<p>thats also jacked up, i hate it when people are like 1/8th minority even though they are straight up white and jack up the system!</p>
<p>This one girl was like "my grandma is spaniard, so that means im hispanic" im like "YOUR FREAKIN EUROPEAN!! THATS NOT HISPANIC"</p>
<p>cherry - anytime a benefit held by a group is threatened to be taken away, people do not react well. Just ask any employee of a large company as they endure yet another benefit or pension cut. So human behavior is relatively consistent. </p>
<p>Whatever position one takes on MCRI, and irrespective of whether it passes (although it seems likely to), a healthy debate does have its benefits. A good debate should help others look to a post-MCRI world (again, irrespective of whether it will pass), and look at the root causes of our problems, and seek to find alternatives to AA to solving them (there can't just be one panacea to solving the problems, this makes no sense). And keep in mind that Michigan even with MCRI will still be a tremendously diverse place - with people from all sorts of national origins and races - it just won't have the representation it likes from certain groups.</p>
<p>U-M doesn't consider non-compliance an option. If this passes, it will comply. If there is an appeal, it may buy the university more time, but the U will not circumvent the law.</p>
<p>Michigan will continue to ask ethnic and gender information because some of that is REQUIRED for federal reporting. The University cannot stop asking. The MCRI sponsors know it, and claim that they want a program that will allow federal compliance with reporting. The University will have to find a way to hide that information from admissions review, which would probably mean something along the lines of imaging all apps and then blocking out those questions prior to any admissions reader seeing it. </p>
<p>
[quote]
"The goal is to get races to come together, interact, assimilate, etc." they say. But then why do we have a "Afro-American Lounge" in South Quad??? Isn't that kind of contradictory to the point? If you have all the blacks congregating together, doesn't that defeat the whole concept of diversity?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It would if they never left the lounges. But interaction happens a lot of places. Students who are in the minority (be that racial, gender, parenting status, etc) benefit from time spent with students in a similar situation. Time spent in a religiously-oriented club or a racially-centered lounge or similar thing can recharge student batteries and better equip them for all those times when they remain in the minority. Such things have also been shown to aid retention. It doesn't mean that no interaction is taking place.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong), that minorities (blacks and latinos) are graduating at a lower rate than majorities. Aren't we setting them up to fail by giving them a leg up in the admit-process then?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>They graduate at a lower rate on just about every campus, including those where no affirmative action is used. It is specious to say that they are transferring or failing BECAUSE of Affirmative Action. U-M's minority graduation rates lack behind those of white, but still exceed national averages. However, I completely agree with your post that where we really need the help is with K-12. </p>
<p>
[quote]
"Diversity"? A couple minority students from my school now attend Michigan with me. Kids that wear $60 Polo shirts and $150 North Face fleeces, drive brand new SUVs, etc.
[/quote]
So you only add diversity if you're poor? Or dress a certain way? I don't understand.</p>
<p>Not to get all high and mighty on anyone here, but I am one of those "Rochester, Troy, Bloomfield, etc." kids. No doubt that my high school was less diverse than say Troy High School, but I can think of a handful of minority students attending UMich from my school. One girl has a Mexican-American grandmother, father is the VP of a very large operation in Detroit, probably considers herself to be white, etc. Checks "hispanic" on application, now at UM on full-tuition scholarship.</p>
<p>Girl two very similar. Dad works at General Motors, has Native American grandmother. Offered full-tuition at Umich, but attending Hope College on full-ride. Planning on attending Umich med school - for free. Parents used her college money to buy her a brand new Pontiac G6 convertible at ~$30,000.</p>
<p>But still, why do simply average at best minority students deserve full tuition? Kids that are better off than I, have 1/4-1/8 minority blood are getting pretty much 50% off for college.</p>
<p>This is probably the exception rather than the rule, but it's ridiculous enough for me to be strongly considering voting yes on 2.</p>
<p>I agree that this doesn't seem fair, but lots of things aren't fair. It puzzles me that people show very little outrage over the other unfair things, but zero in on any "privilege" extended to people who are minorities.</p>
<p>They are admitted and offered scholarships because they are seen by colleges to be desirable. Just like athletes are desirable, or some kid who grew up in the middle of South Dakota is desirable, or legacies are desirable. They want them for what they perceive to be benefits to the college. Maybe they're wrong about those benefits, that's another discussion. But it's not all about helping kids who grew up disadvantaged</p>
<p>I honestly don't know how I'm going to vote. Part of me really dislikes AA because it gives an advantage to people based on something that was in no way their doing (i.e. their race). However, another part of me really loves the diversity seen here on campus. No two people are the same. If prop. 2 passes, a lot will change. In a way, diversity is what makes Michigan special. However, in the end, I know the admissions standards won't change no matter what happens (i.e. You won't get in if you can't make the grade), and I also know Michigan will find other ways to make the Ann Arbor campus a diverse place to be. They just won't be able to use race as a factor. They will still be able to use socioeconomic status, ec's, and other info provided by the applicant. I'm not too worried about Michigan. This school has a knack of bouncing back quickly and on its own. I just need to figure out how I personally feel about the AA.</p>
<p>I think a lot of people are just being deceived by the scare tactics. Not much is going to change if Prop 2 passes. Socioeconomic status will probably be a large factor, kids will still apply to U-M because it's a great school.</p>
<p>In terms of things at the university, "Minority Peer Advisor" (MPA) position will probably be renamed "Multicultural Peer Advisor," Women In Science and Engineering (WISE) will keep its name but admit a percentage of the very few men who will apply, etc. It's really not the end of the world, people.</p>
<p>I don't think WISE will be affected, but right now I am also undecided on 2. I think that there are people who deserve the chance to attend U-M and just didn't have the necessary tools to make it here. But on the other hand, I don't think that any person should be given an unfair advantage and I find it hard to say that one person deserves the chance to attend Michigan more than someone else.</p>
<p>If prop 2 passes, say good bye to socioeconomic status being a factor ;) because other losers will still be hating on the poor (which are in most cases, minorities). White people cant take it! they just gotta find another way to oppress the colored!</p>
<p>That's not true.
[quote]
Wouldn’t passage of this proposal mean the end of Affirmative Action?</p>
<p>No. Affirmative action (in terms of outreach programs to under-represented groups) would be permitted for such classifications as, for instance, “inner city schools” or “rural schools” or other measures of socio-economic disadvantage. What would be prohibited under the MCRI proposal is applying different standards to individuals or groups based on the intrinsic characteristics of race, sex, color, ethnicity or national origin.
[/quote]
Being at a socioeconomic disadvantage isn't being taken away, rather, race is.</p>
<p>i said...it will cause it to happen, which would mean EVENTUALLY! plus, i dont really care about AA in michigan anyways, i just like to play the advocate. But i still think white people are all jacked up!</p>
<p>Just so you know, most people who are in poverty in the United States are white, not minorities.</p>
<p>in case you didnt know, i was stereotyping.</p>
<p>That's true matthew, if you're speaking in raw numbers, but what about the proportion of impovershed minorites? I don't know the numbers off hand, but I'm willing to be that proportionally speaking, there are more minorities living in poverty.</p>
<p>The evidence from California suggest there could be rather big changes. I hope there won't be.</p>
<p>I'm not sure how I will vote. I came to Michigan, in large part, because of diversity. I came from one of the poorest and most white areas of the country and was looking forward to interacting with the rest of the world. One of my best friends is from South America, I belong to a group that consists of nearly all African-Americans, and I have a Muslim teacher. My blood has already turned blue and will remain that way for all of my days.</p>
<p>However, I was offended by the email sent out by the UM President telling me how to vote. The contrarian in me makes me want to vote for the ban because of this blatant abuse of power... then, my rational side steps in and says that would be silly. I would like to see a letter from some UM Professor or Adminstrator telling the other side of the story.</p>
<p>There are two sides to this issue and it seems a shame that, generally, people won't discuss the issue in a rational and logical way. I believe UM should adopt a tradition similar to Oxford University. UM would sponsor a debate with a knowledgeable advocate from each side and the students favoring the ban would leave the room from one door and the students against the ban would leave the room from another door. This would enlightening, educational, civilized and even fun! And, it would help me and others become more informed voters.</p>
<p>LOL, U of M sent out an e-mail telling you guys how to vote? lol</p>
<p>anhydrosis, you should never base your vote on revenge or hate; it should be strictly what you think! and we know damn well that AA is off da hook! lol</p>
<p>Although I love the University of Michigan very much, I do not think they <em>want</em> you to listen to both sides in this particular case. The people they bring in to talk about it are the predominant group opposing Prop 2.</p>
<p>would this effect the class of 08?</p>