Smith vs. MHC vs. BMC vs. Wellesley vs. Barnard <1 Paragraph

College Search & Selection
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<p>Thanks, momneeds2no! I will check these out. I had always thought of these schools as liberal arts focused. Only recently with the STEM push, have been wondering if that has changed. </p>

<p>It seems that whenever I ask about a college for my daughter and state her interests - Political Science, writing. literature and communications, we are told that such and such college has great STEM. </p>

<p>Confused. She is taking AP Calc. and AP Physics in order to qualify for an honors diploma. She is doing well in both classes (As) but really has no desire to revisit these subjects in a substantial way in college. </p>

<p>She wants to explore her interests more deeply. </p>

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<p>LuxLake – by definition, almost any liberal arts college is going to be strong in humanities and social sciences. The reason you see a lot of p.r. material about STEM is that those colleges want to attract more of those students, so they target outreach to that group. And I think the reason that you are always hearing stuff that you don’t want to hear come from the way you frame the question. You asked which colleges are “Least STEM oriented.?” and @photodad said that the schools were multifaceted (i.e, Smith has a full STEM program … but these schools all have strong humanities programs as well."</p>

<p>How does one answer your “least” question without making some comment about the relative strength of the characteristics you are asking about? If you don’t want to know about STEM programs… don’t ask about them.</p>

<p>I think you are asking the wrong question anyway. I don’t think your daughter will be harmed in any way if her roommate is a chemistry major. Colleges with good STEM programs attract smart students - so why try to avoid them? I mean, I could understand if a parent showed up to CC and asked what the environment would be for a student who wants to follow a non-STEM major at MIT or Johns Hopkins … but it’s kind of an odd question to ask about an LAC.</p>

<p>I think the question you might want to ask is which colleges might allow your daughter to avoid taking math and science altogether? For example, Barnard has strong distribution requirements and requires students to take a math course and a full year of a lab science – whereas I believe Smith has a totally open curriculum, so students can take whatever they want. As a parent, I don’t think the distribution requirements are a bad thing-- but of course your daughter can make that decision for herself. If her goal is to never to have to take any math and science courses again… then it would make sense to check out general education requirements at all colleges being considered, as well as the specific requirements for the majors she is interested in. (For example, I think that poli sci majors should take statistics – but I don’t know whether any schools explicitly require that – my daughter took stats to fulfill the genera quantitative reasoning requirement.)</p>

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<p>Actually Calmon, I think the schools are “pushing STEM” as part of the “marketing campaign”. It seems to be pretty common mainstream belief that unless your degree is techno-focused you can’t land a job after graduation. With all media hoopla fabricated by the “anti-college-crowd”, LACs are fighting against the “four years of basket weaving” myth. </p>

<p>All colleges embark on heavily organized pitches. After-all they are “selling” a $250,000 product–intangible product no less. The STEM push is just other feature on the menu like internships and “career centers”. Not all parents understand the value of a broad LA education. STEM gives dad comfort that when daughter regains her whits and decides to apply to aero-space or med school, she’ll be well prepared. </p>

<p>LUX, Based upon the undertones of current admissions presentations (and what the presenters are trained to highlight), I understand why you are asking these questions. To truly tell what direction a school is heading you would need to look at the individual department budgets. Other than that, you just need to keeping asking questions. </p>

<p>PS. I wonder if WCs are capitalizing on the recent title IX, rape scandals? Seems like an edge over the top tier competitors. </p>

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<p>And Lux, Try to arrange for your D to sit in on some poly sci classes when she visits. Her impressions will be more worth while then the second hand opinions of other parents (like me). Good Luck!!</p>

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<p>Hi again!</p>

<p>Thanks for all the great feedback! </p>

<p>Could anyone go more in depth comparing Wellesley and Barnard? I think those are my top two schools, and I would love to hear from those with information on them. </p>

<p>What makes each special?
What is similar between them?
How do the typical students at each school differ?
What are their “vibes” and how are their vibes different?
Personal anecdotes and experiences???</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

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<p>I think there are lots of characterizations of the students and the schools - both in this thread and others.
Our experience with visits and knowing girls who have attended these schools is pretty well aligned with the consensus reports so you have to decide what environment works for you.
Wellesley is an absolutely gorgeous and very high strung campus for lack of a better word on my part. From the admissions staff to the students, there is polish, presentation and a palpable energy and ambition. There’s the ‘Wendy Wellesley’ cliche which is a preppy, highly driven, overextended woman who is going to do things and go places. The students are friendly, but we heard complaints about girls who wouldn’t share notes or otherwise help out a classmate. The ‘big/little’ sister tradition is very robust and it seems like these relationships can last way beyond the college years. Wellesley girls as with the vast majority of women’s college alums love their school and maintain strong networks. One of our tour guides (during a summer tour) told us she was hungover, which was a little odd. On that same visit, we had an unfortunate encounter with a strange man entering our car and a Wellesley security guard who told us the campus was not safe - she chastised us for leaving our car unlocked in the admissions parking lot and said ‘people from town walk onto campus all the time’ but she didn’t seem concerned to address the fanny pack man who had been in our car though he lurked in the trees while she counseled us. It was not encouraging and might have been the deal breaker for Wellesley for that D.
Barnard students are mature and sophisticated – they want to be in NYC. Also energetic but in a different way from Wellesley women. There seems to be less of an edge to their ambition. Imagine how different your college experience would be spending most of your time on a traditional campus vs being right in the middle of New York. Obviously neither is objectively preferable but they are very different! The Barnard dorms are a little smaller and worse for wear last time I saw them (year and a half ago-ish) , but Barnard students are busy taking advantage of all the offerings of the combined colleges and the throbbing metropolis of NYC ;;). Pretty sure there is a combined course catalog with Columbia now – IOW taking a class at Columbia is a straightforward registration process, rather than cross registration. Both Wellesley and Barnard students have a pre-professional attitude. Seems like a visit and a gut reaction might make this decision for you pretty quickly. </p>

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<p>@elli1234 - there are going to be very few people who have in-depth knowledge of both campuses – you’ll get people’s tour impressions, but because both are undergraduate LAC’s, its pretty rare to find a student who has actually attended both schools --though perhaps there may be some people on CC who have taught at both, and come by their knowledge that way. Otherwise I think that the reason you don’t get he responses you are looking for from your inquiries is that you are asking a question no one can really answer, beyond sharing broad stereotypes or generalities about the schools. </p>

<p>Think urban vs. suburban-- visit both if you have an opportunity – and use other sources of information about each school and then draw your own conclusions to make a comparison. There is no “typical” student at Barnard and probably none at Wellesley either – both campuses attract women with a broad range of interests and backgrounds. </p>

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<p>@momneedsoknow she is visiting MHC on </p>

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<p>Ooops! OK, old post. We are still on our tour of Eastern colleges. D visited MHC this morning. She was not enthusiastic about the visit this morning. Now, some nine ours later, she has decided to apply.
And, MHC is one of her favorite colleges. I can thank my wife for pushing her to visit, and several enthusiastic CC members for peaking my interest. </p>

<p>What D liked best about MHC were some factors that separate MHC from he other sisters. I’ll enumerate hem here - </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Proximity to co-educational schools via the Five College Consortium. Our our guide was currently enrolled in two classes at UMass. </p></li>
<li><p>She met other students who were applying exclusively to co-ed colleges and were, a first, unsure of he single gender environment, yet were including MHC in their applications.
She me studious young women who also desired a social life. </p></li>
<li><p>A rigorous yet supportive academic environment.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Other factors that won us all over were the sheer number of classes available to students on an given semester.
The beauty of the campus and he accessibly of the surrounding town were a great asset. </p>

<p>We were fortunate to meet another family, with whom we had lunch. The had visited Smith, and their D was put off by the large amount of GLBTQ students. This girl was a liberal arts/ social science type, as is our daughter. Their impression was that Smith was too GLBTQ and “STEMY”. </p>

<p>This does not mean that our daughters are in any way “anti gay”. </p>

<p>The event that won D over was an interview where she learned directly from a student interviewer of the empowerment that her education at MHC has provided. This enthusiasm coupled with the opportunities presened b MHC and he consortium has earned MHC an imporan place on our daughter’s list. </p>

<p>In comparison to m wife’s niece, who personifies “Wendy Wellesley”. MHC did by contrast, did no have such a pressure cooker environment. </p>

<p>Well, I am a man of my word. I promised that if D liked it, and we liked it, that I would report back. </p>

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<p>Glad to hear that report! Note that you visited during October Break, so many students (including my D) were not there. So if she thought the campus seemed a bit “quiet” that would explain why :)</p>

<p>Also interesting comparison with Smith. My D and I had some really interesting conversations about how her perceptions about MHC, Smith, and college life in general have changed now that she’s actually there, versus what she felt last year. She did comment that she got a strong feeling that Smith was more uptight and in-your-face about LGBTQ issues (especially) and other social justice issues. She had a term for it that I cannot recall. But this is coming from a kid who is VERY VERY liberal and very outspoken about all that stuff, and strongly supports LGBTQ rights, etc… but she said she loves how MHC is just more laid back about it all, in general. She felt like MHC students could be passionate about these things yet still laugh at themselves (e.g. a “sexual orientation of the week” blog that pokes fun at the gazillion terms) whereas at Smith it seemed much more deadly serious.</p>

<p>And after hearing her talk about her life there, I think point #3 is also very true. D says students study/do homework about 6-10 hours per day, but they often study together and are very supportive of each other’s studying. She knows only one girl who does not take her academics INCREDIBLY seriously.</p>

<p>Good luck with the rest of your tour! It’s a lovely weekend to be in that area. </p>

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<p>The difference that you mention, is exactly what would turn off my daughter - angry passion that is devoid of humor.My D has is empathetic and supportive of the GLBTQ community, as well as issues such as racism and gender oppression. However, she can laugh about anything, including her Korean ancestry and her general “distaste for math, physics and kim chee” a quote. She also sometimes finds terms such as (hope I get this right) “cis-gendered”, to be a little silly, yet understands the reasons for their existence. </p>

<p>We did notice a few lesbian couples on campus, but no more than we noticed at the other colleges that we visited. It was October Break at all colleges. but Bennington.(we went a day later) I’m sure Hampshire College is a good school, but she really did not like the campus, and opted out of the interview and tour. </p>

<p>She left the interview extremely, excited and encouraged. MHC indeed does look at her rather drastic upward trend. In the information session, they were very passionate about their status as a test optional school. Their reasons went beyond the usual arguments that students of lower SES groups as well as first generation students, tend not to do well. </p>

<p>They freely discussed applicants whose only EC was “test prep” - this drew laughter from many of us. They also touched upon the fact that after taking the test many times, and receiving preparation, scores will naturally increase, however that might not be reflective of one’s ability to achieve in college. I think they are on to something here. </p>

<p>We were told to send SAT/ACT scores only if they were reflective of her ability, and that no students were penalized for withholding these test scores. </p>

<p>MHC was very helpful in clearly outlining the factors that they <em>do</em> consider important. </p>

<p>We liked MHC’s interjection of humor and relatively earthy, yet passionate personality… The group of students on the tour were rather motley - in a good way. </p>

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<p>Your last sentence EXACTLY sums up why my D loves MHC! </p>

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<p>@elli1234‌ I know one girl at Wellesley with the intent of going on to medical school who is generally happy, but is feeling the pressure of grade deflation and competitiveness. </p>

<p>For example, she is fulfilling some of her math requirements at MIT to help bolster her GPA. Apparently a 90 at MIT equates to 4.0, whereas at Wellesley you must score higher than a 90 to obtain the 4.0, and she says the MIT classes are generally easier. I found that a bit surprising.</p>

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<p>@arwarw‌ the same can be said of Bryn Mawr/UPenn. It’s common knowledge that Penn classes are “easier” than those offered at Bryn Mawr. I’ve heard other students say this, but it was also my experience that a 3.7 at Bryn Mawr equated a 4.0 at Penn.</p>

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<p>@ stacyetneil D wants to revisit during a time when more students are on campus. I’m not sure that an overnight is open to students who have not yet been accepted. </p>

<p>MHC seems to be the sister that is diverse, loves learning for it’s own sake,and where it is OK to be open about your interest in the opposite sex, and the desire for a social life. </p>

<p>From Wellesley cousin, we have noticed that she and her friends are “hyper preppy” and wealthy… She was raised in NYC and once dressed in a lot of black thrift store clothes. Now, her clothes seem more conservative. Her communication with my daughter seems to reflect a state of constant stress. to the point of pain. Yet, she says that she loves it. We this that she and my SIL love the name. </p>

<p>All of her friends look alike - a preponderance of preppy, posed pictures of of blonde WASPY women with rather forced and intense smiles. (please do not take offence, my wife is from this background and she is a very brainy blonde)</p>

<p>Just a few more observations. </p>

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<p>Oh please! Your description could just as easily apply to Smithies. My wife, daughter and many friends (young and old) are Smith alumna, so I know of what I speak. :wink: Fwiw, the vast majority of Smithies are straight, and it’s not unusual for a student have their boyfriend spend the night in the dorm. But I will grant the fact that there can be an ‘edge’ to some Smithies whereas MHC women are more buttoned-down. </p>

<p>I very much like and admire the MHC alumnae I know. The campus is much nicer and more beautiful than Smith as well. My youngest daughter is the namesake of a MHC alumna. We tried desperately to convince her to apply. Too close to home :(</p>

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<p>Self-selection. I’ve been on the Wellesley campus on numerous occasions and from time to time I have lunch at MHC. I’ve not noticed any significant difference in outward appearance of the students.</p>

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<p>This was my D’s experience–she took two classes at UPenn. Her roommate who also took several classes and said the same thing. </p>

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<p>Yes. Self selection is a par of it. Wellesley and Smith are no as diverse as MHC.
MoHo attracts a friendlier, brainy, many of whom would also be happy in a co-educaional environment. I do not see tha at WC or SC. </p>

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<p>Just wondering where the Bryn Mawr student fall in this regard. My D is thinking about BMC and I’d appreciate any input. We visited WC also and it was beautiful but the students did seem a bit more stressed (but hard to make any real comparison since we were only there for a few hours). </p>

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<p>@Luxlake Your D should definitely do an overnight or at the very least another visit and sit in on some classes at MHC. You can definitely do that before acceptance, my D did!</p>