Is there any way to find out how many students each year do NOT get the required MCAT score to continue in the DO program?
Only Step 1 is P/F. Step 2CK and Step 3 still get numerical scores. Step 2CK scores are used by residency program directors when deciding who to interview.
COMLEX exams which DO students take instead of the USMLE Step exams are all scored. No P/F for DOs.
Both Comlex and USMLEs are one and done. If you achieve a passing score, you donāt get to retake to improve your test score. Failing a STEP or COMLEX is a BIG deal and will seriously hurt oneās chances of matching.
Med school exams are scored. So are MBE exams that med students take as part of their evaluation during clinical rotations. At most schools, fail the MBE means you fail the rotation.
Alll inservice training exams are scored during residency and can be used to determine if a resident is allowed to advance to the net year.
Specialty board exams are scored, both the written and oral exams
Is there any data on Nova students who apply to med school and are not BS/DO?
Would you mind sharing the statistics?
I do not think soā¦They will not release that info.
Basically at presentation for parents during Shark Preview presenters were asked how many students who where accepted to BS/DO get to their DO. Answer was around 50%ā¦ People asked why so few given that it is very selective program and they take only top students who already do volunteering, shadowing etc.? Answer was very strange. "Well, some students change their mind, some aplly out, some canāt pass 502 MCAT. " Follow up question was why students do not pass MCAT. Answer was, āwell we canāt make students to studyā¦ we also canāt compete with beachā¦ā Then a guy said, we have one girl acceped to Hopkins Medical school. We also have a girl with 3.9 GPA who didnāt get 502 MCATā¦ This presentation made me wonder. Why would you be proud that students leave your program? He said that he does not care. Well, he doesnāt since there is huge line for medical schools and they can fill DO program in no time. All of the above plus black lists online made me concerned.
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That is a very good question. I have not seen it. Maybe I can ask for such Stat since it should be available.
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I think he was sharing this information to demonstrate that individual results vary. He did not say that 50% of students canāt get 502 on MCAT. He said that 50% leave the program due to various reasons and provided two opposite examples. They seem to be open and honest. I am not shocked by 50% attrition rate.
We were on a presentation at a college, and somebody asked what is the acceptance rate to medical schools for your graduates? The dean said: ā100%. We know who is competitive enough to gain acceptance and only write supportive letter from advisory committee for those studentsāā¦ We never considered that college againā¦
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I see your point. However, I do not believe that 50% attrition for BS/MD or BS/DO is a good sign. These programs are very competitive and difficult to get to. Normally students do not want to leave them and work very hard to stay and protect their seat at medical school. Remember, you are not talking about general pool of students who all want to be a doctors as freshman. Students who are invited to BS/MD and BS/DO usually already took advanced classes, have good grades, volunteered at hospitals etc.
You have a valid point, butā¦ general pool has 70% attrition rate and those applying have only 40% chance to get to at least one medical school. So the odds in bsdo program are still much higher.
(that being said you may be very right regarding low level of preparation at NSU)
Itās probably a dumb question, but what are āblack lists onlineā?
I would like to summarize so that I know I am understanding correctly.
Your D was accepted to the BS/DO program at Nova, and is very excited. She has not yet visited the school, so it is unclear whether she likes it. Transferring out is not an option because she would lose scholarship money (and the DO). She is able to apply out for medical school if she wants.
Your initial concern was the DO portion, but that seems to be ok now and you are no longer concerned.
Your concern now is with the BS portion. It seems that students do not always meet the MCAT score of 502, and right now you have no data on medical school acceptances for non DO students. You are concerned that the BS portion of Nova is āweak,ā because some students do not meet the required MCAT score.
Is this all correct? I have a few thoughts:
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How do students from other colleges do on the MCATs? I am sure some do well, while others do not. Is your observation about Nova similar to what happens at other schools? Does every student with premed intentions at Muhlenberg (for example) get a med school worthy MCAT score? My guess is no. What about other BS/DO programs? How do those students do?
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Keep in mind that many premed kids might be smart, might have done well in HS etc, but still do not get accepted to medical school due to grades, MCAT scores, etc. Maybe that is what you are seeing at Nova. Maybe these kids would have gotten lower MCAT scores even if they attended a different college, despite being very strong HS students. This is similar to #1.
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Attending a smaller school does not necessarily translate to an āeasierā time getting into MD/DO school. Much (a lot) of this depends on the student, their study habits, willingness to attend office hours, staying on a rigid study schedule, curbing social events when necessary, etc.
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Maryland is an outstanding school for premed students. Keep in mind that if your daughter does not choose Nova DO, she will likely be applying to medical school with UMD students. She will still need to work very hard to be a competitive applicant. She will not be applying in a bubble- she will be applying with kids from all schools.
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Gap years are common and are often used to strengthen your application (this is true for many degrees).
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Keep in mind (you already know this) that your daughter needs to pick a school that she likes, and she needs to work hard. There are plenty of students at Nova who DO get the required MCAT score. Do you have any reason to believe that your daughter will not be one of them?
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I think due to the very long thread, everyone is lost in translation.
Yes, she can apply out of NOVA with a high MCAT and good extracurriculars, but that would be very difficult, and I would not count on it in the current application madness to medical schools environment. I am not sure how their premed advising work for BS/DO kids who apply out. To apply out you need to have a high MCAT, do it without GAP year and stay in 4+4 programs (so you have a BS degree.) Otherwise, you are losing a spot in BS/DO.
From my limited knowledge to successfully apply to medical schools without a GAP year you either have to be a paramedic or EMT (i.e. lengthy work in a medical environment).
- DD visited NOVA for 3 days during Shark Previewā¦ We liked the campus. NOVA kept āsharkā kids so busy (and exhausted) with activities and interviews they had no chance to spend time with local kids (except walking around or in the elevator.) There were some red flags with disorganization at Shark week and during the selection process initially (I do not want to write way too big a postā¦ I am not the only one who noticed it. Niche also has for NOVA Disorganization at the top. So it looks that this disorganization is everywhere.)
- I agree; then we are talking about the lower-level kids. During Shark Week, I and DD saw all smart and very driven high achieversā¦ The selection process was not a joke.
- Totally agree.
- Why do we have UMD again? She may consider applying to UMD medical school, but actually, she will be a bit of local diversity not applying from UMD but outside while MD resident.
Any medical school has outstanding students applying. All medical students are overachievers. - DD would love to work abroad for GAP year (actually dreaming about it) in some medical format. However, this is not what medical schools want (from what we learned.)
- I am not sure about that plenty. I canāt quantify this. I do know that some students transfer out of BS/DO (according to online posts) to other universities and then continue with medical schools. I also know that even Nova DO match is fine now, it was a problem couple of years ago (school is not new.) Also, many medical forums have Nova DO on their avoid =AKA āblackā list. This can be due to exam pass rates and matching issues in the past.
I do see some very good results with Nova DO too. It is just this DO program looks like has much more complaints than other DO programs.
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Check to see if the Peace Corps is up and running. This is an excellent option for a two year gap period!
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She wanted to work in Israel. They have some fantastic EMT programs and have many injuries and trauma. We were told firm NO by premed advisors. View is experience should be from the US. Other countries have different medical approaches. Foreign experience does not help students, it becomes an obstacleā¦
The only thing I know about DO programs is what my daughters Ex boyfriend went through. He graduated from one of the non flagship colleges in our state to save money. He then took an entire year to study for the MCAT (took twice and did score above Novas 502, I want to say in the low 5teens.), as well as getting a job in a doctors practice to gain experience. He then applied to quite a few MD and DO programs. He ended up getting accepted to two (PCOM and VCOM), and Nova was one of the places he applied to as well. Not sure if he got an interview or not. He is current at VCOM . Med school, wither traditional or DO is no joke.
My point from the only perspective I have is that he got his undergrad degree from one place (which was a regional university) and then did the work to get into Medical school. In regards to your D, if she is 1000% sure that this si the route she wants to go, then having the BS/DO at Nova will be a guarantee, and will also shorten the cycle for her in regards to becoming a Doctor. My question does relate to the cost for the BS, and how your finances play into this.
My D also has a friend (brilliant kid) who went undergrad UPenn and got multiple med school offers and is attending the top school in our state, and is now on his first rotation. $ not issue with family. But different kid.
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I was not implying that she should apply to Maryland. I wanted to bring up a point- that if she does not attend Nova then she will be applying to medical school with students from all over. She will not be applying in a bubble.
I did not realize she visited Nova. Thank you for clarifying.
Thanks for sharing! Very valuable.
He is the catch. If BS NOVA does not prepare enough for MCAT, DD will lose BS/DO spot. She has to take MCAT while she is in NOVA before graduating. If DD will have to spend one year studying for MCAT after graduation, she can do it after any school.
Currently NOVA and Rhodes are cheapest schools for DD to attend. However the difference between ācheapestā and āmost expensiveā is not that big - $7k. Yes, 7*4= $28K are still a lot of money, but we want DD to be happy in BS so fit is important. It will be her final decision where to go, not mine or my DHās. She will have to take MCAT and apply for med school, not me.
DD is extremely mature (way above her age) but still 17ā¦ I would say her maturity is at 21. (I have 21 years old less mature than my 17 years oldā¦)
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How did the three day visit happen? Do you apply? Do they invite you? Did they pay?
Sounds amazing - like THEY are commtted.
Iām not a med school guy - but say you go to Rhodes, get a 505 or 510 and apply to med school. Thereās a chance you can get blanked - right?
So not sure how someone could pass up Nova - even forgetting the $$ - which just so happen to work in Novaās favor.
Look how strenuous apps are for undergrad. If you could avoid that for med school, thatās a home run.
On the flipside, I guess if itās a star and can get into - say NYU medical - which I think is tuition free - thatās the flipside of the guarantee - but the odds would be unlikely i suppose of that happening.
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what schools is she still waiting to hear from?