year-olds are hardly “relatively mature” and are thus very open to being influenced by the culture of a school. A school where party-every-night is the norm will turn these kids into partiers … and a school where it’s work hard all week and party on the weekends will lead them toward becoming serious students. So yes … the overall culture of a school does matter, and schools do differ in their cultures, a lot.</p>

<p>EDIT: In retrospect: “relatively mature” is the wrong term. Substitute “with relatively strong values.”</p>

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<p>blossom,
I disagree with using statistics in this subject, but we have a difference in opinion here, that is all. "but finding a campus which has significantly less binge drinking behavior as the “normative” activity seems to me to be a good start. " - is a good start in your opinion, while evaluating your own kid and talking to him constantly is my approach. we have not choose our kids’d colleges based on number of parties over period of time or per certain number of students. Our approach has worked for us (which was supported by my oldest feedback). It does not make decesion based on this criteria invalid, though. There is no right or wrong, so I am not sure about the purpose of your comment .
Difference in opinion is what OP is looking for, as far as I understand. So, I have answered to OP, I myself is not looking for any answers, I am done with colleges, next will be my grandkids, but they have parents to worry about it.</p>

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<p>The data are useful starting points for looking at campus cultures. They aren’t a be-all and end-all. But there are campuses that look very similar demographically which have very different campus cultures, and what look like relatively small differences in the data end up looking very large once one steps on campus.</p>

<p>It is NOT a matter of looking at one’s own kid, or whether or not s/he will party. Whether or not a student is an abstainer or a heavy drinker, s/he is majorly affected by the culture found on the campus.</p>

20

<p>First, no one will have a gun to his head forcing him to drink at parties at college. Many kids still attend the parties for the music, socializing, etc. and don’t drink or drink very little. My son actually earned his spending money being the designated driver for friends. He had fun at the parties but didn’t feel the need to drink. He was at a small LAC and had plenty of friends and sometimes they went to parties and sometimes he did not. He is VERY introverted too and technically his campus was a dry campus. I really don’t think it matters where you go to school, there will be parties everywhere. I think that you do need to talk to your kids about the party scene and responsible drinking. We told our son that we realized that he was in college and that drinking is part of the college culture and certainly did not have any grand ideas that he would go through college without drinking. What we DID expect from him was to not be stupid about it too. He could have a drink or two and still enjoy himself but not get falling down drunk. Nothing wrong with that.</p>