so now reality is setting in.

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hi, All.
I'm the father of a rising senior. He's always done excellent in school and we've always taught him to set his sights high.
Now he's in the application process for a good engineering school. Here are his choices, US News rank and estimated cost.</p>

<p>MIT (#1) $50K,
Univ of Michigan-Ann Arbor (#4) $44K,
Univ of Wisconsin-Madison (#14) $22K,
Univ of Minnesota-Twin Cities (#23) $21K</p>

<p>His apps have been submitted, so now its a matter of wait and see.
They are all fine schools IMO, but if accepted by MIT or Mich
he will want to
pursue it.<br>
I'm hoping he would like to attend U of Minn because it close to home and cheaper.</p>

<p>Is it too early to start worrying?
Is anyone else facing this dilemma?</p>

<p>jasper</p>

2

<p>I'm assuming you're in-state for UMinn. </p>

<p>If your S has an application that will make him competitive for MIT and UMich OOS, AND he would be happy attending UMinn or UWisc, then there doesn't seem to be too much to worry about admissions-wise. Also, since (I assume) he applied EA to MIT, and since all of the other schools are rolling, he still has time in Dec. to apply to more schools if the need arises.</p>

<p>Money, is another question. MIT in general gives good FA, but that assumes that you qualify for FA. UMich would likely not give very good FA to an OOS student, but they do have merit scholarships that could bridge the gap.</p>

<p>Since he's done the hard work already (most kids are just starting to think about applications), you should be very relieved at having such a responsible child!</p>

3

<p>He may get good merit money at RPI which has an excellent engineering program.</p>

4

<p>If he has the stats to be considered a strong candidate at MIT, then he should apply to USC too [ Vertibi school of Engineering]. If he is a NMF he gets 1/2 off tuition and the most impressive Hi Stat students are considered for a Full tuition Trustees scholarship. [But be sure he applies by Dec 1, which is the deadline for scholarship consideration]</p>

5

<p>I'm going to read between the lines in your post - what I hear is that 50K X 4 = 200K and this is something that you can not afford and/or would be a crippling amount of debt for you and your son to take on.</p>

<p>It is okay, even after the applications have been sent, to sit down with your son and have a frank discussion that goes something like this. "I am so proud of all the work you've done in high school and convinced that many colleges will be happy to accept you. But, I've taken another look at our family's finances as well as the tuition rates for several of the schools you have sent applications into and decide that MIT and several other of the privates are far too expensive for our family to afford. Let's take a closer look at the in-state schools and make this work..."</p>

<p>Many families can with difficultly cough up the money (PLUS loans, equity, raiding retirement funds, stopping contributions to retirement funds, etc) - but the reality is that 200K is something that is a financial risk. It is better to look at this issue NOW and make a decision before the acceptance letters start rolling in (and everyone's emotions on overdrive). Work the numbers out with your son and come up with a financial plan that if the FA isn't there in the acceptance letter/offer - that it will have to be turned down.</p>

<p>And while you won't hear this advice much on CC, many families choose state schools and/or community college then transfer as a way to drastically reduce costs.</p>

<p>Good luck,</p>

<p>Annika</p>

6

<p>entomom: yea, we're in Minn. Thanks for the info.
marite: thanks for the suggestion. Have to look into RPI.
annika: yes, you read me right. I don't want my family taking on major debt. Thanks for the suggestion.
menloparkmom: I'm not up on all the acronyms, what's NMF?</p>

<p>thanks again.
jasper</p>

7

<p>Wisconsin may be a good alternative==cheaper, yet away from home. I hear that UW is a fun place to be. One of D's friends graduated with an engineering degree from UW and he had no problems finding a suitable job in his field.</p>

8

<p>NMF=National Merit Finalist</p>

9

<p>jasper, im in the same boat as your son. My parents sat me down and told me I could attend an expensive private school, but I would be the one paying the loans back. Although it killed me, I knew a great public school would get me just as good of an education.</p>

<p>Also, undergrad really isn't that important. Have him go to public school for four years and attend a private for graduate school.</p>

10

<p>Be realistic about your finances. Figure out what you are comfortable paying for college, sit your son down, and let him know what you're willing to pay each year, and that he would be responsible for taking out loans and paying the difference between that and what his college costs.</p>

<p>Most students in this country have financial restrictions on what colleges they are able to attend. Better to let our son know now -- when it would be easiest for him to choose to fall in love with a college that's realistic financially -- than to spring this on him after he gains acceptance to an expensive school that you're unwilling to totally pay for that has become his dream school.</p>

<p>It's amazing how willing most students are to adjust their dreams when they learn about the financial parameters early on during the application process.</p>

11

<p>ellemenope: yea, I feel Wisconsin would be a good choice as well since we pay in-state tuition there.
Nrdsb4: thanks.
phishfan0969: thanks for the encouragement. He does want to pursue a masters so that seems like sound advice.</p>

<p>jasper</p>

12

<p>Northstarmom: you made some good points. thanks.</p>

<p>jasper</p>

13

<p>Jasper, I don't know your financial situation, but if you qualify for need-based aid, MIT can be most generous. They do guarantee to meet need, and I believe they have a no-loans initiative below certain incomes. The $50,000 sticker price is only for full-pay students.</p>

<p>If your son has MIT-level stats, we found that the most generous school for merit aid was Case Western in Cleveland. Their Trustee Scholarship this year was $27,500, taken off a $48,000 tab. If he should get the Trustee, the cost would be about the same as full pay at the publics.</p>

14

<p>Rice U also has very good financial aid and an increasing number of merit scholarships. It has strong engineering programs.</p>

15

<p>FYI,
The state schools on your S's list were on my older S's list. Mich was his first choice, Minn. (his safety, too) his second choice, Wisconsin was his third choice. He did this knowing that unless he got great merit aid or was willing to take out loans, Mich. would not be affordable.</p>

<p>He got major merit aid into Minn., nothing from Mich., and some merit aid from Wisconsin, and happily went off to Minn.</p>

16

<p>jasper, We are in a similar situation, and I feel the pain. Our income is too high for FA, but not high enough to easily afford paying $200,000 without putting ourselves into serious debt or a future financial bind. </p>

<p>Although we've encouraged D to apply elsewhere, she does this knowing that unless those schools come up with some serious money for her, it's not a wise financial decision for her or us. She should receive a merit award from one of our state schools that will make her COA about $10,000/year. She could receive a similar award from a couple of other state schools, but she's not interested in those schools. It's a rare thing to use the words college costs and bargain in the same sentence, but for her she will receive a fine education at a bargain price. </p>

<p>At times I feel guilty because we should have saved more; we're not letting her follow a dream; she worked hard enough to get into a more prestigious school and can't go, all of those things and more. </p>

<p>I have to remind myself that we've provided her with wonderful opportunities, have been good parents, and provided her with a good life. It's up to her to make her college education what she wants it to be. It might not be as easy at the state school, but I know it's possible.</p>

17

<p>Wait just a minute. I don't understand the phrase "His apps have been submitted". (Meanwhile I think S2 has decided to start to think about his common app essay next week).</p>

18

<p>If he's submitted the apps already, he should spend time applying for as many outside scholarships as he can.</p>

19

<p>Jasper - The schools your S had chosen so far seem to only have one common factor, the Ranking of US News. He has chosen one relatively small school, MIT, and three large schools. Perhaps you have used other criteria such as his anticipated major and his desire for a larger student population.</p>

<p>I would suggest that you spend more time researching the various schools, visiting some and taking to your S to visit the campuses to see what he prefers.</p>

<p>My grandfather graduated from MIT in '21 and my D was at first drawn to MIT for that reason. We talked and it became clear that she preferred a smaller school like MIT. Her goal is to obtain a PhD and teach at a major research university.</p>

<p>We spent half a year researching engineering schools considering academics as well as the undergraduate experience. While she was accepted to all of her top 20 engineering schools except Stanford, she became enamored with the residential college system at Rice, the low s/f ratio of 5:1, the strong academic qualifications of its engineering students and the quirky, creative nature of the students. She can always go to MIT for graduate school, but for her, the undergraduate experience at Rice seems like a better fit (plus Rice does give generous merit scholarships).</p>

<p>Also, please note that the US News rankings rely heavily on peer rankings of the undergraduate program. I have spoken with colleagues as well as family members who have responded to the survey and they have no idea what the undergraduate experience is like at many of the top 40 engineering schools, so take the rankings with a grain of salt. One of my colleagues became a Dept head at the U of Minn after spending 12+ years at Case. After his first year he has concluded that Case offered a better overall undergraduate and graduate education in his field of specialty...something he was hired by Minn to strengthen.</p>

<p>If your S would prefer more individualized attention, he could consider schools such as Harvey Mudd, Bucknell, Rice, Case Western, Northwestern, RPI (poor m/f ratio), Stevens, Olin, Duke, Columbia, Johns Hopkins, etc. If he prefers larger schools then he might also consider Ohio State, Penn State, UVA, VA Tech, U of Texas, Cornell, etc. I list Cornell with the larger schools since our research has found that advising is rather impersonal.</p>

<p>My suggestion is to pay less attention to the rankings and more attention to what type of school your S is more likely to perform well in his studies.</p>

<p>Good luck!!</p>

20

<p>it is too early to worry about $$. Your son will get a lot of Merit Scholarships. Why not consider solid engineering schools that give the most Merits. One of them is definately Case Western, which is know for engineering and for giving a lot of Merit $$$. My D's tuition was lowered there about $5,000 / year because of what Case gave her in Merit scholarships, we do not qualify for need based. She has chosen to go to another school, where we are paying about $6,500 TOTAL (about 1/2 of her private HS tuition), which means that tuition is covered 100% and some R&B is also covered by Merit $$. She did not apply to any schools that we knew she did not have a chance to get Merit scholarships.</p>