So I've Done a Little Soul Searching

College Search & Selection
1

<p>So I'm sure some of you saw my earlier posts about how I did bad on the SAT. Even though I still am dissappointed with how I performed, I had a talk with someone from my school, and he really made me think.</p>

<p>Do you believe that today, there is too much propaganda from all sorts of media that you have to go to X, to get to Y? I know that part of this is probably denial from my subconcious because I'm never going to get into an Ivy League school, but seriously, what do you think about that?</p>

<p>I've seen a lot of CCers that are, like me, buying into this paradigm and don't consider anything besides prestige. Do you think its a problem? If so, what can we do to stop it because its a shame to see a few bright people I know getting medical problems from all the stress from the competition nowadays.</p>

2

<p>Absolutely... The kids from my school who are going to those schools are not necessarily better students or better people in general (actually one of them cheats off me all the time).
And even though I probalby had a really good chance at getting into at least one of those schools why would I subject myself to people who have a mental block of what will make them successful and ignore their own talents from with-in.
That is why I did not apply to a single ivy. ...and the idea that I have recieved over $200,000 in scholarships from other institutions really didn't hurt either... but seriously why would I pay over $30,000 a year, when I can get just as good an education from an institution paying me to attend. </p>

<p>Maybe it is just me...</p>

3

<p>you're right in that aspect. But you know, 99% CCers are not as noble as you. They only say that cause they can't get in ivy league.</p>

4

<p>You can get a great education wherever you go.</p>

<p>I've worked with many many smart, ambitious people who did NOT go anywhere prestigious.</p>

5

<p>and also i'd like to point out that good students will be good no matter where they go, even a crappy state school. So for self-motivated, aspiring students, don't worry that much about "ivy league." However, someone like myself, who is fairly bright but needs constant pressure from teachers and courses to maintain the high academic performance, a competitive school might be a good choice. I actually thrived in the ultra asian competitve environment. I totally slacked off here in a small oklahoma school.</p>

6

<p>I posted this somewhere else, but I'll say it once more.</p>

<p>I put myself through school, at a SUNY college. I was the first one of my sisters to graduate college, and the first in my mom's family (her parents were Russian immigrants, she never went to college - my dad went on the GI Bill.) I paid for everything myself.</p>

<p>A few years after college, I found myself working at a very prestigious NYC investment bank, as a researcher and analyst. I had started as a temp secretary there, while pursuing music, but was promoted OVER a prep school educated Harvard grad who couldn't spell, did terrible work, and was a complete smarmy ass. He ended up getting the boot. My boss, a Sr VP, saw that I was smart and had ability and drive. I ended up sharing a great corner office, got a wonderful yearly bonus, and saved enough money to put a down payment on a nice house in the country for my husband and I.</p>

<p>I was probably the only one there that was a SUNY grad. The only other people there who hadn't had everything handed to them were from minority backgrounds, and were smart, hard-working scholarship students at good schools. They ended up being my best friends, since they respected that I also had come from humble beginnings and worked my way up.</p>

<p>Don't worry and compare yourself to others regarding your school choice. Find a school you can afford that works for you, where you like the atmosphere, where the profs and advisers are supportive and smart, and where you feel like you belong. You will thrive and build confidence in yourself, and when you enter the job market or go on to grad school, people will notice.</p>

<p>P.s. the Harvard guy couldn't spell worth a lick, routinely shirked on work that he dumped on me and was universally disliked. No one cared about his hotshot degree in the end. I'm sure he was a legacy anyway, since he was a chronic underachiever.</p>

7

<p>Well prestigious schools are prestigious for a reason. Hence the reason why most people would like to attend an Ivy League, Oxbridge, and other top-25 universities.</p>

<p>Of course, you can be great and successful going to a less well-known university. But the more famous and prestigious universities have more of their graduates being more 'successful' (whatever that means). And that is the definition of prestige, no?</p>

8

<p>study a bit more and retake during summer or something</p>

<p>rationalising won't help you too much</p>

9

<p>While I am very much of the mind that the prestige factor is grossly overvalued by most people, two factors about the most selective schools make them unique. First, one is more likely to find a larger number of intellectual peers. Smart kids of every stripe attend most schools, but I think it's fair to say that the intensity and commonality of the scholarly "vibe" is correlated to some extent with a certain critical mass and is more likely to be felt at some schools than others.</p>

<p>Second, the range of courses supported by student interest in certain fields of study tends to be much greater at the more selective schools because of the students they enroll. Advanced study in more esoteric subjects is only available at certain schools. While this consideration doesn't apply to most majors or to most students, it can be very important to those with fairly specialized interests.</p>

10

<p>Don't listen to lostincode. There are many universities that will want you as you are. If YOU want to retake your SAT and do better, that's cool. But don't push yourself just so you can get into 'X' university. I felt that way about Princeton but I'm not going to sell my soul to study for the SATs.</p>

11

<p>map:</p>

<p>I think you're right. Basically, I've had children who hated being in non-honors/AP/IB classes because the prevailing attitude among students in those classes was that school was a pain. If you're the kind of kid to whom school is a candy store, you're not going to want to go to school with the other kind of kid.</p>

<p>But just because you don't want to do that doesn't mean you can't, and it doesn't mean that you'll forego a decent education by being one of the only ones in your classes who cares about learning.</p>

12

<p>murkywater:</p>

<p>Perhaps selling just part of your soul is necessary to do well on the SAT. =p</p>

13

<p>It's a fact that people who could have gone to Ivy League schools but chose not to do just as well as people who actually went there. </p>

<p>I think it's important to realize that what makes a successful individual is not the piece of paper you receive when you're 21 and does not determine your success.</p>

14

<p>Is it a fact that people who could not have gone to Ive League schools do just as well as people who actually went there?</p>

<p>hmmmm.</p>

15

<p>Honestly its a great thought to think that anyone can do just as well anywhere, but personally I have seen my friends who went to top schools vs. lesser schools (equal students in high school) do much better. The truth is that the Ivies (and similar) offer:</p>

<p>1) The opportunity to be surrounded by an incredibly bright peer group which in my opinion helps as these people will become your advisors more than your parents even.</p>

<p>2) The instant name recognition. ALL the Ivies have this, and in educated circles that matter it gives you instant credibility which you otherwise would have to work towards.</p>

<p>3) The opportunities: Top firms take Ivy students (regardless of major) by the scores, even with a 4.0 from X state school you wouldn't get the exposure to these places. </p>

<p>4) The network: Sure there are lots of very successful people without Ivy degrees, but there are no other communities with such a high saturation of successful alumni. </p>

<p>Add all these factors together plus others explain the benefits of going to an Ivy.</p>

16

<p>lostincode:</p>

<p>Newfoundgirlie is correct, but it's important to remember that this sort of research is looking in the rearview mirror at how well people who graduated years ago did financially. All it really means is that very, very bright, very hardworking people tend to be successful, even if they don't go to the most selective schools. That's not surprising.</p>

17

<p>There are people like Moon who can start out as temps and work into an investment bank, but I'd much rather put my odds on formal recruiting. Moon, you said the Harvard guy was basically a joke and a jerk. But the fact that he got the job shows the power of the degree. I greatly respect people from lesser schools who have gone on to incredible success, but I would not discount the extra push the top schools give.</p>

18

<p>Bottom line: Go to an Ivy if you can get in and can afford it, and work your butt off to take advantage of what's available. But if you can't go Ivy, go to the best school you can get into and afford and work your butt off.</p>

<p>And when you get your first job, work your butt off too.</p>

<p>I'm 58 and I'm starting to slack off now . . .</p>

19

<p>Smart, driven people with a good personality will succeed anywhere they go. But there is no doubt that going to a prestigous school will make your life a whole lot easier.</p>

20

<p>The other fallacy here is the idea that if you go to a less prestigious school, you will not be as challenged or have the opportunity to take great classes and that many of your classmates will not be interested in school. There are many schools that have very interesting classes and terrific students and great teachers. These schools may have students with a bit lower GPA or test scores, but the students still are interested in learning and want to succeed. Just as you don't need to attend an Ivy to get be successful, you don't need to attend an Ivy to get a great education. Widen your circle a bit and you will find many excellent schools out there. People who focus purely on the Ivy League schools are really limiting themselves and their possibilities.</p>