Smith College

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
521

<p>as well as great strength in chemistry and physics.}}</p>

<p>A researcher/professor friend of mine at Yale believes Smith is very close to Wellesley in the in the sciences and better in bio. Any differences should be a thing of the past when Smith completes its new science center.</p>

<p>Fwiw- That’s only one person’s thoughts so hopefully no student will make a decision on one women’s opinion. I was a chemistry major for a number of years--notice the lack of writing skills--and the while the professors in any subject are certainly of importance, it’s the equipment that often makes for a much better dept over another. Smith will have the latest/greatest in the near future.</p>

522

<p>That's Christ's goal - to make it the number one destination for future women scientists of any school in the country, just as it is already the number one school in the country for Fulbright scholars.</p>

523

<p>
[quote]
Smith is one of the top four-year colleges sending women to doctoral studies in the sciences. Thirty percent of Smith students major in the sciences – more than three times the national average for women.

[/quote]

And once the new science center opens, look out! I think President Christ is right on the money with this one.</p>

524

<p>Wow, the daily jolt list of things to bring is great for students going to any college really :)</p>

525

<p>My daughter transferred out of Smith due to the intense pressure to be Polictially correct:</p>

<p>extreme liberal social and political views only; alternate though was derided by faculty and students alike.</p>

<p>The pressure to be gay or gay until graduation was extreme.</p>

<p>My daughter called the cops due to behavior undertaken by Smith faculty at the Engineer science camp for high school girls that gay staff used as a happy hunting ground. Smith covered it up, the the staff are still in those same positions.</p>

<p>The intolerance and narrow mindedness was overwhelming.</p>

526

<p>Straight students don't feel marginalized at Smith ..... They leave.</p>

<p>I've never experience such an intolerant culture anywhere.</p>

527

<p>Whoa, whoa, that's just completely out of the line with your comments about Smith's culture. Now, I don't know what house your D lived in and who her friends were but you have to realize that Smith fosters an atmosphere where students who were previously oppressed for their sexual orientation and beliefs can finally voice their thoughts and opinions. Straight students seem to be in the minority because, well, the rest of the world knows about heterosexuality and accepts it. So what do they have to say? Not much! The LBQT students want acceptance for a change so they make their voices heard to educate others about thier lifestlyes and to actually life it without fear.</p>

<p>I came from a Republican leaning community where homosexuality was rather looked down upon and many students would wait until after graduation to open up. Coming to Smith was a cultural shock- not even my uncle and his partner could have prepared me for it. Smith's culture seriously made me question my own sexuality because of my perception of what was going on between the women- were they sleeping together? Or were they just really good friends with no sexual attraction? I was just basically completely lost of what female friendship really meant. There were people that I liked and made friends with but I couldn't trust them enough to tell me the truth. As one of my Smith friends, being a typical Smithie, confessed to me when I visited her when we were studying abroad in different places, "Girl, when I first met you, you were SO uptight that I thought you needed to hook up big time!" That's exactly how sheltered I was from the realities of the gay and liberal culture.</p>

<p>I transferred in hopes of having a more relaxed, less anxiety ridden atmosphere that wasn't full of PC. I did find it so I could sort out my beliefs, values, and thoughts. And let me tell you something, it has been nearly 4 years since I left the campus and Smith has taught me about life MORE than any other places. It has made me a much better person. I've grown much more comfortable with a variety of issues and supportive of what my friends believed and did their lives/careers/academics. Smith taught me to look inside each person for what they have to offer in hand of friendship rather than judge by their profile or outer physique. My mother and grandmother still complain to this day about the Smith women they made- how sloppy they were and didn't take good care of themselves and my response is, "That's just who they are and they're really nice and caring people deep down."</p>

<p>It's perfectly normal for sudents to hate and love Smith at the same time. My mom probably thought I was going bipolar or something because she had never seen such extremes in my attitude. But like big state universities aren't for everyone, Smith isn't for everyone. And it wasn't for me, unfortunately, but I am very glad that I had the chance to be there for a year.</p>

528

<p>I don't know what toad stool's issue is, but straight students at Smith neither feel marginalized nor do they leave. I'm straight and I'm happy, well integrated, and couldn't imagine being in a better place. </p>

<p>At any liberal arts college in New England, you're going to have to deal with a culture that some may find to be "too PC". And definitely, the majority of people at Smith are left-leaning. And as ticklemepink says, Smith is not for everyone, it wasn't for her (too bad, she's awesome!) and it obviously wasn't for your daughter. </p>

<p>But that does not mean that Smith is an intolerant place where people are pressured to be gay. I'm a student there and I can personally attest that that is simply a pernicious lie.</p>

529

<p>It looks like I picked a good day to drop back in on CC for a few minutes. </p>

<p>Toadstool is mostly way out of line. Due to its reputation as a gay haven, one of my D's two main concerns prior to attending Smith was whether she, as a straight woman, would feel comfortable there, whether she would feel pressured or marginalized. Two visits convinced her that it would be no problem and after four years---she graduated this past May---there never was a "problem" regarding gay students or interaction with them. She had many friends, some of whom hit from one side of the plate, some from the other, and some from both. Smith is a rare place where young gay women can be comfortable in being who they are without concealing their identity and perhaps itself just freaks some people out; certainly, one will not be comfortable at Smith unless one is gay-tolerant.</p>

<p>In terms of pressure or unacceptable behavior, I think one is for more likely to encounter it a co-ed college...does it matter whether it's "straight" or "gay" in its offensiveness? </p>

<p>As S&P says, the notion that there's pressure at Smith to be gay or "LUG" (Lesbian until graduation) is a pernicious lie.</p>

<p>Smith, like many New England (and elsewhere) LAC's, does have an excess of PC. My politically liberal but socially moderate church-going daughter would just roll her eyes sometimes...which I think is an appropriate response, as opposed to an over-the-top tirade.</p>

530

<p>I am sorry to read that toadstool's D had such a negative reaction to Smith. My D is an '06 grad, and still involved with the school -- attended her 2-year reunion this past spring, participates in a Smith alum book club, and has served as a regional interviewer for Smith applicants. She even recruited for her firm for Smith grads this year (resulting in a Smithie '08 hire). </p>

<p>So even though she graduated two years ago, my D remains involved with the school and appreciative of her experiences there. Her most recent vacation was to Morocco, at the suggestion of a fellow '06 Smith grad who is currently a tour guide there (the *only *female tour guide for her firm out of the 20 based in Morocco).</p>

<p>My D happens to be hetero, and politically liberal, but rather traditional in her personal life. She did find the political scene at Smith less diverse than ideal, and felt that acceptable positions ranged from somewhat liberal through ultra liberal. While she was comfortable with that, a broader range would have been ideal in our opinion -- if only so that the table discussions could have had a greater diversity of opinions. But the meaningful thing is that politics and other significant issues were being discussed at meals.</p>

<p>With respect to the gay issue, all I can say is that my D has Smithie friends of all sexual persuasions, and the only common denominator is that they are all dynamic and interesting women. It is often only later, in coming to know some of her friends, that the matter of their sexual orientation has even come up. In other words, that is not what defines them. Nor did my D ever feel any pressure to change her own orientation. Her gay as well as her hetero friends are interested in updates on her dating life, ask to see pictures of her boyfriend, etc. I am not aware of any LUGS in her circle -- her gay friends have been gay as long as she has known them, and have remained gay -- at least so far as I know.</p>

<p>Her father and I do think that our D's years at Smith significantly influenced her in maximizing her potential. We were witnesses to her growth those four years. She is now in her third year of very comfortably and effectively working in a heavily male career. (One reason she wanted to recruit at Smith was to secure more female companionship in the workplace!) Her field was actually suggested to her by a Smith prof who picked up on her particular strengths. </p>

<p>We will never know if the outcome would have been the same had D attended another college, but we suspect not. The personal attention and support she received at Smith was critical, we feel, for our D to bloom as she did.</p>

<p>Anyone who is totally freaked out by same-sex couples, etc., will either have a very hard time at Smith or will adjust. IMO it is the former who are likely to transfer. IMO it is the latter who will grow and benefit from the experience.</p>

531

<p>Great post, Jyber. </p>

<p>"Maximizing potential" is what Smith is about. My D, too, is working in a field that skews male and his having no problems whatsoever. Moreover, the potential that Smith helped her realize is what helped her get the job she has. It's difficult for me to conceive of a college that maximized my D's potential any more than Smith did. </p>

<p>Re: range of positions from "somewhat liberal" to "ultra liberal." Cf., having a "Left" hand and a "Far Left" hand, LOL. Kinda like the city where we live, where I pass as a conservative, ROFLASTC.</p>

532

<p>For what it's worth, my d. thought political opinion at Smith a bit conservative, staid (read: Democratic), and well-heeled for her tastes, though there were pockets. (She had attended Evergreen.)</p>

<p>Smith is nowhere the gay haven that Yale is. </p>

<p>She is now a happy graduate student at a top-5 Ivy program. Not a single one of her classmates came from an Ivy undergraduate program. In fact, only one faculty member did his undergraduate work at an Ivy, which is interesting, given that they are all now teaching Ivy undergrads. She was chosen on the strength of Smith's undergraduate program, research opportunities in the humanities virtually unparalleled anywhere else, and language programs that, as it turned out, put her Ivy university to shame.</p>

533

<p>Mini and The Dad..or anyone else who may have a response...</p>

<p>My family is very unfamiliar with the entire financial process, especially when it comes to taking out loans. My dad isn't paying as much as Smith expects him to, so My mom and I need to make up the differenc eon top of what my mom is expected to pay. I was already given a direct loan for each year totaling 20k by the time I graduate.... We don't want 40k in loans on top of that. So my questions is, are loans very common? Do some people graduate with 60k in loans? Is Smith worth it?</p>

<p>(btw, I'm applying for scholarships) and would it make a difference if my dad called and explained that he will only pay x amount...my dad being the non custodial parent)</p>

<p>Thank you so much for any advice you might be able to give!</p>

534

<p>Like all colleges and universities, Smith could care less about what your dad "thinks he should pay". It's really not their concern, and, when you think about it, it shouldn't be, should it? I mean, why ask for all that financial aid information if instead they could simply ask families what they think they should pay?</p>

<p>Although it wasn't necessary in our case, PLUS loans for parents are very common on top of the standard 20k or so in Stafford loans or their equivalent for the student. These are based on the assumption that parents should not be paying full costs through current income, but either through past savings (or loans based on past savings, such as home equity loans etc.), or through future earnings (loans, to be repaid in dollars iscounted for inflation).</p>

<p>If your dad called and could make the case that he "couldn't" pay the amount requested, it might make a difference. But that "he will only pay x amount" will not likely help in the least.</p>

<p>Is it "worth it"? Worth is in the eye of the purchaser. Some folks, who have it, think it is worth $200k. Others can't pay $20k, so the question would be irrelevant.</p>

535

<p>Loan amounts vary a lot depending on students financial situation, but it is common for students to have loans. Is it worth it? Well, that's kind of up to you. Some think it is (I do) but they're not always in the same financial situation. </p>

<p>Mini is right, it probably won't matter what your dad says he will pay. He can call and try to make the case that he is unable to pay the contribution that is expected of him, but he'll need to make the case based on his income and assets and so on.</p>

536

<p>Thank you for the response. </p>

<p>Do you know of people (in general, not just Smithies), who graduate with 60 or 70k in loans? Since I don't know a lot about his, I don't know if that much money in loans is reasonable or not..or common. I guess it depends with what kind of career you are pursuing?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

537

<p>60k-70k for a student just coming out of college is very difficult.</p>

<p>65k at 7% (if you can get it), with a 1% origination fee, comes to $762/mo for 10 years (and it starts when you took out the loan, not when you graudate. At 10% of income, that would require an average income of $91k; at 15%, $61k. So the question is how much of it is to be paid by the student, and how much by parents.</p>

<p>My general rule of thumb is that $30k for a student should be max; and $20k is better. But others will feel differently.</p>

538

<p>I agree with much of what Mini says. Smith---or any college---doesn't care about what a parent will or won't pay. The expectations are tough but doable. I agree also that a student loan max of $20K is where my comfort zone is though I can see $30K in extenuating circumstances. </p>

<p>With the total aid, our contribution was only a little over what we would have paid for a UCLA or UC/Berkeley education, assuming D didn't get a Presidential Scholarship to one of the latter, not out of the question. I'd make the same choice every time but there's a big difference between a <em>parent</em> going into debt and the student going into the same amount of debt. What's a load for us as parents would be pretty crushing for most recent grads. Save the major student debt for graduate and/or professional school if need be.</p>

<p>We weren't in a position to save over the years for D's college so we had to take significant loans to cover our expected part. For me, it's a no brainer: I'd rather have D have a Smith education than me have a pretty nice SUV (oxymoron, imho). We're to the point now where just about 20 percent of the first year's loan is paid off and the fourth year's loan hasn't had its up-front interest paid off yet. Bleah. It's a long process.</p>

539

<p>Daughter one a sophmore at Smith, daughter 2 applied early decision and did not get in. Needless to say we were shocked. D1 very involved at Smith. Error on her essay was the reason. Her recommendations were fantastic and she is very involved in community service.</p>

540

<p>Did she apply ED this past fall and not get in? I'm sorry to hear that.</p>