<p>yeah, so my school has a really poor language department (except Latin, which my parents disprove of), and I already had a bunch of core courses the science program I'm in forces me to take, so I decide to quit languages after doing 2 years of middle school Latin, 1 year of middle school Spanish, and 1 year of high school Spanish. Unfortunately, I'm a junior now, still with no language course, and I'm finding out a lot of colleges won't even let you apply without languages. </p>
<p>I'm actually rather interested in other cultures, and consider myself a worldly person. I listen to NPR daily, watch the news, and read the New Yorker and the Economist. I'm also partially fluent in my parents' native language and I'm planning to do a full summer abroad in 2008 in a foreign country. But I guess without a language course on my schedule, this all means nothing. </p>
<p>My last resort is self-studying spanish 3-5 (yikes), getting a tutor, and taking the AP exam, and hoping I get a 4 or 5. But I really don't want to have to do this. Do you think explaining the above circumstances to admins will be good enough, or am I in deep ****ake mushrooms without that AP grade?</p>
<p>You don't have to have the AP, but it's usually required to have...2 years of a foreign language, I believe. People debate about this being two years spanning middle and high school, or if it's two years in high school.</p>
<p>The circumstances you describe really don't sound very valid; you are worldly and listen to NPR and have a crummy language dept so you should be given a break from the language requirement?
The scheduling issue might work however. Don't mention the rest of it.
And as URichmond said, see if the courses you already have covers it. What schools are you looking at?</p>
<p>Even if your scheduling doesn't work, you should be self-studying to the language requirement. IMHO, the other things you listed won't make up for not having that structured language course. You should be doing a structured self-studying, with the school's approval, which means you won't have to worry about the AP. </p>
<p>Will Latin fit in your schedule? Latin can save you on the SAT vocab and really exands one's vocab in general.</p>
<p>I second the suggestion that you add Latin to your schedule for at least 1 year.[why would your parents disapprove???] It gives you a big boost in many areas! Also, because not many students take Latin, it will help set you apart on you applications!</p>
<p>princess, face reality, you need at least two, preferably three years of language study to get accepted to a selective or reasonably selective college. If you're aiming for the most selective you need fluency. </p>
<p>After you get in, many colleges have proficiency requirements. If you can't test to a certain level, you'll end up taking language in college which, if you are language-adverse, could be torturous.</p>
<p>If your parents' language is taught at the college you end up at you may luck out. If not, you'll have to start at square one. Same goes for the language spoken in the foreign country where you will spend the summer -- assuming it's different from your family's language. If you achieve fluency, then you may be able to compensate for lack of formal study by the fact that you actually have acquired conversation fluency in two languages plus a good deal of cultural exposure. This strategy would be risky, however, and would depend on the individual college.</p>
<p>(I speak from experience here. We live overseas and my son is fluent in a language that is spoken by some 300 million people but is taught at few colleges. He ended up suffering through two years each of two languages in which he had little interest. This strategy didn't hurt him in admissions, but he also chose a college with NO language requirement once matriculated.) </p>
<p>So, bite the bullet and either take Spanish or Latin junior AND senior year. Personally, I'd suggest Latin and I have no idea why your parents could object. Most parents would be ecstatic if their child showed an interest in classical learning and colleges do as well.</p>
<p>I totally agree with momrath. 4 years of Latin will really give you a boost on your applications! Without 4 years of a language you might as well not apply to most selective colleges, because the students you are competing against will have taken 4 years of Language.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I'm a junior, right now I'm taking 8 classes with no lunch...adding another class is not an option, which is why I said taking the AP was my last resort.</p></li>
<li><p>I haven't taken Latin since MS, and although I could probably get into Latin 2, that would be senior year, still not enough. I know the benefits of Latin- I took it for two years and my teachers gave me every reason in the book for why Latin helps. My parents are into the whole 'Latin is a dead language' bs. I wanted to take it freshman year, but they forced me into spanish. I'm sure many people with ethnic parents can understand their limited mindset.</p></li>
<li><p>The NPR etc thing was sort of a joke. I'm just wondering why they require a language, and my theory is because they want you to be worldly and well rounded. They're pretty crap excuses- I would never tell an adcom those things.</p></li>
<li><p>My parents speak an indigenous African language. So, uh, not on the SAT II :)</p></li>
<li><p>At my school, you can take whatever AP tests you want as long as you pay the $15 fee. My school is very strict in regards to transfer credits, so if I do self study Spanish, they won't count that as a language credit on my transcript, but if I send my AP Spanish test scores to the colleges I apply to, they'll know that I obviously have a proficiency in Spanish that I learned somehow.</p></li>
<li><p>However, many people who I've known that have gone to foreign countries have gained natural fluency just by being there and essentially being forced to learn the language. So say I go to Italy next summer and become fluent. I won't have time to take the AP Italian exam or whatever to prove it, but I do have the skills. Will colleges understand this?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>It's just something I've seen in various forums, and many of the brochures I've recieved say something to the effect of "we prefer 4 years of a language" "99.9% of our incoming class had 4 years of a language" and other things like that. So I guess it's more of an implied thing than an outright thing at most schools, but I do believe some schools say it outright.</p>
<p>I have discovered that the language requirement might be the most flexible of all requirements. I have a son, who while brilliant at math and science, is pretty useless at langages. We sort of gave up on them after 9th grade (we homeschool). Some of the schools my son is applying to do not have a language requirement - caltech and mit. I have contacted others, and they seem to be ok with it, as long as you show that you were not just taking the time off, but using the time to work on subjects you do well. </p>
<p>I was talking to someone from Princeton and they said it would be ok, but he would need to make it up at Princeton. I asked them what that meant, and she laughed and said "well, he would have to take a year..."</p>
<p>BTW, another option to show proficiency, if you go somewhere for the summer, is to take the SATII in the fall before applications are due.</p>
<p>At many (I'd even say most) colleges requirements for admissions are flexible. This goes for languages, science, math -- just about any recommended course load. If you can offer something else to compensate you can often ignore the standard recommendeds. </p>
<p>My son, for example, didn't take any math or science senior year (and would have lost the language as well, except for the IB requirements). Because he had strengths and talents in other areas this deficiency wasn't a liability.</p>
<p>Now here comes the caveat: Be aware, however, that this strategy is extremely risky and does require some finessing on your part. </p>
<p>Princess, your background sounds unique and I'm sure it will be of interest to many colleges; however, you need to be aware that any deviation from standard comes with risk and you'll have to do a good job of explaining on your application why you made the choices that you did.</p>
<p>Language proficiency once you are actually in college is another matter altogether. Some colleges use AP or IB scores as a criteria; some make you take a proficiency exam; some have no requirement at all.</p>
<p>It is also my impression that the language requirement is flexible. Either you have it in high school (the intermediate level) or you satisfy it at your college. And as was stated, many otherwise rigorous schools don't even have a language requirement, let alone mandating fluency.</p>
<p>First, if your M/S spanish class was a HS equivalent, then it would count. So, if you took Span 1 in middle school and Span 2 in HS, you have two years of language for admission purposes. Even if you don't note the middle school class, adcoms will see Span 2 Frosh year and assume you had Span 1 in middle school, which is quite common -- no different than taking Alg 1 in middle school.</p>
<p>Yes, most highly selective colleges prefer THREE years of foreign language, if not four. </p>
<p>btw: assuming you can get fluent in a new language over the summer -- fuhgheditaboutit. Not likely to happen. You'd be better off attending an intensive summer school program at a college somewhere.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the help guys. I still don't know what to do, but at least I have a few more ideas about what to do and now I know I can at least still apply most places. If a school wants to reject me because I don't have 1 extra year of a crappy spanish class, well, I don't want to attend anyway! (well, unless it's Yale :))</p>
<p>I guess I didn't really explain this fully, but I'm in a special science program at my school, and we only get 2 or 3 electives instead of the usual 3 or 4. I used up one on AP Chem because we need 3 advanced science credits, and the other two on Drama 3 and Newspaper because I'm a editor this year and looking to be editor in chief next year, and Drama because I'm an avid actor and I thought taking a Drama course would be a good way to show that this is both an academic and extra-curricular passion. And I have no lunch 1st semester due to a stupid PE graduation requirement. So I'm not taking pottery or home ec (no offense to those classes) instead of a language, but I'm actually trying to fufill my school's idiotic requirements while also pursing my two passions- writing and acting. </p>
<p>I'm not sure if telling an admin that would work, but it's the truth.</p>
<p>It sounds like you are on a track for the language study recommendation (which you have fulfilled in part) being waived. In your case, I would mention your family's use of a language that is not part of external testing programs, as that will show you have language learning experience (learning that language, or learning English, as the case may be) and a multicultural background.</p>
<p>I don't mean to hijack the thread, but what if taking a language is in conflict with your schedule? I'm adamant about taking AP Physics (there's only one class), but it means that I'll have to cut out Spanish IV. I'm instead trying to take AP Psych (which fits). Is that understandable?</p>
<p>Sure, Just make sure your college counselor explains the reason you were unable to take Spanish 4 somewhere in his letter of recommendation to the colleges. Scheduling conflicts happen, and admissions committees know this.</p>