Smart but unmotivated HS junior

[Twoin18]

@itllallworkout

So the UK huh? That might be a tough sell for him - he likes his life, why go looking for an adventure? Who knows though. We’d love to go visit him if he did. I’m hopeful, as others are saying, that it’ll all kick in come fall when everyone else is going through it.

For anyone thinking the UK might be an option, this thread:

Help find math heavy colleges for math head (jr)?

Demographics Dual citizen, Germany & USA, male State/Location of residency: (state is important if you apply to any state universities) CA Type of high school (current college for transfers): Tiny, tiny college prep, currently a junior Gender/Race/Ethnicity (optional): caucasian Other special factors (first generation to college, legacy, athlete, etc.): see above - dual citizen, grew up in Europe, fluent in German & English (in case that matters to anybody) Intended Major(s) Pure math GPA, Rank, and Test Scores Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0 Weighted HS GPA (incl. weighting system): 4.7 out of 4.7 College GPA (for transfers): Class Rank: hs doesn’t rank, guess would be either 1 or 2 ACT/SAT Scores: SAT 1540, 1 attempt might make NSMF, but seeing as its CA probably not Coursework (AP/IB/Dual Enrollment classes, AP/IB scores for high school; also include level of math and foreign language reached and any unusual academic electives; for transfers, describe your college courses …

And its denouement:

Math head update

Hi there A few months ago I had a thread here Help find math heavy colleges for math head (jr)? and got amazing advice for my math-y son. In fact, the posters on cc were instrumental for us putting together his college application list and especially him finding his number one dream school: Oxford. I can’t post in the old threat anymore, but I wanted to thank and update everybody who was so immensely helpful to him: because of you he self studied three AP’s, got the requisite 5s, took the MAT and today he heard that he was shortlisted for an interview at Oxford. So, @Twoin18 , @BeekMom , @ucbalumnus , @HazeGrey, @Tigerle, @merc81, @AustenNut and anybody I might have forgotten - thank you SO MUCH! You actually changed the course of my kiddo’s application process and probably his life: he got an acceptance from University of St. Andrews and is seriously considering it if Oxford doesn’t pan out - a school he only researched because UCAS allowed him to apply to five schools at the sam…

are worth a read.

But as someone who grew up in the UK and was smart but relatively lazy (I switched my major from natural sciences to math because it was “easy” and involved much less work without any labs), what the UK values is focus and exam performance over busy work. Sure you can get a bunch of Bs in class grades, but you’d better be able to study at the end of the year and get a 5 in your APs.

What stood out in the threads above was a kid who loved their subject enough to go and self-study for APs that weren’t even offered at their high school and still get 5s.

A kid without direction in freshman year of high school (and who gets Bs as a result) can do OK in the UK, but only if they have acquired the focus and motivation by the time they go to college to do one subject and nothing else for 3 years. It’s a system that is way more favorable to late developing boys than US college admissions.

Final exams are a whole different level in the UK and your entire grade depends on them: I spent 6 weeks revising 8 hours every day to prepare for them. That’s the sort of focus required to succeed there (both in college and for the exams at ages 16 and 18 in high school).

In addition, despite the great ACT score, his AP scores so far aren’t amazing, so Oxbridge seems unlikely. And given the choice, I’d pick a mid tier state flagship in the US over similar UK schools (Manchester, Exeter etc).

When S23 was in middle school I seriously thought we might end up with him going to the UK: the neuropsychologist who assessed him for ADHD said he was the smartest kid she’d seen in 20 years (well into top 0.1%), but he very much favors math over writing. However he stayed unmotivated throughout high school and there’s no way I would send him now. Although he’d be happy doing nothing other than astrophysics in college, he doesn’t yet have the motivation and focus to sit and study for final exams. Our neighbor’s ADHD kid went to St Andrews and it’s gone pretty poorly, struggling with motivation and exams and now having to take an extra (5th) year. It would have been much better to attend a lower ranking US college without high stakes exams where you can to some extent choose your own pace.