<p>"soo, are we losing the war in Iraq?"</p>
<p>My country is not fighting a war in Iraq, I'm not an American citizen.</p>
<p>however, my step-father, who's a Caucasian American, believes that "we" are losing... I don't know, i just don't want the economy to get hurt, BECAUSE I WANT A JOB AFTER COLLEGE!!!!</p>
<p>"*there is no reason to FORCE women to cover themselves up, but if they that's what they believe in so let it be, just like other religiouns have their wierd habbits."</p>
<p>Sorry dude, but I dont think there is nothing wrong with than. Just look at America, all that sex and obscenity, divorce rates, people having sex before 18, abortion, homosexuality, and becoming parents at young gaes without marriage, AIDs, and poor family life. The Arabs (and Jews) are stickly conservative, religious people and dont want do deal with all these immoralities sprawling American society.</p>
<p>primitivefuture, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that traditions such as women covering themselves us will prevent "immoralities" such as abortion, sex before marriage, and divorce?</p>
<p>I won't even discuss your perceived "immoralities".</p>
<p>DanC, I didn't say that the problem with some Middle Eastern countries is that they force women to live in degrading and harsh conditions. This example was meant to illustrate the efforts Middle Eastern countries are making to separate themselves from the modern world and their refusal to integrate their beliefs with the conditions and lifestyles of modern society.</p>
<p>your example in the US doesn't count since you gave an example of a specific crazy person. can you even compare the volume and frequency of Islam terrorism to that of others? btw, the basque in spain usually give notice before they explode something so no one would get hert. I don't really know about the Japanease thing, I mean, i've heard of it but not in a while. other than that, you don't see any society in which you have such support for terrorist acts as you see in the arab/muslim world, well, just look at many arab/muslim goverments and their recactions to terrorists actions in some parts of the world - THEY DON'T OBJECT THE ACT OF TERRORISM.
but it's not just the goverments but also the mass demonstrations taking place after major events.</p>
<p>if you truely think that there nothing wrong with muslim society while it's the only one to perduce such mass volume of terrorism and terror orgs then you should really think about again, it's called self denile.</p>
<p>you should realize that many nations were in far worse situation than muslim and didn't turn to terrorism yet chose to fight the army instead of the civilians.</p>
<p>premitive, jews in Israel are far from conservative - most Israelies are secualr, the 3rd largest party in Israel is a party which all its goal is to maintain a secualr Israel and to have a bit more capitalistic economy, the 2nd largest party is known to represent the secular yet more "left-winged" Israelies and the 1st largest (which represents about the same portion as the 2nd one) is basically secular but represents the right wingers. you can safely say that america is way more religous than Israel. Look at the failing, poor, un-modernized, religious and unfree arab world and tell me you want to live like that - women rights in many nations in the arab world almost doesn't exist, in many the husband practically owns his wife, ignorance is quite common (many don't know how to read in some countries), at least in america you can choose to act however you like, there you are forced to. still think it's better as things are in the arab world? from a western POV i think the west way is better.. but you know, live and let live (oh wait, that is basically the way of the west... lol)...</p>
<p>Helix: o.k, I see your point now, sorry for misunderstanding you before :-(
now this is in no way a justification to invade another nation or something, but from POV the fact that thosen nations PREVENT people from acting the way they want (say, if a woman wants to take off the cover from her face?) is wrong, everyone should get to choose, but on the other hand it's non of anyone's business - if this is how they wanna live then let it be. there are to many errors in this world to fix every one of them.</p>
<p>DanC, like I said, many countries have terrorists. In the case of the muslim world, it is more pronounced because you have over 1.2 billion muslims, as opposed to 4 million Irishmen and under 1 million Basques. And DanC, I am many things, but I am not in denial. I am very self-critical of Arabs. But I also know who is to blame. I always admit that terrorists are partly responsible and denounce their crimes. I see you only blaming one party. Perhaps admitting that others are equally guilty would be a good start.</p>
<p>did anyone see "over*there" on Fx last night?</p>
<p>Who cares about Fx? that show was crappy anyways.</p>
<p>I blame two sides but you just don't notice for what i blame each side for:
I can blame two sides for the fact that there is a war between the west and large part of the muslim world, we may argue of who is to blame more but this is another discussion (starting from about 1948).</p>
<p>I don't blame muslims for fighting the west, I DO blame them for choosing terrorism, and I don't think the west is the one responsible for them making that choice, this what I am trying to say about muslim/arab society.</p>
<p>is that better?</p>
<p>what was on fox harry? (fox... ehhh)</p>
<p>FX, not fox. Of course muslims aren't the only terrorists in the world. Every different kind of terrorist has a lot of different motives, but the underlying one is that they were brainwashed. No person in their right mind would kill themselves and tons of others for a cause unless they were brainwashed. Desperation and poverty just makes them more susceptible to the brainwashing and more likely to walk away from their previous lives for the new, terrorist ones.</p>
<p>And good joke, confused.</p>
<p>Wait... I thought Bush was too "stupid" to lie? How can he be so "stupid" but such a great "liar", fooling EVEN liberal geniuses along the way? Therefore either Bush is more intelligent than some liberals, or he never lied to them in the first place... which one is it? I never understood that inconsistancy in the Bush-bashing campaigns... BTW Bush's old "C average at Yale"... it was a 77%... Kerry's was a 75%... but he choose to hide that until after the election ;)...</p>
<p>haha the show was called "over*there" about the iraq war</p>
<p>Alright, the post asked "Are we losing the war in Iraq?"</p>
<p>Yes, we are losing the war in Iraq. </p>
<p>1) Suicide bombings are increasing everyday and they have significantly increased over the past year.</p>
<p>2) We are losing critical support from other nations such as Spain and Italy.</p>
<p>3) The people of nations around the world are becoming less supportive of the effort as they see that their is no clear-cut end to this war.</p>
<p>4) Civilians are being killed by the thousands as Coalition Troops either kill by mistake or kill because they are afraid of certain people being bombers.</p>
<p>5) Though Bush first stated WMDs as his MAJOR reason he quickly turned to stopping TERROR as his next major reason. Well, the war on terror isn't solved by attacking a COUNTRY.</p>
<p>As many have stated, it's an IDEOLOGY which needs to be challenged not through physical strength, but through mental and social strength.</p>
<p>Now, aside from this thread, my theory for terrorism is as follows:</p>
<p>1) Not all terrorists are Muslims (as DanC1986 stupidly says ).</p>
<p>2) All terrorism taken in the name of Islam is (nowadays) done as a demand for two things:</p>
<p>a) A free and prosperous Palestine (as there once used to be).</p>
<p>b) The end of US (and its allies) intervention in the Muslim world.</p>
<p>3) If those two goals are met than 99.99% of terrorism in the name of Islam will STOP.</p>
<p>4) Yes, some Islamic schools do teach hatred of the Western world, but I've never heard of them teaching to commit suicide by blowing themselves up.</p>
<p>5) Terrorists were few until some Western speakers started to related their activities DIRECTLY to a religion (When the Oklahoma bombings occurred they were at first blamed on Muslims b y several prominent speakers.) The Western media picked it up and suddenly the world terror became synonymous with Islam. With CNN and BBC broadcasting around the globe a psychological change came about.</p>
<p>It is a psychological principle that when a group of people are repeatedly told that they're something which they're not they will eventually become who they are told to be.</p>
<p>This, in my opinion, was the ultimate key to the suicide bombings and terrorist activities (in the name of Islam) around the world. When the few acts of suicide bombings across Palestine were tied into the Islamic religion other Muslims who were sick of Western occupation and were on the edge decided to JOIN the GROUP.</p>
<p>DanC, the problem began before 1948, with the way the English divided up the Arab World...precisely to weaken and divide the Arabs. </p>
<p>There is a crucial point where you and I disagree. You think that those terrorist devils act the way they do because they are born evil or because Muslims are prone to violence. I believe those terrorists resort to terrorism because they have no other option. They have given up on negotiations because they have been lied to and bullied for too long and they have given up on their religion because it has not gotten them the freedom they seek. Do you honestly think if they could avoid killing themselves and others and get better results, they wouldn't do it. </p>
<p>The terrorists' actions are unacceptable, but then again, so have the actions of their enemies.</p>
<p>WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THAT I CLAIM THEY ARE BORN EVIL!!!!
you make me sound like an ignorant racist.
collegefreak, muslim terrorists make about 99.9% of terrorism, where else do you see terrorism in such way? the basque are different, more moderate, in ages i haven't heard of the japanease thing alex was talking about. any other suggestions? </p>
<p>alex, I disagree the fact that they are doing that "because they have nothing else to live for". why do you keep ignoraing the fact that many of them nevre experienced occupation or aren't poor in any way? if you want an example i can provide a good one (rather not, figure out why) but people who were in THE WORST conditions ever known in history still chose to fight against what was then (not so long ago) the strongest army in the world and didn't turn to fight against the civilians. therefore i find this claim not true (in my opinion).</p>
<p>one more thing that really supports, in my opinion, the fact that muslim society has to do some thinking:
years ago some crazy fanatic right winged Israeli decided to revenge the death of people died in a terror attack in Israel, he took a gun and started shooting at muslims close to a holy place where they pray. 99.9999.....% of the Israelies saw (and still see) him as a notorious criminal who killed without destingtion - a terrorist (so did the israeli goverment treated him). yet when a suicide bomber goes against civlians he is praised and posters of him are hanged on the walls of the cities. don't you see the differnce between the two societies? I think it relys in the fact that generally muslim society doesn't have much FORMAL self-creticism, most of the opposers to extreme regimes are usually in exile, like in Iran, Iraq or such countries - there are no independent demonstrations like one can expect. in other parts of the world people demonstrate about everything, but in the arab/muslim world you have only one voice in the goverment.</p>
<p>I know many arabs and muslims to know that if "people like they" were in power terrorism wouldn't be supported by the goverments. so, no, they aren't born evil, but unfortunately arab/muslim nations are ruled by extremists who rule their society. </p>
<p>VERY IMPORTANT TO READ THAT:
I've heard MANY arab/muslim schoalrs who are against Israel/US/West yet are totally against teorrorism as a way of fightinh - ALL of those scholars always come from places not with in the arab world (US, UK, EU), just read what the every now and then the editorials in the "Al-Shark Al-Awsat" news-paper published in London, they are saying the exact same thing I am saying. the muslim society should unite itself against the way of terrorism regardless of the political goal for which it stands for. the editor recognized that this is a problem with in muslim society.</p>
<p>DanC, you clearly have very little information to go on. I will not waste our time in this pointless debate since you only know very little about what is happening. If you know the truth, you would be disgusted.</p>
<p>did you read my last post?
please comment if you can about what I wrote regarding the muslim society and lack of internal diverstion regarding the question of terror and also about the last paragraph.</p>
<p>I have very little information? i find that insulting, no one knows everything, why is it o.k for me to learn from others (ask mekrob) but not o.k for you to respond to specific claims i asked to you respond to?</p>
<p>please, enlighten me... (seriously)</p>
<p>the basque aren't different and neither is the IRA or the Serbians. In your perverted mind YOU have twisted the definition of terrorism to mean ONLY Muslims. I believe your being from Israel has something to do with that.</p>
<p>Why did Israel go against that one dude who fired on Muslims?</p>
<p>Becuase HE DIDN'T NEED TO. Israel has enough Apache helicopters, missilies, advanced weaponry and all the resources necessary to strike upon the Palestinians. </p>
<p>Palestinians are throwing stones and rocks while Israel forces every person over 18 to recieve military training.</p>
<p>Now you go on rambling about Israel when this post is about the war on Iraq. Like I said we are losing the war. What is your opinion?</p>