<p>debrockman- Why did you even post in this thread? Part of why people are “testy” is because you persist in alternating between bragging about your son and his incredible math abilities (which are probably pretty normal for CC kids) and justifying why you aren’t going to pay the price of private college. We get it. Miami of Ohio will serve your son fine. Just get the chip off your shoulder. We also get that your husband is a doctor and has a tough life and health issues and that you have had to work your fingers to the bone in and out of the home. We get that all of your son’s issues (as perceived by you) are because he is a boy and boys should not be expected to deal with the mundane. Don’t give me the persecuted boy B…S… I’ve struggled through a heck of a lot more than YOU have with the son I raised! We had bigger issues than not getting the atta-boys in Spanish class. Unlike you, I don’t feel like boring the forum by posting his AP scores and grades fifteen times in each thread.<br>
Your kid is a JUNIOR. This thread is about handling rejection letters from colleges. Give it a year! See you then.</p>
<p>blossom, I might be misreading your thread, but I sensed a note of hostility toward those who want to work 9 to 5 and then “see their kids” or take a day to see to their child who has pink-eye–as contrasted, perhaps, with some of my colleagues who take days to go duck-hunting or deer-hunting. I think there is actually a big difference between personal days taken in order to care for a young person who is completely dependent on the employee, vs. a personal day taken essentially for personal entertainment. Are you suggesting that women with children should not work, because they cannot be “ambitious”? Or if they do work, then who should “see their kids” in your opinion?</p>
<p>Um, I have a boy who never did sports. He is a straight guy who is a violinist and a Latinist. He is the most mellow person I have ever met. Did all his homework. Also hates to write (take notes) unless on a computer, but did it.</p>
<p>He won the English award as a senior and had AP Calc and AP sciences, too. Had the prettiest girl in the school as his GF.</p>
<p>I think some of the ideas about school and boys and differences are interesting, but they are not the whole story and certainly not Gospel. There are many interpretations of the data.</p>
<p>One interpretation is that women need college to earn the same amount men earn by just graduating high school. Men often go into lucrative, unionized trades. Women can too, of course.</p>
<p>As for men dropping out of society, well it’s tough to learn to share. They were top dog for so long whether their performance entitled them to it or not. How many men rose to prominence on the dedication of a wife or secretary?</p>
<p>The quirky brilliant boys who are the high school leaders can plenty of opportunity to catch up, but no one is going to succeed without hard work somewhere.</p>
<p>James Watson (a nut job, now) was told his IQ wasn’t high enough for science and went on to win the Nobel prize for demonstrating the helical shape of the DNA molecule (along with Francis Crick.) He was a very hard worker by his own account. A different model than Einstein, but also valid.</p>
<p>We don’t need to pit people against each other, nor do we need to pit educational preferences against each other. </p>
<p>Everyone has to do things s/he doesn’t want to do. Some of us are better at it than others. Some make up for it by being especially brilliant or creative. Some don’t. Some luck into cushy well-paid positions, some struggle all their lives and barely make ends meet.</p>
<p>Luck, opportunity, ability and hard work all play a part.</p>
<p>But as curm likes to say, “We are all in this leaky boat together,” so let’s be kind to each other.</p>
<p>Debrockman: I’m sure your son is a fine young man. Sure, no one needs to attend a Ivy to succeed.</p>
<p>And yet, it’s okay for people to feel sad if this was a child’s dream that is not happening.</p>
<p>And the Spanish teacher who gave your son a C sounds a little nuts, but kids do learn that being politic is often as essential to success as ability. And if a kid decides not to play a certain game, well that’s okay too. Some outcomes will be affected and some won’t.</p>
<p>I think the quirky girl who has brilliant ideas and wants recognition for them still has more difficulty getting that recognition than the boy does. Even in our educational system, or especially.</p>
<p>Studies still show that teachers tend to call on boys more and value their “wildcat” ideas more.</p>
<p>Blossom: I winced at your observations that women blame others more. I don’t argue that you’ve observed that, but it seems like a huge generalization, and yes, disturbing to read.</p>
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<p>While that’s excellent, that doesn’t, in and of itself, show that you are not sexist.</p>
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<p>I don’t understand why these statements lead you to the conclusion that we “need our men.” I agree that there’s a problem with men, and that it should be fixed. That said, the problem would be better solved - and indeed, less stressful - if both men and women took on the 50% role. If each person could be 50% worker and 50% home lifer, then there’d be more production and less suicide (ideally). No? So why should we lay it all on the men - or the women?</p>
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<p>I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but what we have here is more than likely a case of Simpson’s Paradox. Men have always achieved. Now that women have finally started being able to achieve, it appears that they are doing so “at the expense of men” when really that is not the case. </p>
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<p>That was what stood out to me.</p>
<p>thanks thumper!</p>
<p>Obviously I will never make it as a newspaper headline title writer since what was clear enough to me (and yay! hollyanne and ctmom) was a whole 'nouther ballgame to other people. </p>
<p>I am just going to keep my head down now and watch in amazement!!!</p>
<p>Be NICE to people, people! Play NICE, MOM SAYS! :)</p>
<p>Quant mech,
I took blossoms post to mean that parents, male and female, want to see their kids, but that moms might be inclined to take the day to take care of a sick kid, all things being equal. I’d have to go back to reread it to be sure, and certainly she can speak for herself.</p>
<p>Don’t have time to look up the data (my taxes are calling…) but whether or not we “need our men”, males significantly outnumber females in frequency of learning disabilities, seizure disorders, etc etc. This is relevant only because there are male/female differences, and I do not see that addressing strengths of women is somehow doing so at the expense of the males. This is not a case of discrimination. It simply isnt. IT is an equal opportunity academic experience. Finally. Women have been trounced on for years. IF men can compete, let themcompete. Don’t expect a woman to defer her well deserved, hard earned spot to a male just because he is male. How provincial. </p>
<p>We all have our personal challenges to deal with. Some may be more vocal here about theirs than others. But life has probably not been a walk in the park for any of us. I have a friend who is recovering from breast cancer. She has one more “procedure” to go. Her H had his own health issues but returned to work, only to lose his job. Fortunately the healthcare benefits are through her company, but she has taken very little time off, even took her laptop with her to chemo. She has a s in college and a dau with learning issues about to go to college. One is an OOS public, one is a private college. Not getting aid. She works her butt off. They are selling their home and downsizing. They are doing whatever it takes. And I never, NEVER hear her whine or complain. Not ever. Never. Did I say never?</p>
<p>This thread is for current parents of current seniors who do wish to share in their frustration. I am totally fine with that. I don’t think it was right to have it hijacked to talk about perceived inequities in the educational system, or in the society in general. Lets let the OP have her thread back!</p>
<p>The reason that there is only 1 girl in the group is that you had to test into this group. Men intellectually sit at the highest and the lowest segments of IQ. It is a fact…thereby my reference to “outliers”. Education has always referred to the phenomenon of the male of the species occupying the outlier position on both ends of the intellectual spectrum as just that. A phenomenon. So although we have lots of girls taking the second year of calc in their senior year, largely only boys tested into this very small group of kids recommended to the two-year advanced group. When my son was recommended for this group, as a woman, I was concerned that he wouldn’t get enough practice. Our math chair reassured me that some kids really don’t need as much of the rote practice and can just move through faster…and who might do better if they didn’t have to drag through things they understood. I had to trust my uncomfortable gut. I know we love to hang people in this country to suggest that statistically the highest achieving math students are likely to be boys…even though it’s true. And thank heaven for them that there was at least one class that doesn’t focus on notebook checks. Their teacher is a woman…very very talented math teacher. There are exceptions to every “rule” There are women who also fall into the highest ability group in math…it’s just more unusual. All this being said, it is more common for a boy to have one side of his intellect markedly more developed than the other. Girls tend to present more balanced statistics. Not always. Just a tendency.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to hijack, OP. I really did not. I just have some sympathy toward a boy who has a highly developed ability level, perhaps skewed toward a specific gift, who might need some maturation to produce the uniformly balanced statistics that an admissions officer wants to see. But despite what the mothers of Ivy Leaguers want to tell you, he will have plenty of opportunity in the real world where passions in a specialized area actually are often very highly rewarded.</p>
<p>It seems to me that some posters on this thread are bemoaning the fact that most high schools do not provide an optimum learning environment for many boys, thereby preventing those boys from gaining entrance into colleges that adhere to standards and practices that will be even more difficult for those same boys. </p>
<p>I’m sorry, but as a parent I tried to find the school environment that were the best fit for my kids’ learning styles – as opposed to fretting over the fact that I couldn’t change my kid to fit the schools that were more likely to impress others. </p>
<p>I haven’t noticed MIT, Cal Tech, or any Ivy League college encountering any shortage of high-achieving, hard working male students to fill their ranks. And I haven’t noticed any shortage of excellent colleges with somewhat more flexible admission criteria that will welcome these high-potential, late bloomers with open arms – sometimes at a considerably reduced cost.</p>
<p>Actually, a study showed that when girls played combat video games (Medal of Honor was one), their spatial skills shoot up and more or less close the “gap” between girls/boys. I was especially amazed to read that they retained this boost for five months after the study with no additional game play.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/users/spence/Feng,%20Spence,%20&%20Pratt%20(in%20press).pdf[/url]”>http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/users/spence/Feng,%20Spence,%20&%20Pratt%20(in%20press).pdf</a></p>
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<p>Do you imagine that there are mothers of Ivy Leaguers on this thread that “want to tell” esobay that her son will not have “plenty of opportunity in the real world where passions in a specialized area actually are often very highly rewarded”? Because if you feel that way, why don’t you just come out and identify which “mothers” those are? Otherwise, your posts come across as generalized hostility, leaving posters feeling confused and defensive.</p>
<p>Oh, and jym, it isn’t widely reported, but many colleges are looking at male applicants slightly differently than girls, because if they didn’t, their classes would be very unbalanced toward women. Not so much the engineering schools, however. </p>
<p>[Colleges</a>’ gender gap - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/25/opinion/la-ed-gender25-2010jan25]Colleges”>Colleges' gender gap)</p>
<p>oh and debrock, there has been a lot of press about that “looking for male applicants differently” because it is DISCRIMINATORY and could potentially be considered ILLEGAL (discriminatory admissions practices have been tested in the courts in Michigan and GA, to name a few). The statistics have caught the attention of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, which is investigating.
Heres that same recent article on gender bias in admissions <a href=“http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-gender25-2010jan25,0,2408850.story[/url]”>http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-gender25-2010jan25,0,2408850.story</a> Be sure to read this part:
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<p>I’m jumping up and down and raising my hand, because my passive-aggressive friend is surely referring to ME as the “testy Ivy League mother”. I’m SO proud to be identified as such! (note to group: I’ve been as critical of aspects of my son’s Ivy school as anyone on this forum, but debrockman is upset because I won’t agree that the Ivy schools are having to fill their classes with foreign students because everyone in the US has wised up and realizes the tuition isn’t worth it.) </p>
<p>Here’s the thing- we have NO idea how these kids will turn out. The smartest, most compassionate CEO I have ever seen is a product of LSU. It wasn’t smooth sailing, according to him. I’ve seen kids just like debrockman’s, who couldn’t wait to get out from under Mommy’s thumb, bomb out of college after a semester because the classes they had to take just didn’t interest them. I think some of them had 800 on SAT math and 5s on a gazillion AP tests!</p>
<p>I am sure the OP’s son will do just fine, and I completely understand her sadness at the rejections.</p>
<p>esobay - has anyone suggested a gap year yet? Is that something that would interest your son? He really does sound like a unique guy who could do the work at a reach school and be a real addition to that kind of campus community. Maybe a gap year spent working on an issue of great interest to him would help him focus his applications on his real areas of strength? If he found the right mentor, the LOR would be more telling than “still doesn’t always turn his homework in on time.”</p>
<p>Or maybe he’ll become very excited about an acceptance from one of his remaining schools and find some great opportunities there. Good luck to him, and to all those kids who, for whatever reasons, will find themselves without the choices they’d hoped for. It will work out, as you already know.</p>
<p>Haven’t had time to read entire thread, but I will raise my hand and say “me too”. My S has SAT scores much higher than you would expect with his GPA. Because of this discussion board I know what to expect with college admissions and can help S find schools he will thrive at.</p>
<p>debrockman-- Maybe you should start a thread with that link??? Post #172</p>
<p>I have only daughters…one is an academic achiever and one is an academic slacker, for the most part. If she wasn’t such an athlete, I’d worry about her work ethic, in fact. </p>
<p>I recall when my girls were first starting school, there was a lot of research coming out about how much the academic system had been set up to favor boys and how much needed to be done for girls, and I know, as parents, we were all really aware of it and working to make sure our girls could succeed.</p>
<p>So, maybe posting a new thread to find solutions to this issue, or to see what kind of research is being done. For example, I know a lot of women sent thier daughters to all girls schools after that bias research came out. The girls did very well in that environment. I know work is being done in our area with the concept of gendered classrooms and schools, which actually seem to benefit everyone.</p>
<p>Anyway, it might be an interesting thread. </p>
<p>Sorry your thread got hi-jacked esobay. </p>
<p>Maybe you could try, “Whine about your slacker kids rejectsions,” that seemed to work for the fin.aid bunch, to some extent.</p>
<p>Momofwildchild, you are the most hostile person in this room. Did that last post make you proud? </p>
<p>frazzled…that’s also a good suggestion. My nephew actually joined the Navy, came out, went to IU as a very mature young man and is now applying to law schools. That’s not always a bad option.</p>
<p>poetgirl…I happen to think that single sex education holds huge possibilities. Trying to accommodate boys at the expense of girls is bad. Trying to accommodate girls at the expense of boys is equivalently bad. Some kids just seem absolutely fine, regardless, but I think there are some kids for whom single sex classrooms are better.</p>
<p>mamom, what are your son’s strengths?</p>