So I love Dartmouth . . .

<p>HapaGirl,</p>

<p>We will take my DD to campus for freshman orientation / DOC trip in a couple of weeks. She spends her free hours on the internet evaluating all the things that she can do next year (“Look at this! I am so stoked!”). It is just as well she hasn’t learned who her roommate is, or nailed down her first-term classes. This will provide a few more things to speculate about in the coming days.</p>

<p>Your Dad and I are cut from the same cloth. We all have obligations like caring for the rest of the family, retirement, aging parents, etc. Those priorities are shaped by your Dad’s values. He obviously places a high value on providing you with the best opportunities possible. If you are still going through this heart-wrenching agony, then open communication is best. Ask him directly how paying for college fits with your parent’s other responsibilities, and don’t accept an “It’s all good” answer. Lay out your concerns, and let him (them) lay out yours, and it will be easier to find that common ground.</p>

<p>I dunno, hmom5 (#15). It seems to me kind of defeatist to throw in the towel without seeing what may happen. No question that paying the full boat is out of the question for her folks (as it was for mine too) but I ended up falling into a nice turn of financial aid events and stumbling upon a couple of scholarships that I could never have anticipated at the time I was beginning to fill out my college applications.</p>

<p>To dismiss the dream out of hand seems like overkill. For the $75 application fee, HapaGirl (OP) can at least potentially have an offer in hand to decide upon. I <em>do</em> agree with you that the comfort level of what she and her parents can afford needs to be decided and held to, which may mean rejecting some good school(s) once the offer letters come. But to generalize and say that there are no scholarships out there so don’t even bother trying seems like giving up before the race even starts…</p>

<p>Did I misinterpret your advice? Sorry if I did.</p>

<p>I know someone who got a $15K Pepsi scholarship, and the parents are both lawyers. Not lawyers making NYC partner salaries, but they are not hurting for funds. Do not dismiss the possibility of some of the larger scholarships, especially if you have strong community service.</p>

<p>Admittedly, these are likely to be no more than $5K-$15K, a nice chunk of change, but still leaving a large part of COA to pay.</p>

<p>If you are worried about how Berkeley is viewed on the east coast, don’t be. It has always been a very highly regarded school. UCLA also has a good rep, but Berkeley’s is far stronger. The rest of the UCs are not well known. (Before Californians start screaming, I’m simply talking about general prestige/name recognition, which as we all know can have little to do with reality.)</p>

<p>BTW, I wouldn’t be as sanguine about PhDs being free as many people suggest. It depends on the field, even at excellent schools. You may also find that there are teaching assistantships to help pay for the PhD–after you pay for the master’s, IF you are accepted into the PhD program.</p>

<p>Hapa,</p>

<p>I was in nearly the same situation a few months ago. I was admitted to a number of good colleges RD (Duke, UPenn, Princeton…) and WL at some others (Dart, Harvard, Amherst…). My parents made about 200k in income in 2008 because they were very lucky in their businesses, but they never planned to make that much money again. So, I was stuck with a 200k income on all my FA documents, and I ended up getting 0$ from all the prestigious RD schools that accepted me. I had ALOT to think about that month. My parents said they would try to pay for it, but I knew that it would be a huge burden on my family. I declined all of the colleges, after they refused my request for more aid, and chose to go to UF for free.</p>

<p>Well, a couple months later I was admitted to Dartmouth off the WL and it was like living that pain all over again. Dartmouth originally gave me no money, but, fortunately, I was able to get them to give me about 18k a year after I talked to the FA office. Now I’m happy to be going to Dartmouth next year even though it will still cost a small fortune.</p>

<p>I think scholarships can help, but they’re a double-edged sword. I won a few thousand dollars in scholarships, but they were the kind that requires the money go straight to the FA office. The FA office actually reduced my FA to compensate for the money I got from scholarships, so I ended up paying the same amount. I’ll probably be doing Army ROTC on a scholarship to help pay for Dmouth, but if you can rack up a significant amount of scholarship money it could really dent your personal burden.</p>

<p>Hapa, this is rediculous, I also am planning on applying to law school. Law schools do not care about the prestige of your undergraduate school, it is almost entirely a numbers game, the only time prestige matters is if your comparing like a school ranked 50-100 to a school in the top 25, they will give the top 25 a little boost, but still they would much rather have a kid with a 3.8-4.0 from the 50-100 then a 3.4 or 3.5 from the top 25, so if you are going to law school, I would say do not go to dartmouth you will regret it. Also, I do miss California, there is nothing like that Cali sunshine, especially compared to the frigid hell at Dartmouth, you will not enjoy that weather. I go home about once every 2-3 months. Thanksgiving, Christmas, spring break then maybe like one out of the ordinary break. However, Vanderbilt has a very long summer we get out in late April and go back end of August.</p>

<p>You have excellent excellent stats, and a very reasonable chance of being accepted wherever you want. I think you need to have two plans in mind at this point:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Apply to the best UC schools. I wish we lived in Cali so my kids could get a great education for relatively little.</p></li>
<li><p>Apply to Dartmouth (and wherever else you think you might be interested in), and apply for any and all scholarships you can find. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>At the end of the day, when all the acceptances are in, evaluate your options. </p>

<p>Making a decision without full knowledge is impossible.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Can you be more specific because this is the kind of thing that gives kids false hope. It’s not hard to use calculators and talk to schools to get a very good read on what you qualify for. If your parent’s income and assets say you won’t get aid, without a major change, you won’t.</p>

<p>Now a big scholarship could happen, but it does not for most affluent kids. So many do have to face these facts before applying. It’s not defeatist, it’s reality.</p>

<p>Dartmouth is very generous with aid…we had to pay 35k a year when I got accepted…but after appealing and doing some paper work, it has gone down to 22k.</p>

<p>Unless you live at home, UCB or UCLA cost won’t be 1/6 of Dartmouth, more like a little less than 1/2. And if it takes you more than 4 years to get through the UCs, then the numbers change. </p>

<p>I’m not saying that the cost differential doesn’t point to the UCs, but the figures you are using seem off.</p>

<p>Last year, my son had a similar choice between UCLA and Dartmouth. We live in Southern California and he always wanted to attend UCLA. It is where I went to college and he followed their men’s basketball program. After being admitted to both schools, he came to realize that the financial crisis in California would make it very difficult for him to graduate in 4 years and the cutbacks could adversely affect his undergraduate experience. That was last year, and sadly his concerns have now become reality. UCLA has decided to hire a small percentage of the professors they will need for '13 and class size will grow considerably. Costs to students will be increasing and the extra time it will take to graduate will ultimately make the student fees more costly. This is sad for my alma mater, but my son wisely chose Dartmouth and is about to enter his sophomore year. He had a great freshman year and has no regrets with his decision. As for law schools, look at the data from the top 10 law schools to see that Dartmouth places far more than does UCLA and considering that there are about 1,100 undergraduates graduating each year from Dartmouth compared to over 6,000 out of UCLA shows that there is a significant difference in admission rates to major law schools between these two fine institutions.</p>

<p>HapaGirl, </p>

<p>I don’t know if you are open to this option, but have you considered deferring for a year once you are accepted into a college? Some schools, including Dartmouth, allow students to do so. I know a few people who’ve done so in order to work and save up for a year, and others who simply do so in order to explore a bit before going back to school. Either way, I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who was unhappy after taking a gap year. </p>

<p>As a rising senior, I’m in the same position as you because money definitely factors into where I go to college. Though my parents say that they’ll do whatever they can, I don’t think I’d feel right about putting them into debt, especially in this economy. However, I’m still applying to the schools that I’m interested in, and I think you should, as well. You never know, everything could work out. Good luck!</p>

<p>When I called Dartmouth asking for more aid I mentioned that I would be willing to defer for a year, but they told me that they don’t do deferrals for FA reasons.</p>

<p>I am absolutely floored by the many people who took the time to give me advice. Your suggestions have given me a great deal to think about. I wish I could thank you individually. I wish everyone who is applying to college this year the very best of luck. For those parents with children in college, I wish both you and your student the very best. Thank you all again for your wisdom.</p>

<p>have your parents considered finding a lawyer and “selling” some of their property to trustworthy relatives, so that you’ll be able to get FA, and then “buying” the property back in a few years?</p>

<p>That sounds all sorts of illegal. It might be possible for tax fraud for such transactions especially when federal financial aid funds are involved. I don’t know the specifics as I am not a lawyer, but that sort of thing is dangerous. Best case scenario if caught is federally mandated reimbursement of funds, worst case is jail time.</p>

<p>the legality is questionable but a good lawyer should find a way to make it a legally defensible “gifting” of property. and of course, there are many many other ways to hide assets.</p>

<p>I hope no one would do this.</p>

<p>It would be stupid to try something like that. Lawyers are not magicians.</p>

<p>I was in the EXACT same situation. My parents had enough to not qualify for need-based aid at all, and I have two younger sisters who both need parental help with affording college.</p>

<p>At the beginning of the process, my parents sat me down and laid out the finances. They said that I could apply to Dartmouth if I wanted to (since that’s where I always wanted to go) but that they would pay x dollars regardless of where I went to school. If I chose to go to Dartmouth, I’d have to pay the difference between tuition and x. So, they made it my choice whether I thought the education was worth it.</p>

<p>I also applied to Rice and got an amazing merit-based scholarship there. Between that and my parents paying the x dollars, I have enough money saved up.</p>

<p>I was accepted to Dartmouth and literally cried in the shower for an hour after I got the online acceptance because I knew I’d have to turn down my dream school. I agonized over the decision for days but in my heart I knew my family just couldn’t afford to spend so much for just my college experience, when my siblings would be left with nothing.</p>

<p>So, my suggestions are:

  1. Don’t get too attached to any one school. I know there are tons of stories of people falling in love with schools but honestly–if finances are this much of a consideration, you can’t afford to narrow your options (no pun intended).
  2. apply for merit-based aid at schools like Emory, Rice, Vandy, Tulane, etc. At some schools there’s a separate application and at other schools you automatically get considered.
  3. consider this: you might have to make a choice based on money. Is that fair? Not always. Is it fair that the kid next door gets to go wherever he wants and you don’t? Of course not. But everything happens for a reason. People change in just a few months. Five months ago I couldn’t envision myself anywhere but Dartmouth. Now I know that Rice is the school for me. I’m leaving for Houston in less than a week and couldn’t be happier with my choice. If I hadn’t taken a chance and applied for financial aid at Rice I never would’ve gotten the opportunity to fall in love with the school.
  4. also consider this: I know personally that if I’d gone to Dartmouth, I’d feel guilty the ENTIRE time about the financial burden. Like if I got a C on a test I’d think I was wasting $$, if I wasn’t having a good experience or making friends right away I was wasting $$, etc. This kind of stress is not something that would make your experience the best possible one.</p>

<p>So in a nutshell–apply to a variety of schools and keep your options open (no early decision!) Then, once you see what happens and where you get in, you make a choice based on the information and resources you have at the time.</p>

<p>well… first, your not in yet, so you shouldn’t be worried yet.</p>

<p>but if you can go to a great school in california for cheap, why not do that? you can go to an ivy for graduate school.</p>