So if I'm a doc...am i screwed financial-wise?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>Well up till now, I always thought that docs made 300k a year, and that if i was a doc i'd be fine doing whatever I want. But I just did some research, and I realize that they only make about 100k</p>

<p>Really, I dont want to be a doc for the money. But the problem is that when im older, I would like to work for free (in third world countries) at least 6 months a year, be able to come back the other 6 months and live a comfortable life, support my parents, and most importantly...pay off debt.</p>

<p>Is this possible? The college I want to go to costs almost 40k a year! So how long on average does it take to pay off debt? And would I be able to live a comfortable lifestyle?</p>

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<p>Your issue will be there are not many jobs for doctors who only want to work 6 months per year. Many doctors are employed by HMOs, who will want a year round commitment. Others are in private practice and can’t disappear on patients half the year. You could pick up some shifts in ERs, but in general, the plan would be tough to implement.</p>

<p>How much of the $40K are you planning to borrow? Would you then borrow for med school?</p>

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<p>You have to consider all the expenses many doctors have</p>

<p>1) mega malpractice insurance premiums</p>

<p>2) start up costs involved with starting a medical practice.</p>

<p>3) recurring office costs, salaries for office personnel, etc.</p>

<p>4) repayment of student loans for med school and perhaps undergrad as well.</p>

<p>It is VERY important to minimize undergrad student loans because you’ll have to borrow for med school (which is expensive!!!)</p>

<p>My son has opted to go to a flagship public with a huge merit scholarship to minimize undergrad costs.</p>

<p>What are your stats? Are there some less expensive options or merit scholarship options?</p>

<p>*The college I want to go to costs almost 40k a year! So how long on average does it take to pay off debt? And would I be able to live a comfortable lifestyle? *</p>

<p>If you borrow the max federal loans for med school plus some for undergrad…that amount is $224,000. Med school can cost more than $224k.</p>

<p>Loan Calculator</p>

<pre><code>Loan Balance: $224,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $224,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $0.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $2,577.80
Number of Payments: 120

Cumulative Payments: $309,335.90
Total Interest Paid: $85,335.90
</code></pre>

<p>Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $2,577.80 plus a final payment of $2,577.70.</p>

<p>**It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $309,336.00 to be able to afford to repay this loan. **</p>

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<p>^Yikes, that is a big number</p>

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<p>Loan calculators often output a very misleading “salary needed” figure. The monthly loan payment corresponds to about $31k a year. The loan calculator thinks that should only be X% of your salary if you’re going to live comfortably, even though the more important thing is the actual amount left over.</p>

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<p>There are plenty of opportunities for free medical service right in the community where you live. My cousin is an emergency surgeon who volunteers regularly in a clinic just a few miles from the hospital where she works.
You might find it interesting as a HS student now to go volunteer in a community medical clinic.</p>

7

<p>Student loan calculators assume that for long-term debt that is in ADDITION to all your expenses (rent, utilities, food, clothing, cars,insurance, etc,) your monthly student loan repayments shouldn’t be more than 10% of your monthly income…otherwise, repayment becomes very difficult. </p>

<p>Remember, the repayment period isn’t for a short-time, so it is very hard to “tighten one’s belt” and make big extra payments over a long time.</p>

<p>Also…newish doctors do not have a bunch of extra money, so paying the equivalent of 6 extra car payments every month for 10 LONG years is very difficult.</p>

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<p>I am afraid that you have little concept about the life and finances of a physician. First it is very expensive to go to college and medical school. This total debt can easily be more than $200,000 by the time you graduate and will likely grow in number as you complete the extra 3-5 years necessary to train in your specialty.
Physicians in private practice do not take a lot of time off with their practice as their overhead, which can be 50-60% of their gross continues if one is not working. In other words if you do not work you lose money. If you work 6 months you have just paid your overhead and have no profit. Some specialties such as ER have little overhead so time off is more easily arranged but at the loss of income. You can be an employee physician but most positions are full time. Almost anything however can be negotiated in these situations.
I think you also grossly underestimate the cost of living. This is especially true if you have a family with children.
The income side of your understanding of medical finances is also incorrect. Most surveys put annual income between 150,000 and 450,000 depending on what specialty.
This also heavily depends on how hard you work. It may however be 100,000 by the time you finish as our incomes have been going down if adjusted for inflation for about 20 years.</p>

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<p>Thanks for everyones responses!
Well my plan is to apply for direct medical programs, so its 44k a year for undergrad, and 30k a year for grad school. Undergrad is only 3 years, however.
Im planning on going into a field where I can work in different countries, because I really do want to get out there and experience culture, and see the really interesting cases that only show up in the poor areas. And of course, their thanks is worth SO much more than that of someone shelling out 10,000 bucks just cause i would hope to have made a major difference in their lives.
However, after thinking about it a bit, i realize that i probably should be flexible about it too, at least while i get myself out of debt. So would it work out better if I ended up workign for X years, paying off debt+making enough money to buy a house+retire my parents, then going off for another 10 or so years to enrich my experiences? What speciality should i pursue if i want to do this? (or what would be most convenient?). All I know is that I want something broad enough to not make me bored (and by no means will I be making a decision based on this, I will just possibly look into it further)
But what would X be?</p>

<p>@siliconvalleymom: I have worked at community hospitals, though not in the US. I have also worked at hospitals in the US. However, I do really appreciate the international third world experience so much more; the people need it a lot more than US citizens do. I personally wouldnt work for free in the US, unless under extreme cases.</p>

<p>My stats are very average by the way. I dont even know if I’ll get in, and there is close to no chance of scholarships.</p>

<p>And btw…i dont want to get married to anything other than medicine :). I WANT it to consume my life.</p>

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<p>But for such a large salary, 10% off wouldn’t necessarily require as much belt tightening. All I’m saying is that $300k - tax - $30k is still a lot more than $50k - tax - $5k. I think the loan calculator would be more accurate if it just had a certain net income.</p>

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<p>Not unless you’re board certified in EM, you can’t (or you go out to the boonies where they can’t find BC/BE EM docs).</p>

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<p>consider nursing. Or another medically related field. I am not aware of ANY physicians who were not high statted in college… there may be some who were not high statted in high school, but that doesn’t make much sense.</p>

<p>The physician I visited this past Friday went to a Jesuit high school in Kingston, Jamaica, then Yale, then Johns Hopkins for his MD, then UCLA for his residency, then UCSF for further training. He is a neurologist. All neurologists are academically brilliant. So are most doctors.</p>

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<p>The 30K/year for the last 4/7 years sounds low. If it is indeed the case, the total is 252K. If you parents can shell out approximately 50%, it would be a good investiment considering the 7 year guaranteed MD program. </p>

<p>Regarding the loan, we also need to consider a mortage of ~36K/yr + down payment unless you are going to stay in a apartment. And, don’t forget about a health insurance for your family and your parents may need more help (on their long term care) than you think.</p>

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<p>There is no job, none, that would enable you to:</p>

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<p>Your only option would be to be born a Gates or Buffett.</p>

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<p>If you are really interested in being a doctor for the truly undeserved look into some of the Rural health and Government based programs that can help finance you education (or even pay for it completely) in exchange for a service period after finishing your training. Work on the Native American reservation for 2-3 years or in a designated truly un-served Public Health Unit for xxx time to ‘pay’ for your education. </p>

<p>I’m not sure if any of the US or International Aid agencies have a program like this anymore, but I know they used to exist. Sort of like the Military service commitments, but for Social Aid. They finance your training and you pay them back with your time and expertise instead of your checkbook at the end.</p>

<p>There are a few ways I can think of to work for yourself/family and also do a good bit of free care though this is certainly not your typical Physician profile. If you are in a highly paid profession – surgery, Ophth, Anesthesia, or similar you could work Local Tenums or take temporary/transient contracted positions (3-6-12 month options) to earn money, then take a few months off b/w gigs to do Aid work (or Doctors without Borders, or Catholic Mission, or Peace Corps Medical staff), then repeat. </p>

<p>This would you to earn a decent living and feed your soul at the same time though you aren’t going to end up with an 8 figure Bank account and a $5M mansion – I suspect that’s not your think to begin with. It will take work and planning ahead, but I’ve known many MD;s take 3 month sabbaticals and go to Haiti or Africa or … every 4-5 years (it takes some understanding partners and a lot of planning, but it can be done). I’ve only known a couple who have tried something more aggressive like you laid out and none of them were in a standard job situation (by their choice).</p>

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<p>There are ways to do what you want.</p>

<p>Many practices now allow “part time” work. (In fact, some recent data suggests that most women docs only work part time). If you go academic or large group, you don’t pay malpractice - but you also just get a salary (ie neurosurgeons pay for pediatricians). Many if not the majority of HMOs and large practices now DO have part time jobs (or two people for one) for that very reason. But it also sounds like you want to do the 6 months in your “senior years” and that is even easier “to cut back” your practice.</p>

<p>As to debt. There are ways to get through both free. The easiest way is to go armed forces. The next way is to spend time practicing in “third world” places IN the US. Not exact quote, but I think it is almost year for year payback.</p>

<p>Wanting it to “consume your life”. Don’t say that on your interview. Most of us now don’t want that type of doc. The “Houses” of the field have the highest malpractice and suicide rate. You want a smart doc, but you also want one that you can relate to and talk to.</p>

<p>Finally you can take a job with “doctors without borders” and get paid for doing what you want to do. Don’t let the nay sayers get you down</p>

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<p>Oh my, I just re-read my 1st sentence and that didn’t go well at all and now I can’t edit (I haven’t figured why this forum won’t let you edit a post after it;s been up for more than a few minutes). </p>

<p>Somehow spell check changed underserved to undeserved – please read that with as it was intended instead of written. Talk about a single letter being somewhat important for the context.</p>