<p>everyone's always saying either "oohh it's impossible" or "oh it's not as hard compared to a lot of other schools". i dont know! which is it? anyone have stats?</p>
<p>thanks!!</p>
<p>There are not many colleges and universities more difficult to get into that UVa out of state. Figure that 75th percentile SAT scores for out-of-state are somewhere at or above 1500 (old scale). You can look at the USNEWS selectivity charts and count the number of Universities and colleges in that territory. Maybe a dozen universities and a handful of LACs. Figure that out-of-state, UVA would fall somewhere between Emory and Duke for admissions difficulty.</p>
<p>thanks! i did what you told me to do and yea the new 2007 rankings has UVA in the top 10! omg...</p>
<p>anyone have the acceptance rate for OOS?</p>
<p>
[quote]
anyone have the acceptance rate for OOS?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't. But, the admission rate may be misleading. The yield for out-of-state is very low compared to in-state, because of the obvious price difference. </p>
<p>For the year I saw (1999), they accepted something like 1850 out of state versus something like 2900 in state.</p>
<p>My D is applying to UVA OOS. I have tried numerous times on this venue(CC), on our visit to UVA, and when they visited our area (Houston). I (and others) asked the question nuerous times and in different ways and with varying levels of directness and they ALWAYS avoided the question. UVA will NOT release the mid 50% SAT scores, ave. GPA, etc of OOS applicants. Everything is discussed in generalities; "Ivy League level of difficulties", etc. When questioned about why they won't tell us comments were made suggesting that they don't want people to not apply because they take many people who are below the average scores and basically state that they don't want to decrease their # of applicants by publishing the OOS averages. I find this attempt at intentional misinformation disconcerting and clearly lowers my opinion of the UVA admin. In my mind (maybe not my D's) it pushes UVA a little further down my list than if they told us the numbers regardless of what they are.</p>
<p>yea i agree. i went to an info session in my town and when i asked about the acceptance rates for out of state the guy started laughing and was like "Im sorry, but we are not prone to give out such information" and i was like wow, thanks, that was an insult.</p>
<p>I really like UVA and it's a great school and i'm still going to apply to it but the only reasons why there are several other schools above my list (Tufts, Johns Hopkins, GWU, Boston C) is because they really are unfriendly to anyone non-virginian. also, i've heard from several students that you are sort of "discriminated" socially if you're OOS. she said virginia people like to stick to themselves.</p>
<p>weird if you ask me</p>
<p>I think part of the reason why UVa keeps its OOS numbers undisclosed is because it likes the mystique of its OOS difficulty.</p>
<p>but for some numbers for you - and some anecdotal evidence.</p>
<p>overall acceptance rate for UVa is about 36%</p>
<p>this years freshman class had 88% in the top 10% and the 25-75 SAT was 1280-1490. I would bet most non athlete/urm OOSers were around that 1490 range.</p>
<p>Instate acceptance rate is about 46% and OOS acceptance rate is about 30% (you can find the exact numbers if you do a search at cavdaily.com - there was a pretty detailed admissions profile for the class of '10)</p>
<p>overall yield is about 51% - lower for OOSers - most likely because people who get into UVa OOS also got into higher ranked schools.</p>
<p>for some anecdotal evidence. One of my friends who applied early to UVa for class of '10 got deffered then rejected. she was accepted regular at emory and cornell - i don't know how common this is though.</p>
<p>hope that helps.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info. But it still is one person's opinion and anectdotal evidence about the data. (regardless of how reasonable that one person is-this is not meant to be derogatory) What I get from every other school that we are applying to is hard data. I think the reason is that they don't give us the facts is that it keeps many people applying and thus lowers the acceptance rate and keeps the school a little higher in the rankings. The OOS applicants with less competitive numbers are encouraged to apply by hiding (intentionally) the fact that they are not as competitive as those who are accepted OOS. Certainly worse things have happened to college applicants, but it does make me think less of the administration for their deception by ommission</p>
<p>I do appreciate your analysis as these types of comments are all that I have to go on.</p>
<p>aardvark,</p>
<p>i doubt that UVa doesn't release the numbers to keep admissions numbers up. truth be told UVa receives much fewer applications than a school of its size should. its acceptance rate is only low because it has a relatively high yield. If UVa wished to increase its applications it would simply switch from its ridiculous application to the common application.</p>
<p>in short - you won't find out the average SATs of OOS applicants. even if you did, it wouldn't represent the true OOS applicant - OOS legacies are given instate admissions status - but are counted in the OOS pool. Are their SAT scores included with the non-legacy OOSers or Instaters? How about athletes? UVa has a lot of OOS athletes. Are their stats included? You'll never find a school thats going to give you the average SAT and GPA of the white male non-legacy oos applicants.</p>
<p>regardless, the basic thing to watch for at UVa for an OOS applicant is that if you are white and a non-legacy and you wish to be competitive, you should be closer to the 75% range than the 25% range in SATs and you should be in the top 5% of your class.</p>
<p>im not white (well im half white) and im not a legacy...</p>
<p>Here you all go</p>
<p>It is pretty widely known that UVa is required by state law to keep its out of state undergraduate enrollment below a certain percentage. That means it has perhaps one-third of its spaces available for such applicants. The issue is that when it posts its SAT ranges and other academic statistics, it does not differentiate between in-state and out of state students. The scores you see are overall scores, not sorted bu residence. So a student from a strong high school in a mid-Atlantic or northeastern state (where UVa is a popular choice) with, for example, a 1490 old-style SAT score, 3.8 tough-course GPA, and the usual good leadership and other ECs is not very likely to gain admission to UVa unless one or both parents attended the University, in which case the student gets in-state status. But looking at the available UVa SAT scores and GPAs ranges, a student at that level would look much more likely than is really the case, because the numbers look as though they are in the top quarter.</p>
<p>I suppose it is anecdotal or at least informal, but it does seem to be pretty widely acknowledged that the out of state students at UVa may have stronger numbers than the in-state students. Keep in mind too that it is also considered harder to get in to UVa from Nothern Virginia than from some of the more rural and lightly populated parts of the state. There is likely to be a considerable variation in academic quality of students--including the quality of the high school they attended and the level of preparation they had in secondary school. It is very difficult, especially for a non-URM nonathlete, out of state applicant to get in, but obviously not impossible. The issue for out of staters is, if you can get into Dartmouth or Williams you probably would not choose to pay OOS tuition at UVa. Yet if you are not going to get into a supserselective private school you are not that likely to get into UVa either, at least if you are from one of the states where UVa is a very popular choice. It is something of a catch-22.</p>
<p>UVa has a much higher OOS percentage than almost any other state university in the country. People in VA (particularly Northern Virginian suburbs of DC) are usually pretty upset at the number of students coming in from OOS and taking spots at a school which uses VA tax money. North Carolina mandates no higher than 18% of its spots will go to OOS students at UNC and other state schools. If you look at the percentage of OOS students for other state schools (and especially those in the California system) it is much lower than that of NC, although I am not sure of the mandate in some those states. 33% OOS is very high!!</p>
<p>The point was not to criticize the OOS undergrad percentage (which is quite high though not uniquely so for a state university). The point in question is degree of difficulty of admssion for out of staters, and the relative or perceived lack of transparency in the out of state admission process. </p>
<p>As a citizen of a highly taxed state and municipality I sympathize with taxpayers in Virginia, but I also think that part of what makes any state university great is the opportunity not just for in state residents to get a fine and affordable education but also the opportunity for people from different places and backgroudns to be educated together, which is presumably one of the goals of any institution that aspires to be of national or internatational rank. And of course out of state students at UVa pay pretty much what they would pay at a private school--or if it is less it is not enough less to make it a bargain (as well as contrinuting to the local and in-state economy through purchases and sales taxes).</p>
<p>I agree that UVA, and CWM, have a an exceptionally large number of OOS students. My theory; they need the money. The State has strangled its universities over the last decade, which included a tuition freeze for three or four years. UVA receives a ridiculously low percentage of its budget from the state, something under 10%. Please correct me if I'm wrong.</p>
<p>In fact, just recently UVA, CWM, and VT, in recognition of the low amount of money they receive from the state, were relieved of certain civil service-type burdens.</p>
<p>Jags:</p>
<p>
[quote]
OOS legacies are given instate admissions status - but are counted in the OOS pool. Are their SAT scores included with the non-legacy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are you sure of that? I know for a fact that it is true for UNC since my wife and I are both OOS alums and our son was able to take advantage of that when he applied several years ago. But, I have never heard that about UVA.</p>
<p>Yes, OOS legacies are considered in the in-state applicant pool. I've personally heard this from someone who works for the alumni association.</p>
<p>Virginia's OOS tuition is still cheaper than a lot of top privates. It's base OOS is around 26,000. Many top privates start at around 33,000,</p>
<p>or if it is less it is not enough less to make it a bargain</p>
<p>these days, the only bargins to be found are at state universities for in-staters. college is still a business ya know</p>
<p>A few facts to assist in the discussion:</p>
<p>From the CDS for the Class of 2009
(the official data for the Class of 2010 will be available within the next two weeks-the current data on the Class of 2010 found on the UVA website is preliminary and will be adjusted when the new CDS is released):</p>
<p>In-state Applications: 6444
In-state Acceptances: 3130
Acceptance Rate: 48.6%
Enrolled: 2140
Yield: 68.4%</p>
<p>Out-of-State Applications: 9213
Out-of-State Acceptances: 2768
Acceptance Rate: 30.0%
Enrolled: 972
Yield: 35.1%</p>
<p>Tuition & Fees for In-State: $7180
Tuition & Fees for Out-of-State: $24,100
(Note: For purposes of calculating the total cost of attending the University, Room & Board will be additional, but identical for each class of students)</p>
<p>% of UVA budget provided for by Virginia General Assembly: <8%
% of UVA budget provided for by Virginia General Assembly when calculations are made to include the UVA Medical School: <13%</p>
<p>Conclusions: 1. The difficulty of acceptance for a non-legacy OOS applicant is similar to the difficulty for acceptance to Cornell (but not as difficult as the other Ivies) and many of the top private colleges, eg, Northwestern, JHU, Vanderbilt, Emory, Tufts, etc. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Many top OOS students who apply to the Ivies and other top privates are using Virginia as a backup application. This inflates the number of applications and the average SAT of the ACCEPTED students (eg, the 1490 number now shown as the high end of the 25-75 range). </p></li>
<li><p>The applicant pool from outside the state is quite strong, but it is far from impossible to get in as nearly 3000 students got in for Fall, 2005 and likely a similar number were accepted for Fall, 2006. However, just as at other competitive schools with which UVA is frequently compared, the application process delivers many surprising (and disappointing) results and thus, it is no sure thing to get into UVA even if you are a very strong OOS applicant. </p></li>
<li><p>OOS students pay more than 3 times what their instate counterparts pay for tuition and fees. Given the comparatively small contribution of the state legislature (which is likely to go even lower and the replacement of this cash flow is the primary driver of the University's recently launched $3bn capital campaign), Virginia residents are getting a bargain. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>IMO, the University would greatly benefit qualitatively and financially by increasing the number of OOS students from the current 1/3 of the student body to 1/2 or more. The competition is on for the best and the brightest faculty and students and if UVA truly wants to be among the top 15 schools (a frequently heard goal), the school will not get there with such a high proportion of Virginia residents. The OOS applicants are stronger on average, they pay more to attend the University, and they arguably have the potential to stay in Virginia and help the state produce more economic growth in the future.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In-state Applications: 6444
In-state Acceptances: 3130
Acceptance Rate: 48.6%
Enrolled: 2140
Yield: 68.4%</p>
<p>Out-of-State Applications: 9213
Out-of-State Acceptances: 2768
Acceptance Rate: 30.0%
Enrolled: 972
Yield: 35.1%
IMO, the University would greatly benefit qualitatively and financially by increasing the number of OOS students from the current 1/3 of the student body to 1/2 or more. The competition is on for the best and the brightest faculty and students and if UVA truly wants to be among the top 15 schools (a frequently heard goal), the school will not get there with such a high proportion of Virginia residents. The OOS applicants are stronger on average, they pay more to attend the University, and they arguably have the potential to stay in Virginia and help the state produce more economic growth in the future.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I disagree that we should increase the percentage of OOSers, in fact I think we should cap it at 18% like the public universities of North Carolina. Since the UVa OOS students have such a lousy yield rate 972/2768= 33%, it would behoove UVA Admissions to start rejecting more OOSers if they can somehow figure out who would actually attend vs. just using UVA as a safety or backup.</p>
<p>What's the point of having a good public university if it doesn't serve the instate kids? UVa should just become another private school with no more funding coming from Commonwealth taxpayers.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What's the point of having a good public university if it doesn't serve the instate kids? UVa should just become another private school with no more funding coming from Commonwealth taxpayers.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's the point isn't it? Virginia revels in it status as a low tax state. It refuses to adequately support many of its public institutions. If the taxpayers aren't going to pay for it where is UVA going to get the money from?</p>
<p>That's the point isn't it? Virginia revels in it status as a low tax state. It refuses to adequately support many of its public institutions.</p>
<p>Yet somehow, Virginia is blessed with terrific state schools.</p>
<p>UVA
WM
JMU
VT
CNU</p>
<p>*Many top OOS students who apply to the Ivies and other top privates are using Virginia as a backup application. This inflates the number of applications and the average SAT of the ACCEPTED students (eg, the 1490 number now shown as the high end of the 25-75 range).
*</p>
<p>This is a very strong point I think. I don't think there are many OOS kids for whom UVA is their reach or number one school.</p>