<p>So, I really like Smith, and honestly would be sold and would be sending in my deposit tomorrow if the school was co-ed, but...alas...</p>
<p>About half of my best friends are boys because I tend to get along with them so much better than girls when it comes to sense of humor and just chillaxing. Anyway, since Smith is a women's college, I'm so conflicted! I love the area and the academics and everything about the school except for the gender ratio! I'm not sure what to do. I know everyone says, "Oh, it's not an issue, you still see guys," but I don't really believe it. </p>
<p>I know about the Consortium and all, but that's still so far from having guys on campus. Additionally, the mother of one of my best friends attended Smith and before I even applied was just casually talking to me about her time at Smith. Her then-boyfriend/current husband went to school in either Amherst or Boston (I don't recall exactly), and she said that she spent so much time trying to see him that she didn't take full advantage of her years as a Smithie. I obviously intend to focus on my studies first and foremost, but I also plan on dating during college (especially since I come from a tiny high school and the pickings have been, well, most slim).</p>
<p>I'm just wondering if there are any current Smithies out there who can give me an honest, personal answer to my question. How hard is it to have friends who are boys/meet guys/have a boyfriend when attending Smith? I'm tired of my parents assuring me it won't be an issue without any experience with this issue - time for a real answer!</p>
<p>Thanks in advance for any feedback! The more, the merrier!</p>
<p>How much of an issue it will be will depend on your priorities and how much effort you put into meeting those of the male persuasion. On one hand, your parents say it’s no issue. I don’t think that’s right. On the other hand, “…but I don’t really believe it” leads this reader to the conclusion that nothing anyone says will convince you anyway. Meh. There are plenty of people who <em>want</em> to be there.</p>
<p>I never dreamed my D would go to a women’s college. She had a spectacular time.</p>
<p>I tend to agree with TD, if you don’t believe what people you know are telling you about Smith, we online strangers are unlikely to be able to change your mind. It’s true that Smith doesn’t offer the same level of co-ed interaction as a co-ed college. That being said, it certainly can offer you some level, but how much depends on your priorities and the effort you put into it. Like most things in life, you get out what you put in. </p>
<p>I know students who structure their schedules so they can spend at least one or two full days on other campuses. Students who participate in theater and a capella groups that either take them off campus or bring them into regular contact with partner groups that are either co-ed or all male. You can go to parties/sporting events/cultural events/ join clubs/take classes at one of the nearby campuses, and people from those campuses can and do do the same at Smith. Some sports teams (swimming, fencing, etc) compete in leagues where the meets are co-ed. Some people spend a lot of time at fraternity parties at neighboring campuses, or encourage their student orgs to do co-events with frats. Many people choose to study abroad for a year in co-ed institutions. None of this will amount to the same level of interaction as if you were on a co-ed campus where you’d be living with, or a floor away from, boys. But for most Smithies, they find what works for them and they go with that. </p>
<p>One thing to think about: When you go to grad school, when you get a job, pretty much for the rest of your life, you’ll be around men. So in the scheme of things, four years of slightly more limited interaction is only a tiny blip. Also, when you are out in the co-ed world, you’ll also be necessarily in a society and possibly in a business that is dominated by and built to primarily benefit men. In that sense, having four years at Smith, a place that’s built for the express purpose of empowering and educating women, becomes huge. This is your one opportunity to experience life in a place where your gender is something to celebrate, not something to be overcome. I can’t emphasize enough what a good sense of grounding and confidence that gives you for life in the “real world”. You should realize that for what you’re “giving up” by going to Smith, you’re also gaining this incredible experience, which can only be found at a woman’s college. You’re building friendships and professional networks with other women that will prove invaluable in your months and years ahead. </p>
<p>I don’t know if it’s a good idea to go to Smith if you see it primarily as a sacrifice. You shuold go because you recognize how much it could benefit you and all the things that you’d be gaining if you became a student there. If you can’t get past what you’re not getting, to see what you’ll have, then maybe another school would be a better fit.</p>
<p>I definitely see what it came across as, but I guess I just want to be persuaded. Smithie, you did a good job of that. Ahh, college decisions are hard as it is! Anyway, I’m trying to work out my schedule so that I’ll be able to attend the accepted students day at Smith so I can get a genuine feel for who my classmates would be and what becoming a Smithie myself would be like. Thank you for your words!</p>
<p>liveoffthewall: My D chose a woman’s college just so that she could make the kind of women friends she’d been lacking. She is also the kind of woman who finds it easier to make male friends, and she’d been lacking the kind of friend Anne Shirley (Anne of Green Gables) calls a “bosom buddy.” She was rewarded in her efforts, and now has two life-long friends whom she treasures.</p>
<p>Even though there was a co-ed school available to her, she visited a close guy friend at Yale and stayed in his suite (they weren’t dating, just friends) when she wanted an intense guy fix. This seemed to work well for her.</p>
<p>And she appreciated the lack of beer parties, noise, etc on her floor.</p>
<p>She found that the women at Yale were not as fearless as the women at her school in expressing themselves because they were looking over their shoulder for male approval, which she wasn’t in the classroom, although there were always some males there due to the workings of her school.</p>
<p>I am not trying to convince you; I am just bringing up points you may not have considered. Not everyone is the same; you must make the choice best for you, and only you know that.</p>
<p>The answer to your question is all about whether or not you are willing to put in time to leave the Smith bubble. If you never take classes at Hampshire/UMass/Amherst, or if you never go to events at those places or join five college groups, go to religious services in town or Amherst…then your interaction will probably be limited to guys who take classes at Smith. The thing about a same-sex school is that if you want experiences of any kind with the opposite sex, you have to make them happen because unless you seek them out, odds are they won’t magically find you. </p>
<p>Yeah, you might find guys around Smith campus. I have had multiple classes with guys, some with more than one, even. Today, actually, I was kind of surprised because there seemed to be more than usual. But really making connections with guys at any level means getting out of the Smith bubble on a regular basis. If you aren’t willing to do that, those connections won’t happen. </p>
<p>But I would urge you to consider Smith regardless. It’ a unique and challenging experience to be here, and there are pros and cons, like with anything else in life. If the pros mean enough to you, then four years with the cons…well, it’s worth it.</p>
<p>My daughter is also concerned about attending an all-womens school.</p>
<p>Which is interesting as she’s not so much as had a single date during her HS years.</p>
<p>However, with 2 brothers and many male friends she admits that she is “scared”
about the prospect of committing to 4 years with no consistent male contact.</p>
<p>If she were able to talk with some current students about this it might (or might not!)
help her; can the school or someone on this forum put her in contact with some
students. She’s attended open campus, a prior visit, and has participated in the
on-line sessions but I think she needs some one-on-one conversations…</p>
<p>I think the above are all suggestions. And I think most women who have experienced women’s colleges treasure their time there. I know my D does. She has a very nice boyfriend, but without her experience of a woman’s college, I doubt if she would have the strong friendships with women that she does. Both are important.</p>
<p>Did she try to discuss some of her concerns with her host at Open Campus or during the online chat sessions? The Admissions Office would probably be happy to put her in touch with a current student, but if she didn’t bring up the issue in prior events I’d make sure she’s comfortable discussing it with someone she doesn’t know very well. Also, if there’s a Smith Club in your area, they’ll likely have a local admissions rep that can chat with her or put her in touch with a current student. The “I have a lot of male friends and I’m freaked out by being in all female place” fear is a common concern, along with the fear that “I get along better with guys than girls, so how will I do in a girls-only place”. You’ll find many posts here, on this thread and on the board in general, from current and past students on their experiences. I hope it helps!</p>
<p>drtjtdad1, did she make any friends at the Open Campus event? How about her host? Could she talk to her? My daughter didn’t have one date in all of high school (she went to prom with a male friend) and she had the same concerns. She loves her friends at Smith and wouldn’t trade them for the world. When she comes home for break, she also enjoys spending some brief time with her two good male friends from high school. She hasn’t worked that hard at meeting men although there have been some in her classes and through other circumstances such as Glee Club. She’s in her junior spring semester abroad at Oxford, so suffice it to say, it’s a different story right now. I would strongly suggest that your daughter read SmithieandProud’s post #4. My daughter knows that there will be men in her life and right now she’s making full use of her experience at Smith.</p>
<p>My daughter really enjoyed her Open Campus visit and did make some friends. The person she stayed with is from our area and very nice; she liked her.</p>
<p>Having seen her two older brothers (to whom she is very attached) go off to college in the last few years, I almost wonder if deep-down this would be another level of seperation angst…</p>
<p>Any idea how many boys from the “sister” schools take classes at Smith? Would she see a guy rarely? Daily? In almost every class?</p>
<p>On a daily basis how many guys will she “bump” into on campus, library, etc? None? A couple? Lots?</p>
<p>I personally feel she would do well at Smith. She has tremendous potential for which I believe she needs the right, nurturing environement to unlock. Her other school options are campuses that will be more familiar to her; probably a similar social-economic mix to her HS. Thats the problem…(?)</p>
<p>One problem I see is when she asks “what about the guys”, a common response is “this is an opportunity for you to be out of the mans world for 4 years”. I just don’t think she comprehends the benefit in this concept.</p>
<p>We’ll see if we can get a few more students for her to talk to. They also have an on-line session tonight.</p>
<p>Thanks for everyone’s input! This is my third and last child going through this process and each has been a down-to-the-wire decision. We must be doing something wrong…!</p>
<p>Last time I saw a report on Five-College class sharing (and it was probably five years ago), Smith had the largest “in-migration” of students - it was around 325 a year. Not all of them will be men of course.</p>
<p>People make an error if they think of Smith as a liberal arts college that happens to be all women. It’s not. It is a women’s college that teaches the liberal arts (and engineering). They think very purposively about the trajectory of women’s lives, they set up programs that address students’ future needs as women (i.e. the women and finances program), they think directly about it will be necessary to prepare women to participate in male-dominated professions (i.e. women as future engineering managers), they look for women role models.</p>
<p>Your point is very good and is one of the main reason Smith shines over other “girls schools”.</p>
<p>However, at the age of 17 when for your whole life you have lived with and around “boys”, (many of whom you like and respect) I can see that it would be a daunting proposition to all but eliminate that aspect for 3-4 years.</p>
<p>At my stage of life, if someone told me I was going to go to the male-equivalent of Smith I would have no problem with it. But then, I have 35 years of experience that she doesn’t have. It is alot easier for me to see how much the benefits outwiegh this one percieved negative.</p>
<p>She just needs to have more dialogue with current Smith students and we are working on that…</p>
<p>The other women’s colleges do the same and have the philosophy mini mentions. Smith was a finishing school when Barnard existed only to train women for professions. I would not say Barnard is superior to Smith because it has more than caught up but do we need to say Smith is head and shoulders above the others? This is something I find only on the Smith board. Barnard, Wellesley, Bryn Mawr and Mt. Holyoke have these goals too(and at least in the case of Barnard articulate them too – probably the all do. For all I know Scripps and Agnes Scott do too. When Hilary spoke at my daughter’s Barnard graduation she spoke as Secretary of State but she also made the point of speaking as a sister graduate of a women’s college. With all the flak Barnard women take from the other side of Broadway (primarily from the women) they are now and have always been aware of the political ramifications of their educations and working lives.</p>
<p>Having said that, I admire and endorse mini’s description of Smith. It IS a wonderful, unique institution.</p>
<p>Myth mom - mini didn’t say the other women’s colleges didn’t have the same philosophy. He was just describing Smith, that’s all. No put downs of other women’s colleges were evident or implied.</p>
<p>As a current Smithie (and also as someone who transferred into Smith after spending a year at a large co-ed school) I will say this: seeing guys at Smith is easy. You’ll see them when you walk around town, in the library, at smith parties, and in some of your classes (though fwiw I haven’t had a single guy in any of my classes thus far - I think it also depends on what you study). However, making friends with guys/dating them? <em>You</em> have to put in the extra effort - I know many girls at Smith who have healthy dating lives/boyfriends but they really put the effort in (they joined clubs at UMASS/Hampshire, took many classes off campus, work off campus, attend other colleges’ events on weekends regularly, etc). I came to Smith to form friendships with the students here (some of whom are male/male identified, again fwiw) and to have access to a beyond wonderful education - with the idea in mind that while it would be nice to make male friends/have a boyfriend it was not my priority. I would suggest that if this is a priority for you, seriously consider the amount of effort you want to put into finding guys. It’s doable but nowhere near as accessible as it is at co-ed school, honestly. </p>
<p>I don’t say this to discourage anyone from coming to Smith since I absolutely LOVELOVELOVE it here and would encourage all the prospies EVER to attend, but I wouldn’t want anyone to be misled. Also keep in mind that this is just my experience, and if anyone has more questions about this topic or anything else feel free to PM me!!!</p>
<p>I tend not to want to talk much about things I don’t know. (But I do anyway! ;))</p>
<p>At any rate, my freshman roommate at Williams became the first male graduate of Vassar.</p>
<p>There were (oddly enough) ways in which Smith, when a “finishing school” was actually more difficult than it is today. (I was in school at the very tail end of that period.) It was extremely difficult to get in, and in addition to top-flight academics, students had to learn how to set a table, host a large dinner party, and do the social graces thing. It was part of what Smithies were actually taught. And, in some ways, the emphasis upon the trajectory of women’s lives today (best articulated by Jill Ker Conway) is an outgrowth, rather than a repudiation, of that history.</p>
<p>(Not to put too much of a point on it, but Williams definitely WAS a finishing school.)</p>