<p>Wellesley or Smith for English/Art major
OK, I have 10 days to decide which to go to.
I am interested in English, Art History, and Studio Art (specifically photography). Which school has stronger literature and art departments?
I plan to study abroad in France and take French.
Also, I am a very artsy person and would like to be around fellow artsy, literature-minded people, while getting the best education possible.</p>
<p>Wellesley +: prestige, great academics and teachers, more selective, beautiful campus, near Boston, highly successful graduates
Wellesley -: very annoyingly privileged town, weird isolated feeling, more stressful </p>
<p>Smith +: a part 5 college consortium, renowned art museum, beautiful campus, cute town
Smith -: not as intellectually/ politically diverse, less selective/ prestigious</p>
<p>That'd be great to have opinions from any current or past students, or anyone knowledgeable about the colleges.</p>
<p>I think that with the “less prestigious” you’re playing with fool’s gold. And I would not cede any ground on the notion of Smith being “less intellectually diverse.” There are very few slackers at Smith and if you are cavalier in thinking it’s less competitive you’ll find your lunch being eaten in the classroom or the studio.
A little less selective, yes; Smith uses a more holistic approach.</p>
<p>Fwiw, my D had the same final two and never regretted her choice.</p>
<p>And Art is one of Smith’s strongest departments and most popular majors. I think their English department is pretty good, too. D loved her Modern British Fiction course.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone on this forum will be able to tell you much you’d don’t already know. They both have everything you are looking for, both can serve you well. No one on this list went to both. Smithies and Smith parents will likely prefer Smith; Wellesleyites will likely prefer Wellesley. </p>
<p>There is (if one believes the data) substantially more economic diversity at Smith, which will affect the way the campus feels. (Which you might consider good or not.) You’ll get your prestige points at either (and after the first 15 seconds of a job interview or conversation, no one will care), you’ll find fantastic teachers at both (and some crummy ones as well). There are distribution requirements at Wellesley and none at Smith (but then most Smithies elect to take what are equivalent to distribution requirements anyway.)</p>
<p>So decide on look and feel, location, and where you think you’ll feel most comfortable and challenged.</p>
<p>But if photography is really serious, take a look at this:</p>
<p>I don’t think that’s something Wellesley can come even close to matching.</p>
<p>(Full disclosurer: my d. turned down Williams and bunch of others for Smith; Wellesley, based on feel, wasn’t even in the mix. But I bet if you go to the Wellesley forum, you might find someone who says the same thing in reverse. My college classmate Eric Reeves, who teaches Milton at Smith, is among the world’s leading experts on the struggles in the Sudan.)</p>
<p>I don’t know that I would say Smith is less socially diverse than Wellesley or that we’re less prestigious in any way, but everyone has their own barometer for those things. Speaking as a graduate who works in a world where prestige comes in handy, I’ve found that Smith’s currency is just as good as anyone’s and better than some. </p>
<p>Smith has a great art department, particularly for photography. One of my best friends was an English major/art minor with a focus on photography and spoke very highly of her courses throughout. The art building is one of the newer buildings on campus, it’s a great facility with plenty of space for photo development, an amazing print making shop, a good woodworking studio, as well as private studio spaces for the senior art students, a student gallery that changes regularly, and did I mention they have a lot of space? The department have great professors, and it’s available to students 24/7 to work on the projects as long as they have the desire. </p>
<p>Art History one of the biggest majors on campus, which means it has lots of resources and professors dedicated to it, whcih translates to a deep range of courses for you to take. </p>
<p>Smith also has the 2nd best collegiate art museum in the country (second only to Oberlin College) so you have great contemporary art shows coming right to your campus from people working in the field, as well as access to a really good internal collection. The art library has a huge digital image catalogue to assist you in your work. And you have the rest of the consortium in an area that’s very attractive to artists (lots of working artists in the area, small galleries, good shows). It’s also an extremely literate area, the Pioneer Valley is home to tons of writers and it’s one of the only places where i’ve ever seen independent bookstores and used bookstores really thrive in almost every town. So while I can’t say that Smith’s or Wellesley’s programs are better, Smith does have the advantage of being in an area of the state that, while somewhat more rural, is a real mecca for professional writers and artists as well as people studying literature and art. </p>
<p>As a fun historical factoid: Smith’s study abroad program in France began sending Smithies to Paris in 1925, though the Smith association with France starts in 1917 Smithies when a contingent went as a relief unit to bring food and medical aid to refugees and soldiers (of course, that wasn’t really study abroad!). The gates that stand in front of the college (and are on a lot of the stationary) were designed in France as a memorial to the relief unit. They’re replicas of the gates of the Grecourt Chateau, where the unit made their headquarters during the war (they eventually had to evacuate the chateau and surrounding villages ahead of a German advance).</p>
<p>TheDad,
To be clear, I do not at all believe Smith has “slackers.” I’m completely confident that Smith students are very hardworking, and I was honored to be accepted. What I was trying to get at is at Smith there seem to be many politically like-minded people. Not that my political standpoint differs from most Smith students, but I do enjoy some diversity in that sense. It’s more reflective of reality and offers richer class discussion.
I am not one to judge schools based on prestige, but the fact of the matter is that it is something one must consider as someone about to enter today’s fierce job market, especially someone intending to go into the writing and the arts. When seriously considering two great schools, I believe it one of many perfectly legitimate deciding factors. </p>
<p>mini and SmithieandProud, thank you for the thorough comments. I would likely take advantage of the 5 college consortium and attend classes at Hampshire and Amherst. Also, the Smith art building is truly beautiful and has excellent facilities. I am leaning toward Smith for that reason, actually.</p>
<p>Englishlover, though I agree that Smith is definitely dominated by one political group, I do think that there are students whose beliefs differ from the norm. I myself tend to be slightly right of center, and Smith is one of - if not my top choice school. I think you will find diversity if you seek it out. I won’t try and convince you that Smith is a top choice school for many Glen Beck loving, hard core republicans, but you will find some more conservative students. It defiantly does take a certain type of person, though, to be in the minority in such a politically charged place, but there definitely are some who are secure in their opinions.</p>
<p>I think TD was just commenting on the fact that it’s not correct to say that Smith is cateogrically less prestigious than Wellesley. I think they boast more or less equal numbers of women leaders in business, politics, science and the arts. If it’s your perception that one has the edge over the others in that area, well, everyone has there own barometer for this, as I said, and in the end I guess it’s your perception that matters since this is your choice. I wish you luck with making it, it’s not an easy one to do! </p>
<p>They’re both good schools and you can’t go wrong with either. We will on this board naturally be a bit more biased towards Smith (probably if you went to the Wellesley board they would be more biased towards Wellesley), but I do honestly think Smith offers a great education in both English and Art, probably two of our traditionally strongest areas of study.</p>
<p>It came down to those two for my daughter as well. Wellesley has a big name because it’s close to Boston and gets attention. At decision-time two years ago, my daughter was more enamored of Wellesley because of its “prestige” yet when she did overnights at both schools, she had a much friendlier, more comfortable, more inclusive experience at Smith, so that was an eye-opener for her.</p>
<p>As for the English Department, it is one of the strongest departments on campus with one of the highest numbers of majors; take a look at how many English profs are employed at Smith; that will give you some inkling of its popularity. My daughter is an English major and Archives minor and she eats it all up with a spoon. If you want an example of the possibility of serious academics and prestige, she has been accepted at one of the two most prestigious universities outside London for study abroad next spring, but I can’t divulge it yet because she hasn’t said yes; she wants to talk first to a senior who attended last year and who’s going to grad school there next year. When I think about the opportunity for serious study for her there, I still pinch myself. </p>
<p>Smith is a well-balanced school with 1/3 in humanities, 1/3 in the sciences and 1/3 in fine and performing arts, so your stated interests will be well supported.</p>
<p>Both schools offer excellent educations; you really can’t go wrong. Have you done overnights at both?</p>
<p>CB, that was part of my D’s experience as well: Wellesley had the prestige, but Smith was just more comfortable and friendlier. Since graduation, she has said that she thinks she intuitively felt that W would reinforce some of her perfectionist traits too much and that Smith made her more well rounded.</p>
<p>EL, a Smith degree won’t be a problem in the job market. D applied for one job in a prestigious place of employment relevant to her field, got it. I’m pretty sure that her degree didn’t hold her back. Actually, come to think of it, they <em>invited</em> her to apply for the job after turning her down for an internship where her availability didn’t work too well for them.</p>
<p>I’m always somewhat amused by the “prestige” conversations. Where I live, neither has ANY prestige to speak of. If people know of them, it is usually from tv or movie portrayals, or someone’s great aunt. I’m bet the majority of folks I know, given the word “Wellesley” on a piece of paper, would struggle to pronounce it. And Smith? sounds like a cough drop of recent memory.</p>
<p>The graduate schools know them, the law schools know them. They both have great alumnae networks (I think Smith’s is a bit larger.) In art history? The art “mafia” comes from Williams! (Yes, Smith has a better “college” art museum, but it doesn’t have the Clark Art Institute, so who are we kidding? Oberlin’s museum is laughable compared with the Clark.) (No one has heard of Williams either.) </p>
<p>And after you’ve had your first job, your undergrad school will come up for about 10-15 seconds in a hiring conversation, and then it will be “what have you done recently, and what can you do for me now?” </p>
<p>This is of course a college board and so these are the sorts of things we discuss, but it’s amazing to me how unimportant the “prestige” conversation is in the real world. (And if you want some networking opportunities where I live, the best choice by far is Brigham Young.)</p>
<p>What counts is where you will feel comfortable, and challenged.</p>
<p>3 art history students got very competitive summer internships at prestigious museums last year (the Met, the Cloisters and the MOMA). It seems that letters of recommendation from Smith profs are taken very seriously. The Art History department has an excellent reputation, both in the professional and the academic world.</p>
<p>@Mini, Williams was tied with Amherst for my second choice back in the day – almost completely because of the Clark. :)</p>
<p>@Englishlover: for most students, especially after a visit, the choice is clear. Have you gone to accepted students days at both? While there may be cross-applications and acceptances between the two, each seems to appeal to a completely different set of women. Since you got into two highly respected liberal arts colleges, prestige should no longer be the issue. Go for the “fit.”</p>
<p>I was going to apply to Wellesley, but decided not to in the end. I talked to a bunch of students from both Smith and Wellesley (as well as Bryn Mawr since I was going to apply there), and found that Wellesley girls were stuck up and well…sort of snobby, where Smith girls were EXTREMELY friendly. Of course, I’ve only talked to a few Wellesley girls so I’m biased, but this is what influenced my decision. As for prestige, I would say both are extremely good schools, and the only reason Wellesley has a lower acceptance rate is because of their little consortium type of thing with Harvard…(they advertise them as a “backdoor to harvard” type of school…) Again, I don’t mean to offend anyone but that’s how the lady at the college fair was trying to sell Wellesley <em>shrug</em> </p>
<p>As for which college offers the better of the programs you’ve mentioned, I honestly don’t know. I just wanted to give you an idea as to why some students might apply to Smith and not Wellesley. </p>
<p>I just wanted to be honest about the impression I got when I talked to some Wellesley students, and I don’t mean to offend anyone.</p>
<p>“Checked over at the Wellesley board and not one response to a similar thread…hmmm.” -Bossf51</p>
<p>You see what I mean? <em>shrug</em></p>
<p>Again, no offense. I’m only speaking my mind and practicing the freedom of speech.</p>
<p>I think feminists should refrain from wholesale putdowns of sister schools. “Back door to Harvard” is not fair, I don’t think. Besides, Wellesley’s consortium is with MIT, not Harvard.</p>
<p>Choosing among different schools is a matter of style. Some will feel comfortable at Wellesley while others will prefer Smith, even though both are academically rigorous. FWIW, the two recent Wellesley grads I know are hardly snobs.</p>
<p>I just checked to see if the OP got any responses to her post on the Wellelsey forum yet. I find that very sad that no one has responded there to help inform her decision.</p>
<p>Hi all. Since I have no horse in this race, and I am a PhD in English with a son who is going to grad school in Art History I thought I’d check on the courses and report my impressions. This is strictly subjective and should be given only minor consideration in making this choice.</p>
<p>Art: I have to say the Smith Art Department is a clear winner – 30 faculty members as opposed to around 17 for Wellesley with five or six adjuncts or visiting professors. I was impressed that on the majors page Smith listed Art History and Studio Art separately, and Wellesley did not, though this distinction was made when I opened up to the Art History page. In addition, I was impressed by the fact that Smith also listed a separate Architecture section on the home page of the Art Department.</p>
<p>English: A tougher call by far. Of course, since Smith is bigger (influences the above as well) it has a larger faculty. But more separates the two.</p>
<p>Smith – Pros: Vital, innovative, many courses. Cons: Not enough grounded in survey courses, period courses and the nuts and bolts of the discipline.</p>
<p>And Wellesley seems just the opposite.</p>
<p>Wellesley – Pros: Very well organized department. Covers all relevant periods and genres. Nothing will fall through the cracks. A very intelligently laid out program. Cons: Not as exciting or contemporary.</p>
<p>A good way to judge (to the OP) is to read the course descriptions. See which pedagogy interests you and what your goals are. Grad school? Wellesley may have the edge. Just learning and then on to a different career? Smith may have the edge.</p>
<p>Notice I say may.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Anyone can do this. It’s easy to compare departments at two schools. For example when my S was looking we discovered that Vassars Classics Department was actually more conservative than Williams, something we wouldn’t have predicted. Same with the music departments. </p>
<p>Since educational institutions are being chosen, reading course catalogues is a great way to help in these decisions.</p>
<p>Very interesting. Thanks for the analysis. Since you’re the expert, if you can say off the top of your head, what are the survey courses and period courses that are lacking at Smith? It would be useful to know.</p>