I’m appalled at some of the ethical slipperiness here. To be affronted when the office called on her for proof is sort of ridiculous when in fact she did lie. Some of the responses here sound like “I would never work at a place that figures out I have lied and calls me on it.” And to the recent posts that asserted that , well, there WAS a medical emergency–that’s not why the D missed the appointment. She called her mom AFTER she missed it.
Look, kids, and parents, make mistakes. But I’m with the poster above who says that more important is the D’s ethical development and maturity at this point–not pointing fingers at the people at the office for calling out her lie.
And yes, people tell white lies all the time. But that doesn’t make them defensible when called on them.
As others say, the job is gone. Focus on the lessons learned.
Garland, your post is encouraging in a thread that has been a bit mystifying to say the least.
Whether or not the daughter or Dad fess up (as I suggested) is far less important than your suggestion to “focus on lessons learned.” So your post is no doubt wiser than mine : ) Though I would still advise my kid to go talk to them and tell the truth.
I still cannot figure out why being 15 minutes late resulted in parental advice to lie about a family emergency. I do believe that if you do the “right thing,” things turn out much better in life- even if in the long rather than the short term.
I was working with a woman who couldn’t tell the truth. Impossible for her. Always had to have an excuse, an explanation, a lie instead of just doing her job. She had used ALL her leave. She was constantly 2-3 HOURS late for work. We were in the same section and our chief called a meeting for 9:30, which was 15 minutes after the latest time we were allowed to report to work. This woman strolls in about 10 and said she’d been at the office on time (video evidence showed otherwise) but she’d been in the nurse’s office because she had a brain fungus.
I couldn’t help it but laugh out loud. I guess she’d used all her excuses about her dogs escaping and water heater bursting and traffic. All that was left was brain fungus.
Was it a bad advice? You bet! Learning the lesson? Absolutely! Is lying ethical? You have to be kidding! But, beating yourself or your kid up over making a bad decision in panic mode, or making the matters worth by making her fess up would only serve one purpose - to punish her for “ethical slipperiness” (as if she was not already punished enough). Of course, your mileage may vary. And yes, as a manager, I choose to trust my people, and I would never work for an employer who does not trust me.
There is a difference between holding yourself to a higher ground, or feeling the urge to punish the others for making a mistake. I choose to trust my team, family and friends, and never bring them down, so that they still learn a lesson, but never feel the need to lie to me or to make excuses. It always worked. I’ve seen other managers or parents trying to do the same by reprimanding. I was not appalled by that, but it made me very sad and, more importantly, it never worked.
I never believe the vague “family emergency” excuse and I’m not surprised they don’t believe her either.
Next time, just tell the truth. “OMG I’m so sorry–I have the wrong time marked down in my calendar. Or maybe you do?”
This has actually happened to me, where I had 1:00 marked down instead of 10:00 or 11:00. It can easily happen if you use google calendar in your phone.
A tad bit of judgement going on here. I don’t think there was a poster who thought the initial lie was a good idea. But it happened. Sometimes life is complicated – To me, the main point is that navigating daily life in the moment is different than sitting back and reviewing, well after the fact.
Here is the much longer, nuanced post:
My college student misses an important appointment. Keep in mind - this interview may be more important to some than others. Some students NEED the free room and board, for example.)
Best that she would have called the interviewer's office asap and fessed up to having missed the appointment simply by accident. Instead, she calls a parent.
As parent acknowledges, parent makes mistake by advising kid to make an excuse instead of being honest. (Again, keep in mind that humans make mistakes AND keep in mind that some families NEED this position more than others.)
Interviewer demands documentation. Well-within his rights. Seems extreme to me and suggestive of something else going on. I am a university professor and confront this issue very often and only rarely have I asked for documentation (although I state on my syllabi that such documentation may be requested).
Now student must decide how to proceed: Options are: (1) Confess and hope for best. (I vote no - very little to gain; can learn from this mistake without the confession and even if you get the job, this is SO awkward. And I don't think that taking a step that is maximizing the potential downside to what was, initially, a simple momentary lapse in judgement - word could spread, etc.) (2) Don't confess but offer up a neutral response like the one i suggested earlier: Sorry no documentation and prefer not to provide further detail; just let me know how you want to proceed; (3) simply withdraw application - I vote no - kinda the same as the confession but more weanie-like. If you want to confess, confess directly.
*AND simultaneous to the follow up on the job, the student and the parent follow up - as in real life - discuss how both committed an OOPSIE…both regret it…use this as a way to make better decisions on the anxious fly in the future. AND figure out what went wrong to create the misunderstanding about the interview time in the first place.
Me, too. How is being in the nurse’s station a “family emergency”?
And so many chimed in with other ways to lie, what excuses can’t be challenged, how DARE anyone ask for documentation!, etc.
It’s making me consider those posters in a whole different light. And if they condone lying in these circumstances, in what other circumstances have they lied? (Or their children, since these parents are their role models.) A majority of kids in schools when questioned admit to having cheated in the past. Why are we surprised?
Re: the documentation issue, I have mixed feelings because it depends on what conversation occurred. I manage over 250 people. I’ve heard every variation of “family emergency” from those whose emergency ended with tragic results and those who can’t remember what the “family emergency” was when asked how they are doing 48 hours later. I have been offered documentation and I decline accepting it each and every time. I need to be able to trust my team and if they lie, that’s on them. My concern and compassion for them and their family have made many liars crack under the guilt and they have admitted their misrepresentation. I can’t forget what I know, especially when people go into detail, and so I have seen many in a different light.
If the documentation requested is medical, it raises medical privacy red flags and should not be requested without a caveat that you are not seeking to know what the person’s diagnosis is or what they are being treated for. This is why doctor’s note are so vague. “X was seen in the office of Dr. x on such date and can return to work/ school on such date.”
quote Don’t confess but offer up a neutral response like the one i suggested earlier: Sorry no documentation and prefer not to provide further detail; just let me know how you want to proceed.
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@profdad2021 – how would this one not lead to more lying if the interviewer presses just a bit more (e.g. asks “what really happened”)? I imagine OP D’s body language would be a giveaway unless she has nerves of steel. The OP would have to tell his D to be ready to quickly withdraw her application should her new bluff be called.
Instead of being “appalled” maybe some should read the thread.
Very few people here who replied condoned lying. The lie was already committed. You can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube. For those of you who are “appalled” at all the people who support lying I suggest you read the thread again this time with eyes open. You might have to come down off that high horse you are riding all also. The view from up there must be astonishing.
I’d also suggest keeping you assumptions and judgements to yourself because you don’t know much about the people you are judging or their kids although it is nothing new for this board to have to wade through that kind of sanctimonious holier than thouness. It is so easy having principles online. I’m so proud of you.
The vast majority of people on this board, and those who replied to this thread, didn’t condone the lying but also didn’t think the OP or his D needs to cowtow to an unreasonable request. Don’t let people push you around. Stand up for yourself. If they don’t want to interview her again fine but they do not need to validate anything either so like I said don’t lose sleep or feel bad just decline any sort of request for information since it was based on a lie and if you want to push back a little, my style, do it, if not, let it go.
The boarder point is how most people do not say something is wrong when it is wrong like my IRS EE example. Most people just sheep their way through the meeting all worried about what the IRS will do to them if they don’t comply with the silliest of rules and regs. The IRS would function better if people within and outside that organization pushed back more often but it is what it is. Sheep are easy to lead around. They walk right into the slaughter house.
Asking for documentation for missing an interview is a bit extreme. Unfortunately, many schools do now require documentation if you miss tests/finals for something like a death in the family. H often jokes that, even in these days of divorce and blended families leading to many sets of grandparent, it’s amazing how many grandparents a single student can have die while they’re in college. You hate to have to do it, but too many have taken advantage using this excuse when they just weren’t prepared to take a test. Airlines won’t give a bereavement fare without documentation for the same reason.
When I was a freshman in college the RA on one of the other floors blew out of town for the first weekend. Then the second and third weekends. “Family issues,” she claimed. She left every Friday night and returned on Sunday night after visiting the out-of-town boyfriend. She left all of her responsibilities to others and never planned any social events for her charges. She was fired at the end of the semester.
The early interviews are clearly trying to weed out the individuals seeking only free room and board versus those ready to accept the responsibilities of being a peer leader.
I don’t think asking for documentation is an unreasonable request. And I don’t think compounding the lie which many suggested is a good idea either. I think the OP’s kid has two choices. Withdraw her application or grovel. I’ve had remarkably good luck with apologies. I’ve missed more than a few appointments with clients over the past year. Usually because I somehow put them into the wrong week of my calendar. Or I forget to push save. Or I write the info on a piece of paper and then forget to find my computer or phone and enter it.
Gonote, judgment is apparently in the eye of the beholder, and I see some in your post : )
InigoMontoya, the documentation was not requested because the interview was missed, but because the student who missed the interview gave a family emergency as the reason. I think it is perfectly reasonable during the hiring of an RA to ask for documentation about the family emergency.
I personally feel compassion, not judgment, for the parent here, and my suggestion to fess up (for daughter and parent) were intended to help them heal and move forward, not to punish.
There are threads that appear on CC that surprise some of us old-timers and this is one of them. I won’t post again on this one but just want to say I think intentions are good in those posts that elaborate on the moral issues here.
I understand that. Which is why I pointed out that lying about family emergencies - even deaths - unfortunately is not unheard of on college campuses. So while I still am somewhat surprised it was asked for in this circumstance, there is enough precedent that it’s not shocking.
The resident advisor is supposed to be the person providing the advice to younger students, not someone who needs advice from her own parents on handling routine situations. Perhaps it’s best to withdraw from consideration this year.