Smart slacker kid not accepted thread

Parents Forum
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<p>I am SO happy for the accepts on the parents2010 thread. I feel a boost for every single "I am so happy." </p>

<p>Same for the 3.3-3.6 and the 3.0-3.3 threads. </p>

<p>So I don't want to post disappointment there. It brings everyone down. So this is my "disappointed" thread. My, even if it was (sort of) expected, it still hurts thread. </p>

<p>Misery loves company thread.</p>

<p>So did your DS/DD miss the big envelope somewhere they really wanted and seemed to fit? Did your alma mater blast them out of the water?</p>

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<p>I lurk mostly on all of the above threads because at one time my DS was barely up to the 3.0 thread. He had issues fresh/soph year. We moved him to an alternative HS where he has thrived. He marches to a different drummer and is VERY stubborn. Very smart, but very not going to jump through hoops if they don't interest him kid. NOT in trouble, just not reaching his potential</p>

<p>I don't think his essays were great; he wouldn't accept our help on them. He applied late or at the last minute to almost every place he applied.</p>

<p>Although he has fantastic SAT and a 36 ACT, we knew from experience with 2 year older DD that nothing is a certainty for admissions except that it is a crapshoot. </p>

<p>We aren't certain what his LOR's look like... what can a teacher say .. "smart kid, still turns homework in late or not at all" ? His grades dramatically improved in jr sr year. </p>

<p>His dream schools were Harvey Mudd, MIT (since 3 years ago when DD toured), and Caltech. And we really thought he might thrive there if he got off to a good start. (all NO) </p>

<p>We thought his match schools were the mid UC's but today he was rejected from UCI (after rejects from UCLA, UCSD before).</p>

<p>He has one (thank goodness) acceptance so he is going to school, but it is the absolute bottom of his choices. He still has 5 schools to hear from, but they are all reachier than UCI.</p>

<p>So I KNOW the words of wisdom "He'll be fine" "He can thrive at brand X school" "Maybe it is better with his study habits that he go somewhere less driven." And yes, maybe he can have a steller year and transfer.</p>

<p>Anyone else want to hold hands until there is success? (and there WILL be, it will just take time!) Maybe all grad school apps will return a YES.</p>

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<p>Well I was a bit of a slacker in HS. Not too extreme but SATs were MUCH higher than GPA. I went to a mid-range college, transferred to another so so school and then started working efficiently. I got into a great grad school and I’ve had a very successful career. So some of us are late bloomers, nothing wrong with that. Better than doing a James Dean with my life.</p>

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<p>Oh I’m so sorry OP. I think colleges admissions counselors get nervous when they see those sky high standardized tests than a less than stellar early high school years. Not sure what kind of alternative high school he went to but that probably sealed the deal so to speak. Perhaps this will be a wake-up call to your son that he can’t slide on intelligence alone, perhaps he’ll transfer into one of his dream colleges. Time will tell. He’s certainly going to college and just about every college and at a bare minimum he’ll get is core classes done and perhaps options will open in a year or two. I’m sure it’s tough to watch it all unfold.</p>

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<p>I am hoping, hoping, hoping that one of his less reachy schools is Pitzer so he can take Harvey Mudd classes, do well, and transfer over if it remains his dream school. Pitzer seems like a school that would take a more wholistic approach to admissions and appreciate a kid who had an upward trajectory in a non-traditional setting.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry but not surprised to hear this. As I’ve posted several times, colleges are leery of bright slackers. They feel that that they do not have the discipline to perform at the college level, which is much higher than that of high school. His dream schools are all very tough, not just to get into, but to get through. They’re not for dilettantes.</p>

<p>What can he do? Perhaps he is learning the hard way that if you want something badly enough, you may have to jump through hoops! He does have one acceptance, and perhaps he will receive more. Can he work hard and try to transfer?</p>

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<p>I have two male relatives like your son, stubborn and secretive, top test scores and low GPAs. It’s a tough combination to deal with - you can’t really make an impact from outside. The person has to come to terms with his shortcomings, and the younger the age, the better the outcome. I do think a big piece of the puzzle is a lack of perception of how the outside world sees them. They have a strong streak of contrariness and minimal effort, and don’t realize how that affects relationships negatively. </p>

<p>This is going to be a big kick in the pants for your son, but is also a teachable moment. I’d suggest looking at smaller, liberal arts colleges that are still accepting students. They are more supportive, accommodating about a student who is lacking maturity, and are typically looking for boys. Have him do a search on collegeboard.com for late application dates, and on or about May 1, the NECAC will publish a list of schools that still have openings. He could also contact local schools directly and talk to the head of admissions. A 36 ACT is quite a prize, so he does have something to “sell.” I hope this is a step he is willing to take; if he buries his head in the sand and goes to his least-favorite school, it’s going to be another kick in the pants.</p>

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<p>I read this with empathy because I see myself here in a few years with my bright but so stubborn '13er. I am hopeful she will find her groove and it will work out as well but I know the road to get there won’t seem as “easy” as it has with my '10er. </p>

<p>I can relate though because my '13er is just like I was - high test scores, no care for rules, school or putting in the effort. I went to a lower tier college and didn’t do poorly but wasn’t going to wow anyone either. My road turned a bit differently there since I ended up expecting my '10er in my sophomore year of college so I took a year off, transferred to a local college back home and then it clicked and I graduated with a 4.0. That certainly isn’t the route I’m recommending :slight_smile: but I do think eventually all of us that buck the norm along the way finally click and better match the potential always there.</p>

<p>I’m so sorry for the NOs he’s heard but I’m hopeful he’ll have a choice, if not now, then later!</p>

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<p>esobay- Without going into identifying detail will you post what else besides stellar SAT and ACT, made him a good candidate for HM, MIT, Caltech?</p>

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<p>Oh, I feel for you! One of my kids is very, very bright-- but never had the follow-through to do the work. Went to a top private day school on full scholarship-- and I was in there all the time, responding to teachers about all the “dog ate my homework” excuses. Kiddo bombed first three semesters of high school (didn’t even have a 2.0) but recovered nicely after that at the same high school. I guess the turn-around was too late for most colleges because admission results weren’t good. Kiddo went off to a state flagship (UAZ – a school that may be a good fit for your son) where, for the first time, actually did the work and after one year there and a gap year, is at a top-25 school that fits perfectly. All that to say… there is hope.</p>

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<p>See, I have a very different perspective. As the sister to two very bright brothers, and the mother of a very smart son, I think that the whole process of education in high school for the past 4 decades has made America…and in particular, boys, simply dumber and less creative and less and less able, or even interested in participating, in education. Boys do not, in general learn as well from rote memorization, the way that girls do. They are also less interested in doing ridiculous things, like, outlining chapters and taking “notes”. And as our schools have gotten bigger and bigger, there is more and more of this really crummy teaching and “assessment” going on in our schools. The schools have been more about compliance and have become places of misery for boys. As the schools have gotten bigger and bigger, fewer boys have sports to participate in because 1.) the schools are so big that you nearly have to be a professional to play, and 2.) Title IX has made it so that they have to “even up” the numbers of girls who are playing with the boys…even though many of the girls would rather do things other than sports to begin with. So now we are bemoaning that our boys are not achieving. Why is that? Because our schools are designed for girls. </p>

<p>This year, my son is a junior. He is very smart, and does OK. Up until this year, he was in the top 10%. This year, he got a couple of C’s in classes where there was a heavy amount of “outlining of chapters” and other ridiculous stuff like “notes checks”. He got a C in Spanish, although he scored the highest grade in the school on the national language assessment…because the class was heavily weighted toward the “participation” grade, but the teacher always seemed to want to call on her “faves”. It felt “political” to my immature son, so he stopped “participating”, even though he made A’s on all his tests and aced the year end verbal assessment. He deemed it all “bogus”. I think he was right. What exactly does that stuff mean about learning? Nothing. But it is the kind of thing a girl will do and a boy will blow off. My son is grade accelerated and he loves sports. He was very fortunate this year to have been recruited by the school’s volleyball coach…which is not a “school” sport, but is rather, a “club” support, because if it were a school sport, we would have “too many” male athletes…as if THAT makes any sense. This volleyball coach puts a lot of emphasis on grades and work ethic. Many boys LEARN the whole concept of work ethic in sports. Taking their sports away from (many) boys is like taking their air away from them.</p>

<p>So we have a generation of boys who have turned to their video games because we have let them down. They are passionless and disinterested because we made them that way.</p>

<p>Esobay, my heart goes out to you. Continue to love and nurture your son and encourage him to try things and do things and find his passion. Volleyball has helped turn my slacker around…he stayed up most of the night Thursday doing his homework after a game so that he could keep his grades up so he could play on Saturday with this team that he loves. </p>

<p>In the meantime, high school is just the beginning. Every day, people head to college, sometimes struggle as freshmen and sophomores until the light kicks on…sometimes because of a job…sometimes from a hard knock that makes you think and walk a different path…whatever. Everyone matures in their own way and in their own time. And you can always improve your grades and work your way up the education ladder, just as you can work your way up a career ladder. Some of the kids who achieved great things in high school and who go on to “prestigious” colleges get caught in their problems later…drugs, partying, whatever.</p>

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<p>debrockman- Many of the issues you describe can be completely changed with the proper school placement. This is why I am a believer in private school as opposed to public. I realize that there are some excellent public schools, but the funding and class size create obstacles. My son ultimately landed in a challenging prep school and was engaged and creative. He never played video games.<br>
Also, you continue to make excuses for your son, while acknowledging that he is immature. Unfortunately, part of life (as my kid needed to learn, too) is following instructions and doing things even if they seem “stupid” and “worthless” to you. Welcome to the real world. Your posts seem to blame the schools, the teachers, society… Yes, boys are different from girls, but there is still a need for individual accountability. I know from other posts of yours that you think your son belongs in an elite college. I assure you that at the college level all these excuses aren’t going to work.</p>

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<p>Mom, you may not have seen the latest studies that show girls are dramatically outperforming boys across the country, yet, study after study shows that boys hold the outlier positions for IQ. They are smarter, and they are not engaged. If that is OK with you, great. If you think that every family should spend 12,000 a year for a private education, wonderful. My son is a 3.7 gpa kid who is grade accelerated and takes a ridiculously difficult load, including math classes that private schools don’t even offer. And his test scores show that he has good (no, great) comprehension and retention. I’m glad that your son is doing well. Glad he likes to outline chapters and do nice notetaking. None of that will make him more successful. It will make him a very nice cubicle holder.</p>

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<p>My point is that with good teachers, there is not outlining of chapters and grading of notes (at least not after the 5th grade or so). That’s fine if you chose public school, but then don’t ***** about it! Your son may be grade accelerated, but it doesn’t seem to be serving him too well. My son is a college senior at one of the elite colleges you covet, and his path to get there was not a smooth one, but I didn’t blame everyone else.</p>

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<p>

This seems a bit uncalled for. And by “a bit,” I mean “totally.”</p>

<p>I wouldn’t call my kid a “slacker” exactly, because motivation per se was never the issue, but certainly a college looking at his stats without knowing him might be excused for assuming he is one (SAT’s & SAT II’s all in the 700s, GPA finally pulled up to 3.4 this year, but hanging around 3.1-3.2 most of his HS career). </p>

<p>And sure enough he just got waitlisted at Brandeis, a school that he really liked. When he first found out, he was nonchalant, but he let slip a few things afterward that made it clear that it stung. Fortunately he has acceptances in hand at Rochester, Goucher and UMass, so it’s not that big a deal–he’ll be going somewhere good. But Brandeis was the first school out of his top 3 choices that he’s heard from, so it was a bit of a slap.</p>

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<p>I’m a girl (well a middle-aged woman) who, in HS, refused to outline chapters and other silly busy work. Needless to say, my grades were less than stellar. Went to a mediocre college where busy work was at a minimum . . . did well. Transferred to better school. Did even better. Went to a top-10 law school.</p>

<p>All is not lost for OP’s son, or other underperforming sons (or daughters).</p>

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<p>All a part of growing up, OP. He’ll either figure it out or he won’t and there’s not that much you can do about it now. Life is about choices, taking responsibility for those choices, and living with the consequences of those choices. Or, I guess, you can blame: girls, the schools, Title IX, the wind, the phase of the moon, …blame whatever/whoever you want. Make any excuse that helps you feel better. The simple fact is it won’t get any better until he wants it to.</p>

<p>Curmudgeon’s Parenting Rule #5- Kids are good at what they value. No value to homework? Probably not going to turn quality homework in on time. </p>

<p>I wasn’t much different at his age. A summer pouring concrete for a highway crew in Miami at age 17 helped me understand that I needed a profession that did not require that much sweating. I was a bit more motivated and followed a few more rules when I got back to school. Did it change my disdain for busy work and stupid rules? Heck no. But it changed my actions enough to get to a good professional school. I saw value where I hadn’t seen it before. </p>

<p>Good luck to your boy.</p>

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<p>debrockman, I hope you don’t really feel that way, or if you do, I hope you don’t share that with your kid. You are just setting him up for failure.</p>

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<p>Why do you think that I “covet” those schools? Frankly, I don’t see much good coming out of them. And nightchef, I think that those “stings” are the things that help a kid get their moorings. </p>

<p>Mom, a private school would not have been right for my son. In a high school of 3000 kids, there are 5 in his math class…third year calculus for juniors. He was 9th in the state on the state math exam. There is no better school in our state for a kid who is “out there” in math aptitude. There were no private school kids in our state even represented in the top 10 because they don’t have the same “outlier” curriculum available. He has aspects of his record that would not make him a shoe-in for those “coveted” schools, but he would be a contender. He’s probably in the top 1000 math students in the country. Our high school is a blue ribbon school. The kids knock AP exams off the charts. Unfortunately, he comes from a family where he will get no assistance to elite schools, and his father practices medicine in an area where quite frankly, he delivers a lot of free care. We can’t afford an “elite” school for high school or undergrad. I think I have made that clear all along. And I think that the “elites” have set themselves up for being eliminated off the lists of lots of outstanding kids too rich for aid, too poor for the tuition. In my husband’s hospital, none of the doctor’s kids are going to a top tier school. They are going full-ride to State U and saving their money for grad school. So my son, like many other high middle income brainy kids will go to a top 100 school on scholarship. Excuses? Really? </p>

<p>Frankly, I think someone who says that the answer is a private school is (more than a little) elitist.</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone. I hadn’t intended the thread to be about me and mine, but was hoping to hear that I am not the only parent struggling with disappointing news. I was WELL award of andison saga and I … well I had hope but not expectations. </p>

<p>Guess I wanted to whine without raining on the parents who got into their mid choices even if they didn’t get into their top choice (GO Rocket!!)</p>

<p>debrockmom … yes, DS decided english teacher was “bogus hypocrite” and would not give her his papers to read. We knew from her teaching DD that she did play favorites, but still she could teach. Well D and F soph year english will keep you out of a TON of schools. UC’s allow you to retake and replace those scores, which he did. This is an accepted procedure at the UC’s. However I am sure the D and F showed up big time in other schools which is why I thought he had little chance. </p>

<p>um … forgot who asked but the reason we thought he could handle the MIT/caltech load is that he spends his time doing Euler problems, has a phenominal grasp of science, and has read the Economist for fun for all 4 years of HS. If it interests him, he does the work until it is done. And although he he didn’t join a math club/program he can handle college math including turning in the homework. He got really amazing reviews from going to math camp at UMich in the summer and in EPGY. So it is motivation not brain power that kept him from the things that would have scored him the acceptances.</p>

<p>So I understand about his maturity, I hope this is a kick in the pants that moves him on. Maybe so. And he HAS an (one is enough!!) acceptance at a perfectly fine college so we don’t have to scrounge for another one. This is too close to home which is part of the thing with not wanting to go there.</p>

<p>But is he the ONLY kid getting kicked in the pants this year? Did we all learn from CC that the match / safety list was critical so that there is joy in every household but ours? We DID learn that, thank goodness so he has a safety in hand and a safety still pending, but we thought we also had good matches which are turning out … to NOT match.</p>

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<p>Curmudgeon…glad you agree that we can sacrifice our boys. They are committing suicide at record levels and underperforming like never before.</p>