Again its not in a vacuum. Prior to the pandemic they were underpaid compared to what??
Maybe @Igloo could send you a pm with at least the state so you could see if a connection might work.
CC Networking could be awesome. It’s for more than meeting other parents at colleges!
If folks are working full time and still need subsidies for the basics (food, rent, basic health care), then they are underpaid IMO.
But then it goes back to the age old question - what do we want our tax dollars going toward? Subsidies for rent/food? Health care? Salaries?
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@Creekland : Yes! If a business cannot afford to pay their employees a minimum subsistence wage, then I should NOT be required to make up the difference with my tax dollars. It’s the cost of doing business. Minimum wage was originally different from entry level wages for youth (15-24 I think), and was defined as just that–the minimum required to cover your own very modest expenses. Employers don’t balk at paying a price that covers the expenses required to produce the goods they need, but they think taxpayers should help them pay for the labor they need.
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The point is simple. If you are looking to set the minimum wage at some point that allows someone to support themselves without subsidies, you need to determine what family level (if any beyond the individual) that contemplates. Income needed to self support is much different for one individual than it is for two individuals living together than it is for one or two adults raising one or more kids. What level do we peg? And if its a federal minimum wage, what area of the country does the wage need to support in terms of being self supporting?
[quote]I imagine it should be “per person” to keep them above the poverty line if working full time.[/quote] This answers my question. Though many people believe the minimum should allow for the support of children as well.
Different companies have different levels of profitability and diferent profit margins. Some companies could raise salaries across the board 5, 10 or 15% and still make a profit. But vast majority cannot. Should those that can, do so? Just because they can?
About 60% of restaurants fail in first year and 80% within 5 years. Increasing wages to self supporting wages likely won’t help those numbers. But maybe those are the types of businesses that shouldn’t stay in business?
Historically it happened as a way of getting around wage/price controls related to World War II. Workers wanted it to increase their pay. Be careful what you wish for I guess.
So should minimums be set at the income cutoffs for ACA subsidies?
Real inflation is coming. All this free money being tossed out is certainly going to push that more. It’s already showing it head in many products.
Minimum wage can rise but inflation will quickly remove any real benefit. You know what helps, moving beyond a minimum wage position. The minimum wage is just that, minimum pay for minimum skill/output. Something is wrong if an adult is trying to raise a family or live comfortably on a minimum wage. Good luck doing that anywhere.
Who here would tell their kids to strive for a minimum wage job or to stop there? People are capable of more. Minimum wage should be a starting point, not a lifestyle. I started out working a minimum wage job out of high school. I moved on.
People can do better. Perhaps the pandemic has shown some that. That’s a good thing. If employees are willing to work for a wage, so be it. If they’re not then I guess employers will have to pay more. The government shouldn’t be offering incentives to not work though. That helps no one in the end. If the government wants to help them offer job training as opposed to extra “free money”.
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These are the reasons we have heard from folks in the industry.
Add to that…for those working in high end restaurants ($200 and up for two people to eat)…restaurant workers we know who worked in those restaurants all say the same thing…that kind of expensive fine dining will be the last to come back. And these folks made great money. The ones we know have found employment outside of the hospitality industry.
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Well said. Minimum wage should be for a high school kid with no skills/ experience looking for a summer job.
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How are restaurant waiters paid in the EU, specifically France? Most waiters consider it a profession, not a starting job, and the service was excellent. When we visited, I noted how meals in Paris were less expensive than in Seattle. (This was at a time that the exchange rate was not incredibly different). No tax. We were specifically told that tips not encouraged – Bills should be rounded up, but not 20% added to the top.
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And yet, there are nowhere near enough family wage jobs in the US for all the adults. Even if everyone was motivated and skilled enough to move out of a poverty level wage job, it would not be possible.
Maybe we should stop using “minimum wage” and start using “Poverty wage” or “taxpayer subsidized wage”. If a person makes $7.50 an hour, they are not included in that 2% of the population that makes only minimum wage. 28 states have a minimum wage at or below $10/hr.
Remember, the wage sticks with the position, not the person. So all the folks who argue against increasing the minimum wage because it would disinventivize (is that a word?) people from finding a better job, do not seem to realize that whether an entry level/unskilled laborer moves up wage-wise, what they are advocating is that the taxpayers perpetually subsidize the cashier position at McDonald’s, or WalMart and every other position that pays poverty wages.
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The federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour has not changed since 2009. Increasing it would raise the earnings and family income of most low-wage workers, lifting some families out of poverty—but it would cause other low-wage workers to become jobless, and their family income would fall.
This interactive tool allows users to explore the effects of policies that would increase the federal minimum wage, including a policy based on the Raise the Wage Act of 2021 (S. 53), which CBO analyzed in The Budgetary Effects of the Raise the Wage Act of 2021. Users can also create custom policy options to examine how different approaches to changing the minimum wage would affect earnings, employment, family income, and poverty.
Good summary of pros and cons of raising minimum wage.
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Minimum wage jobs are generally entry level jobs. They are mainly geared towards those starting out in the work world. My teenager worked a minimum wage job last year. He did that to earn money and gain work experience. I would not advocate for him to continue in that minimum wage job or to try to support a family on it. The government shouldn’t subsidize his wage he earned. He could certainly, and will, use that job experience as a stepping stone to better jobs.
There are plenty of jobs in this country. So many jobs are here that workers are coming in from other countries and filllng them. Many of these jobs are not minimum wage jobs. Many of these workers earn very good money, of course they put in hard work to earn that money. The reality is not all jobs are “worth” the same pay. Many have added skills or labor that is necessary and should be compensated for. Some jobs will always pay less while others pay more. The idea should be to gravitate towards higher paying jobs while opening up lower paying jobs for new workers. If enough workers aren’t interested in a job then wages can rise to accommodate but if the government is paying workers not to work it sabotages that whole system. And, here we are.
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We do need to get back to having an entry level wage, which historically was distinct from minimum wage, for youth. I bet most people would agree with that idea.
But, there are not plenty of jobs that pay enough for all adults, even those over 24, to be self sufficient. High school kids can’t fill the daytime cashier, or any other retail job, in the US. As long as that is true, taxpayers are going to be subsidizing businesses by picking up part of the living expenses for their poverty wage positions.
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I live in a small town but it is definitely a problem in my area lately. It seems to be tied to the increased unemployment benefits because I have never seen so many businesses begging for workers on this scale. I don’t think fear of covid is a reason in my area considering that people are still out and about and many only wear a mask where it is required(some not even then). I don’t think it is childcare either because our schools have been in person all year and daycare facilities have been open for months.
A slight increase in minimum wage might be warranted but I think $15/hour is extreme. What about all of those currently making $15 or a little more that worked their way up to that amount or that went to school and invested time and money into education or training to get something better than minimum wage. I started a new job last summer after taking a few years to be a SAHM and after a raise am still making less than $15/hour as a real estate underwriter with a college degree. Why should a high school kid at McDonald’s make as much or more than someone with an education and experience? Myself or my parents can barely afford to eat out occasionally or go on a small trip now, if wages are doubled and those industries have to double their prices most people aren’t going to be able to afford it.
Many local eating places are having to reduce hours because they can’t get workers, but it isn’t only those places, even manufacturing plants that pay a lot more are having trouble finding workers. If they do manage to hire someone they often don’t last more than a day or two.
I’m not sure what the answers are, but I hope some are discovered before the economy collapses.
As far as the push for more education, that is great but there are plenty of college educated people already working at jobs that don’t require an education or offer pay commensurate with it. How are all of those jobs going to be filled by high school kids when they are at school during the day, should they only be open when kids are available to work? There is a shortage of workers in many of the trades and that will grow as many of the older ones retire. There seems to be a mismatch between the jobs available and the people available to work.
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Such mismatch may be in part because many “good” jobs require a significant amount of education and training (which does not necessarily mean a college degree), and there is an increasing expectation among employers that employees come educated and trained at their own expense (in both time and money). Someone working in a low pay job may not be able to afford the time off not being paid or the monetary cost of education and training to upgrade to a better job. Perhaps the extended unemployment benefits during COVID-19 allowed some people to do this, hence enabling them to become qualified for jobs that they like better than their previous ones.
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Good summary of where things are in various industries.
The American jobs machine tottered last month, confounding optimistic forecasts of the labor market’s recovery and sharpening debates over the impact of federal pandemic-related jobless benefits on the nation’s work force.
The largest job gains in April were in leisure and hospitality, two industries that had been particularly hard-hit during the pandemic. More dining out may mean less dining in, though. So as the number of restaurant workers rose, the number of grocery store clerks and couriers declined.
Former food service workers and others may also be migrating to warehousing jobs with wages as high as $23 an hour and to customer service jobs that are done from home, said Amy Glaser, senior vice president at the staffing firm Adecco.
A few insights from the article.
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“The legislation signed today pauses evictions for tenants who declare under penalty of perjury an inability to pay all or part of the rent due to a COVID-related reason. Tenants are still responsible for paying unpaid amounts to property owners, but those unpaid amounts cannot be the basis for an eviction, even after the moratorium ends.”
The quote pertains to the California eviction moratorium. Renters who have difficulties paying rent due to COVID, cannot be evicted. I think this has been extended through June. And if the unpaid amounts cannot be the basis for an eviction, basically this is free rent through the period of the moratorium.
If you get free money and don’t have to pay rent, why work?
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Don’t you have to pay it eventually? I thought it was postponed, not forgiven. Do I have that wrong?
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They do in theory but they still can’t be evicted for non payment so in reality they don’t.
My dad owns a couple of rental houses and does not expect to receive any of the rent he was owed for many months.