Smith vs Williams, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Carleton, Vassar?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
1

<p>I'm new on this website, and my senior daughter is sorting out the ways in which Smith is different from Williams, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Vassar & Carleton.</p>

<p>She loved Smith when she visited---felt immediately at home & could see herself being at Smith. She also liked the other schools for various reasons, but feels somewhat overwhelmed at where she would best fit. She's my first college-bound child & I am also somewhat overwhelmed by the options.</p>

<p>She's interested in math, science & studio art. She's an introverted, creative, intellectually-curious, bright student who loves stimulating classroom discussions (vs lectures) & tends more toward the quiet side with friends. Strong thinker. Gets lost in books. Not proactive or an outgoing "mover & shaker". Top of her class, brilliant, humble, unassuming, cheerful person. Very quiet outside the classroom.</p>

<p>She prefers a co-ed liberal arts school but is open to Smith, if it's a good fit for her in other ways. </p>

<p>She thrives with classroom discussions with other engaged, intellectually-gifted students.</p>

<p>Any thoughts on where she would best fit academically & socially? Thanks for your help</p>

2

<p>So she’s a senior who has applied to all of these schools and is awaiting decisions? If that’s the case, you should repost this in two or three weeks when she knows what her options are. As you’re well aware, these are all very competitive schools.</p>

3

<p>I agree with arcadia, it is not clear – did she get into all of the schools you have named? Is financal aid a consideration? If so, has she received packages? </p>

<p>Maybe you are fortunate enough to have gotten word from all these schools…If she got into Smith and loves Smith, and if you cana fford it, why wouldn’t she just go for her number one?</p>

4

<p>you should probably wait until decisions are released in the next two weeks, lest your daughter should make a preemptive choice and be crushed if she is rejected. those are all very difficult schools to get into, and are all very good; whichever one she chooses will be excellent.</p>

5

<p>My D is very similar in character and interests to your daughter! However, she liked Wellesley better than Smith. She has recieved a “likely” from Wellesley and is waiting to hear from Bowdoin and Vassar. Vassar has a more “hipster” vibe than Wellesley/Smith and Bowdoin has a more “jock” vibe. My daughter was also admitted to Grinnell (which she liked better than Carleton). </p>

<p>I think Wellesley or Grinnell would be the best fit for my daughter’s personality, but Vassar has great studio arts programs and Bowdoin is just a great school. I know she can’t go wrong with any of these schools so I’m going to let her go with her gut feeling. We may visit several of the colleges again on admit days to help make a final decision.</p>

6

<p>Thank you very much for your input. </p>

<p>Your advice to wait until she actually knows which colleges accept her makes a great deal of sense.</p>

<p>She’s a senior and will hear in the next 10 days or so from all of these schools, and will hopefully have several schools as options.</p>

<p>ChicagoFire, interesting how similar our daughters seem, and their similar interests in schools. And, I do think revisiting schools on Admit day will help quite a bit.</p>

<p>Thanks for the solid, good advice.</p>

7

<p>Mine finally chose between Smith and Williams (where she was heavily recruited), and chose Smith because 1) Smith was academically superior in her areas of interest; and 2) She couldn’t see herself in the hyper-alcohol-infused environment (which she witnessed firsthand.) Financial aid was about the same. Northampton was a bonus she hadn’t really thought about it advance.</p>

<p>She visited Wellesley, but didn’t apply.</p>

8

<p>Mini, do you happen to know what areas that Smith is academically superior to Williams in? </p>

<p>Both schools seem to emphasize classroom discussion (vs. lectures), which is a strong preference for my daughter.</p>

<p>Williams and Smith seemed equally superior in studio art, math and science. </p>

<p>Do you think that Smith is more-or-less as intellectually-stimulating and academically strong as Williams and Carleton? </p>

<p>Within minutes of being on the Smith campus, my husband, daughter and I all felt that she would “fit” socially and enjoy being a Smithie. </p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

9

<p>Mind you, my d. graduated in 2008. Smith is much, much stronger in languages than Williams (my d. was a double major in music/Italian studies), and in music, especially as the music offerings were significantly supplemented by the Five College offerings (the majority of which were offered on the Smith campus.) (I’m a Williams alum; in languages, I doubt Williams would even break the top 30 in languages. Williams students in Italian wouldn’t have enough credits to even apply to the Smith study abroad program in Italian. And the electives in most languages at Williams are very slim pickings.)</p>

<p>I’ve never heard anyone argue that Smith lacks intellectual rigor (when I’ve heard complaints, it has been the opposite.) My d. visited Williams three times. She felt that women participated in classroom discussions much less than men, and, in her last visit (a Thursday night), whatever intellectual discussion there may have been gave way to alcohol consumption. That may or may not be typical. I know many students at Williams who love it.</p>

<p>Williams is very well-known for its math department. Unfortunately, its biggest star - Ed Burger - has just been named President of Southwestern University. I expect that overall there are more science resources at Smith, with more NSF funding for research (and the STRIDE program).</p>

10

<p>Thanks, Mini. Very helpful. </p>

<p>Do you happen to know how Studio Art is at Smith these days? Read on the forum last night that it was hard to get into Studio Art classes.</p>

<p>Do most of Smith’s science programs seem strong? I’ll do some more reading and looking at their course offerings.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

11

<p>hi Lucia, I thought I would chime in as my daughter is a Smith sophomore this year, having transferred from a coed LAC (similar to one of those your D is also considering), and she is majoring in a science at Smith (deciding between chem, bio or biochem right now). </p>

<p>Her experience her freshman year at the other school is similar to mini’s D impression on her Williams visits (although it was not Williams my daughter attended). She found the drinking way out of control and was surprised that she was one of the more academically focused on campus (she’s also an athlete). She was disheartened at the sometimes subtle (sometimes not) sexism, but that was just her experience, and I’m sure may not speak to her original college as a whole. But in contrast, she feels so much more relaxed in her Smith classes, and she has matured beyond belief this year; I attribute much of that to the unique all-women’s experience.</p>

<p>She feels the sciences at Smith are exceptional, and not easy. She feels like there are so many classes she wants to take, she may not have time to sample them all in her 3 remaining years (well, two now). Compared to last year at her first college, the professors are really top-notch, and very approachable. </p>

<p>Everyone at Smith is focused on academics, not just some of the students, and she loves it. She is really being challenged, and for someone I couldn’t even get to visit an all-women’s college during her junior/senior high school years, she is over-the-moon happy at Smith. </p>

<p>She found Smith on her own while exploring transfer options, and like your daughter, she felt like she “fit” immediately the first time she walked onto campus. Interestingly, I was not as in love with it as she was, which just goes to show how this really comes down to your own kid’s gut/instinct… my D never did feel that “this is the right place” feeling when she visited colleges during high school. Like mini’s D, she also visited Wellesley but did not apply.</p>

<p>I must mention the house system, which I think is a huge part of the cohesiveness of Smith. The transition to college is tough, and the way the house system works (I won’t reiterate here what you can read about it on the website) is such a wonderful way to make Smith one big community, from freshmen through seniors all sharing a house. It’s like a built in sorority without all the drama. She has made some amazing friendships this year, even as a transfer student. </p>

<p>I can’t speak to the studio art program(s), although my D loves art and I know is hoping to squeeze in at least one class before she departs… again, there are plenty of choices (at least for a non-major). The 5-college consortium is another huge Smith bonus, and the one or two classes that my D can’t find at Smith that interest her (or don’t fit into her schedule for whatever reason) she will have no problem fulfilling at one of the other colleges.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

12

<p>Absolutely spoke to my concern about my daughter being with other intellectually-engaged students who are excited about learning. Glad classes are challenging, too.</p>

<p>My daughter and I both loved the house system—it was part of the draw for my daughter who could imagine herself there.</p>

<p>Thanks, Rocky22, for taking the time to write such helpful information.</p>

13

<p>My daughter is similar too. She applied to Carleton and others not on your list. Looking forward to some more decisions, then the hard part starts. Already have yesses from St Olaf and CWRU.</p>

<p>We visited Carleton last spring, but they were on spring breaks so did not get the full treatment…</p>

<p>Looking forward to comparing notes.
Jim</p>

14

<p>My personal view is there is likely to be more intellectual stimulation when students are actually choosing the courses they wish to be in. Others may disagree, but I find the Williams distribution requirements so “high school”. The reality is that most students at Smith end up with at least as much breadth in class choices as those at Williams, with those who don’t more likely to complete rigorous double major. So much of the first two years at schools with heavy distribution requirements is made up with having to meet them. It is true that having such requirements may open up an area of study that a student may not have considered otherwise; but it could also have the opposite effect.</p>

15

<p>Texas, Would love to compare notes during the upcoming month. </p>

<p>Mini, Agree that the Smith system encourages a high level of engagement & excitement about learning since the students really want to be in the classes they choose. Works better for my daughter, too.</p>

<p>Does Smith accept AP credits, or use the AP credits to advance the students into a higher level of study? Daughter is trying to decide whether to sign up for the AP tests this year.</p>

<p>Appreciate all of the helpful comments–Thanks.</p>

16

<p>Texas, Would love to compare notes during the upcoming month. Good Luck to your daughter. </p>

<p>Mini, Agree that the Smith system encourages a high level of engagement & excitement about learning since the students really want to be in the classes they choose. Works better for my daughter, too. </p>

<p>Does Smith accept AP credits, or use the AP credits to advance the students into a higher level of study?</p>

17

<p>The other thing that I would note as a difference is that even Williams students who love it tend to say that quality of advising is pretty low, or rarely there. That’s actually fine for students who always have their act together. But that’s a far cry from what you’ll find at Smith (or at least used to); at times, I think my d. might have felt there was too much!</p>

<p>As I remember, APs varied by department. Maybe a current student would know.</p>

18

<p>I was fascinated by how similar your daughter seems to ours. She has been admitted to Middlebury, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Wellesley,Carleton, Bates, and Haverford. She too is introverted outside the classroom, very much a math and science girl and just a nice kid who dismissed the Amherst, Williams visits as being too much focus on jocks and partying. So now how to choose? It doesn’t seem like there is a bad choice among them, what factors are most important? We are in a quandary.</p>

19

<p>Wow and congratulations, that’s a great set of choices Dad3400. Heres a couple of thread hijacking ideas. Doubt that the academic distinctions matter much at the undergrad level but the first thing is to look at the programs shes interested in. Does she want a coed vs single sex school? Middlebury and Bates will be more like Amherst and Williams. Haverford is a bit smaller than the others and was too small for my daughter to consider. What about geography? Carleton is quite distinct from the other all NE schools on your list. Bates is in an a somewhat depressed former mill town and carries the rep of town-gown issues- I only know this by hearsay, others know better. Haverford and Wellesley are in the suburbs, Middlebury is fairly isolated but beautiful.</p>

20

<p>I think Smith is the only open curriculum school of the bunch (but I haven’t looked them up.)</p>

<p>Please remember that the women’s colleges are not liberal arts colleges that happen to be all women. They are women’s colleges that teach the liberal arts. It’s actually a big difference, where all the resources and thinking at the college are directed at women, and how women lives are constructed, and how women can succeed. There are resources on women and financial planning and financial independence, women in the sciences, women in underrepresented occupations (like engineering management, and all-women alumnae networks where women look out for each other.</p>