So It... Doesn't... Matter Where I Go for Undergrad?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>I agree with both counts. I only provided the Wash U list because I had it and (I think) it does provide a good look at what caliber a top school is looking for (then one has to be a top student at UG too). The other two told us they had a list and didn’t interview applicants from students not on that list (or similar words - that’s exact for one of the two). I assume the lists will be similar accounting for location differences or alumni differences, etc. When looking at potential undergrad schools we always asked where recent students had been accepted into med school to see if they met my criteria of not burning bridges. I have no idea what he’s going to do/choose for his future, but I want his options to be open - and a decent education of course.</p>

<p>Just in case anyone cares… we do/did let our kids choose whether to homeschool or not for high school (they were in school for elementary). It took this guy less than 5 seconds to say, “absolutely not!” He’s still on the high school Chess Team (Top Board for the past two years - once his brother graduated and went to college). He still has quite a bit of peer interaction and has had college level community college classes for the past two years (not pre-reqs). We let him out of his room once in a while. :wink: </p>

<p>I’ve often said that in my next life we’ll check school districts out far more carefully when we choose where to live. I naively thought they were all more or less the same when we moved here. My youngest, currently a sophomore in our local school can even see the difference. Visiting colleges has been great for motivating him and showing him there are “other” worlds of schooling out there. He’s not the least bit interested in medicine - well - I guess it’s sort of related. He plans to major in Botany with specialization in Ethnobotany, but he wants the “plant” side not the medicine side as foremost. </p>

<p>I’m not relying on our guidance department for that either.</p>

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<p>Those two were a couple of the rare ones I hadn’t heard of that were on the list. We never got curious enough to investigate them though.</p>

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<p>Oh, I know the schools. Harding in Arkansas, too. :wink: Just having some trouble placing them in the class photo.</p>

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<p>so not going to tell us the 2 schools that said this? between me and nadaba (I’ve seen his posts on SDN, so not stalking haha), I think we have interviewed at a good majority of the top 15 schools, and we go to no name schools. I’m not saying undergrad name doesn’t matter (I think it does help some. I was usually the only one from a no name school at my interviews), but it isn’t necessary to get into a top school.</p>

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<p>Ok, I’m bored tonight, so I looked up the incoming Freshman stats of Drury (29), GA (29), and Harding (28). They are 3 - 5 ACT points ahead of what I’m considering a no-name college for their top 25 percentile mark. I could see them having decent candidates if even just a couple a year. I compared them to two local “favorites” (24) and (25)</p>

<p>It kind of confirms my thoughts that we’re not defining “no-name” the same way. I may not have heard of these due to our location, but their upper stats still beat most colleges out there, so they are attracting some “better” students - enough to raise that top 25% 4 - 5 ACT points and be considered decent enough for interviews academically.</p>

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<p>Re: Mizzou’s showing at WashU–</p>

<p>Beats me, I found that kind of surprising myself. However, I do know that out of my premed friends last year (30?) very few (5?) even applied to Wash U (worth mentioning I’m unsure many more than 5 had Wash U-caliber stats). On the other hand, all of them applied to Mizzou, and half my class is comprised of Mizzou undergrads (of that, appx half of them were part of a pre-admission/BS-MD thing which no longer exists). The attitudes of the schools are quite different, and their med programs are quite different too. Wouldn’t surprise me if Mizzou undergrads chose to stick to Mizzou med because the unique curriculum at the med school pops up every so often in premed classes (ie, lectures/labs/projects in undergrad are structured like they are in med school) and because the attitudes of the undergrad and med schools are similar (and enjoyable, in my opinion). </p>

<p>Re: Drury–</p>

<p>Small LAC (1500 students?) in western MO. There’s a nice contingency of Drury students represented in my class and the class above me–very bright kids who seem to have had a fantastic time in undergrad.</p>

<p>And bigreddawgie, haven’t you noticed that it’s strikingly rare for someone to actually name a school here (even you are vague!)? But who cares, that’s your prerogative. Not surprised at all it hasn’t been mentioned.</p>

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<p>I don’t know if its ‘ties’, or just likes/preferences. I have seen one acceptances list from a top 30 college that sends a kid or two to Hopkins Med nearly every year, but only 1 to a certain med in New Haven in the past 15 years. The Hop obviously ‘likes’ something about that school that Yale does not.</p>

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<p>Yeah, the only reason I mentioned Pitt was because they were central to my idea that there’s a point of view difference AND I’m still rather peeved at their policy, esp since they weren’t up front with it before kiddo applied (and he asked if there were special requirements for homeschoolers before we even looked at them). The application was free, but he could have saved himself a bunch of time - not to mention the expense of the visit trip.</p>

<p>I’ve alerted fellow homeschoolers online on a busier homeschooling forum (by posting the form letter they sent), so hopefully others like us can save themselves the time and effort. Nice school for the right students, but behind the times when it comes to academic homeschoolers. (They did still admit my guy quickly - with merit aid - it’s just the “extra” they now want that we can’t provide and won’t pay any organization extra for since it did diddly for his actual education.)</p>

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<p>Well, I understand why they hasnt been mentioned yet. OP keeps mentioning these 2 schools and how they dont interview people on their list (which I doubt is true). This could easily be proven false. I’m just curious haha (PM me the schools creekland!)</p>

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<p>I’m not quite sure how you could prove it false considering it was unlikely you were in the group sessions we were in this past year, but…</p>

<p>No, I’m not going to pm you or anyone else the schools. Why? 'Cause kiddo is still waiting on some acceptances (undergrad, yes, but perhaps connected :wink: ) and I’d rather not have any info linking us to anything that might be connected. Paranoid, perhaps, but such is life. One never knows who is lurking. If you really want to know, there are 14 other top 15 med schools out there (probably more with different definitions of “top” but I’m using USNWR research schools). Start attending their pre-med days with their undergrad colleges and ask the question (or listen to see if others ask as was our situation).</p>

<p>This list: They’re still on there.</p>

<p>[Best</a> Medical Schools | Research Rankings | Top Medical Schools for Research | US News Best Graduate Schools](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings)</p>

<p>I’ll make it a little easier. I restricted my guy to east of the Mississippi for his college choices. Visiting WUSTL was an exception for us, but I threatened to make him swim across the river. (We enjoyed the visit, so it was worth it. Nice little trip.) There’s one other school he applied to that’s west of the Mississippi, but we didn’t get a chance to visit and will only do so if a visit is warranted later.</p>

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<p>It doesn’t really matter I guess. My personal conclusion is that it’s not necessary to go to a top school to get into a top school, but it helps.</p>

<p>However, I personally know people from two Cal State campuses (Long Beach and Fullerton) who have gotten interviews to Harvard, Penn, Hopkins, WashU, Duke, Stanford, UCSF, UMich, UCLA, Pitt, UCSD, and Vandy. </p>

<p>That leaves Yale, Columbia, and Pritzker to round out the top 15 (UWash doesn’t really count with the huge in-state bias!). A quick look at MDapps shows that these schools also interview students from a wide variety of undergrad schools, with a clear bias to elite schools (unsurprising).</p>

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<p>Ok. I understand. I just dont want other students to think that med schools only interview people from a set list of schools. Maybe they might have a list for automatic interview invites (which for sure is true for at least 1 school).</p>

<p>p.s. based on med schools east of Mississippi, I don’t think those 2 schools will only interview people on their list.</p>

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<p>Well, if medical schools don’t care, why should I work harder at a top university when I can just transfer to some no-name university and make a 4.0?</p>

<p>I go to a top 20 university, and I know for a fact that my school is much more difficult than a school such as UT San Antonio (I did dual enrollment there–got a 4.0 easily). If medical schools will look at a UTSA applicant at the same level as me, then maybe I should consider transferring. I’d rather get a 4.0 at UTSA (sleeping through classes) than going to Emory to get a 3.6 (working my butt off) if it doesn’t matter…</p>

<p>…You’re kidding right? We seriously get no advantage? This is not fair.</p>

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I don’t think anyone said this.</p>

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<p>BaylorMed, Granted, in terms of difficulty, Emory > UT Austin > Other UTs (except for some honor programs which “buy” more qualified students :)) But you never know what a medical school looks for at a given college. The academic merit is likely only 50% of the criteria. I know a case where a student from UT El Paso, which may not be superior to UT San Antonia (in terms of their academic rigor) that you referred to, beat many students from UT Austin in the application cycle. You never know whether a given student has other credential in addition to his/her stats and school’s name.</p>

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<p>Well the trick is to be an excellent student, isn’t it? </p>

<p>“Excellent” means great GPA and MCAT scores to start with–and on top of that, meaningful service work, sophisticated research opportunities, dedication to clinical activities/patient interaction/shadowing, some leadership/campus involvement experience, and a clear passion for something outside of medicine. Hit each of those areas strongly–and be able to prove it to adcoms based on your application and essays–and you’ll almost certainly get in somewhere.</p>

<p>Where does a top school come in? That’s where some students really thrive. They love the competition, the resources available, the ability to have a small program really tailored to their goals. Maybe they like having small class sizes. Maybe they like having professors who are at the top of their field. Maybe they like having a fantastic advising department to rely on. There are probably a million other reasons. And I highly doubt having a nice academic pedigree ala the one you’d get from going to a top-20 would be damaging.</p>

<p>But it’s also possible to find all that stuff at no-name schools like UT El Paso or UTSA or any other state school in the middle of wherever. The trick there is that students have to be a lot more independent and proactive because the environment isn’t always as conducive to success in the same way it tends to be at smaller, more competitive, top schools. The trade off, of course, is that the environment is totally different–and some students really thrive there. Maybe they like bigger classes, a more laid-back environment, the freedom to do whatever the heck they want (because there’s not as many people watching over them and ensuring they succeed), the football team, whatever. What they lack in pedigree they probably make up in another area.</p>

<p>So, why go to a top school? Because you think you’ll be a great student there, and the trick to winning admission to medical school is to be a great student. Going to a top school isn’t going to make up for a big deficiency on your application (read: low GPA, lack of extracurriculars), but who knows, it might give you a nudge in the right direction or otherwise work in your favor.</p>

<p>Why go to a no-name school when you could go to a top school? Perhaps because you think you’ll succeed regardless of where you go. Or pedigree’s not that important to you. Or you like the weather at the no-name school better. Or you want to save some money (maybe you have a lot of siblings?).</p>

<p>So much more goes into choosing a college, and a med school for that matter, than simply how high a school ranks on some arbitrary list. Realizing that and believing it will make your life (and your decisions) so much easier!</p>

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<p>*Well, if medical schools don’t care, why should I work harder at a top university when I can just transfer to some no-name university and make a 4.0?</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>It depends on what you consider “no name”. You mention UTSA…but do you consider mid-tiers as “no name”. </p>

<p>I don’t know about UTSA, but I know that my son couldn’t sleep thru his classes. I think you’re underestimating these classes.</p>

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<p>^^Agree w/ mom2 </p>

<p>D1 at USNWR #181 never got to sleep thru her classes and had to work her @$$ off in her major classes.</p>

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<p>“Well, if medical schools don’t care, why should I work harder at a top university when I can just transfer to some no-name university and make a 4.0?”</p>

<p>-Huge misunderstanding. You will have to work your b— off at no-name university to get your 4.0. The same will be true for any valedictorians from private prep HS’s (as an example) who decided to go to no-name university (for Merit awards as one reason). Guarantee that many of these very top caliber students with HS’s 4.0 and high SAT/ACT will not even make it. Many will fall off the pre-med track, choose something else instead after very first semester (if the program is constracted correctly and weed out class is in a first semester as it was in D’s state school). Very very few of these top caliber students pre-meds will have college GPA=4.0 at no-name university. You must be completely in dark.</p>

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<p>I think some people don’t understand that at so-called no-name schools, EVERYONE is not taking Gen Chem, Orgo, etc. Only the students in the more serious majors are. So, your classmates aren’t stupid and the instruction isn’t lame…as your post implies.</p>