<p>Continue settling into reality. The real world doesn't rate schools 1,2, 3, .....1000 as USNews does. In the plainest of terms a college is an investment in student's future. Spend 40k to earn 50k yr; spend 80k to earn ? yr. Just to throw out easy examples. Knowing a school is intended to improve a students' quality of life, one asks how much debt is appropriate? A student earning 50k yr, but paying 10k yr in loans would be just as well off earning 40k yr and having no debt.</p>
<p>I've known a young couple, house buyers that bought in a house that was all they could afford- if all went perfectly, and they remained on a tight budget for the first 15 yrs or so. They were so happy that their first house was such a grand house in a great neighborhood. They bought yrs ago, long before mtge meltdown. However, hubby's OT got reduced, they soon found they couldn't afford a nicer car, going out on the town, and dinners out, and felt they should postpone a pregnancy. That house may have been a sound investment looking only at the homes cost/worth, but it considerably reduced the quality of their life for years.
Aiming high(imo) doesn't mean attending a school rated high by US News. Success isn't getting into a famous college. That is only helping to prepare one for success. The real target is the level of success the student achieves in life, as the student defines success. IMO the biggest name school isn't the only route to success, and sometimes isn't the best route. Unless money is no object, I urge you to consider other schools that might be a better value.</p>
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it is too early to worry about $$. Your son will get a lot of Merit Scholarships.
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<p>I absolutely disagree with the first statement, so much that I think it completely asinine. It is NEVER to early to worry about money, and I think parents should talk to their students before applications are made. I think students should reach for whatever schools they want, but know that, if money is an issue, it's an issue and they will need to take financial aid into consideration.</p>
<p>And I'm curious, MaimiDAP, what makes you state emphatically that the OP's son will get "lots of merit scholarships." Do you have inside information into the finaid offices at each of the schools the OP's son has applied to?</p>
<p>owlice, I had the same question...but didn't have time to post this am. The OP doesn't give us stats for his son, so how do we know he is going to get a lot of merit scholarship?<br>
Even if the OP's son has stellar stats, merit scholarships should never, IMHO, be a given or expectation. Student should apply to a RANGE of schools academically and financially and then weigh all options when acceptances/financial aid/rejections come in.</p>
<p>U Michigan gives out quite a lot of merit money to out of state students. You may be pleasantly surprised there. Also it's very nice that they send their acceptance and merit offer pretty early in the process so your son may have a very nice option in hand by winter break.</p>
<p>If he is applying to MIT, then he is probably technical and perhaps interested in engineering. He should give Rice and Vanderbilt a very good look. Both have very good engineering programs and both give a great deal of merit aid to highly qualified applicants.</p>
<p>Finally, the 50k figure is daunting but we are finding out with our first one heading to a private school this year that it's more like $35-40k with assorted outside scholarships (small but they do add up) and summer earnings. Also, her college factors in spending money and travel which we had always just assumed were in addition to the quoted cost. So all in all, the total bill has been substantially lower than we anticipated. Horribly expensive, of course. But not quite as horrible as we expected.</p>
<p>"U Michigan gives out quite a lot of merit money to out of state students. You may be pleasantly surprised there. Also it's very nice that they send their acceptance and merit offer pretty early in the process so your son may have a very nice option in hand by winter break."</p>
<p>One caveat: Some of the merit aid at U Mich. says that it's is merit only. However, our experience was that Mich. lies. Older S was sent by one of Mich.'s merit scholarship staffers a FAFSA or similar financial aid application. We knew that he would not qualify for financial aid, and S asked Mich. whether he still could be considered for the scholarship even if he didn't need aid. On the website, the scholarship was listed as merit only.</p>
<p>The Mich. staffer replied that S still could be considered, but S didn't get the scholarship. When S called Mich. to say that they were his first choice, but he needed merit aid to attend, and he also asked about why he didn't get the merit scholarship, they told him that was because he didn't have financial need!</p>
<p>That was when S decided he'd be happy -- delighted, thrilled, in fact -- to go to his second choice college, Minnesota. He went there, and although Mich. had been his first choice for years, he never looked back.</p>
<p>^ Northstarmom - I hope you gave Michigan a bit of feedback. This past year when D1 applied, their scholarship information differentiated between ones that required financial need and those that did not. It was pretty well documented. Bet that wasn't the case when your son applied.</p>
<p>When S applied, the scholarship list on Michigan's site also did what you describe. It's just that the info wasn't true. There was at least one scholarship that was described on-line as being merit based that really was merit and need-based.</p>
<p>When Mich. sent S a survey asking why he turned it down with S's permission (He didn't want to be bothered to fill out the form), I filled out the info and included detailed information about his experience with the scholarship.</p>
<p>In addition, after he was accepted, S wanted to fly up to visit Michigan by himself at our expense. He tried to make arrangements to stay on campus, but Mich. said that wasn't possible, and he'd have to stay in a hotel. S had skipped, so was only 17. Michigan said that they could do nothing to help him, so he didn't go.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, when S asked Minn. for help with a similar visit that literally was at the last minute, they went out of their way to be helpful. They met him at the airport (something that we didn't request), and also placed him with students with whom he had things in common. </p>
<p>Also, S had had some problems getting his Mich. app (This was back in the days when most people submitted paper apps), and it was virtually impossible to get through the automated operators to get someone who could help him. </p>
<p>I hold a warm spot in my heart for U Minn. It is a big university, but our experience was that it went way out of its way to respond to students as individuals.</p>
<p>Getting back on topic, another perspective:
Who is currently the best NFL player? Tom Brady? Peyton Manning? randy Moss? Adrian Peterson? Being a Colts fan I'll use them as examples. No doubt Manning is football smart and sure can throw a pass, but is he better than Freeney? I don't think Manning could rush the passer nearly as well. Freeney better than Addai? I don't think Freeney a better ball carrier than Addai.
Clearly, I could make a list of the best NFL players. With enough advertising, I might sell a lot of books on it. That doesn't mean I am the last definitive word, and certainly doesn't mean the rest of the U.S. needs to agree- or even care.</p>
<p>I think USNews is a great place to start, gives much helpful advice on costs, and stats, but I think its value ends there. Please give much thought to a school that might cost over 200k, add more if there are some loans with interest and estimate how much more the student expects to earn from attending there that he could not have earned attending elsewhere. Don't spend 200k to get 10k or 15k more a yr than a school that only cost 80k(my examples).</p>
<p>I researched UMich pretty thoroughly last year, as it was high on D's list, and came away with the conclusion that UMich gives very little merit aid to OOS. Perhaps it's different for a student with Ivy-level stats like yours, mammal; perhaps it's also different for high stats combined with need, as northstarmom suggests. But for an above 30 but below 34/35 ACT student, I don't think there is anything at all.</p>
<p>I think for students with MIT-caliber stats Michigan can be generous with OOS $$. An absolutely scary-smart girl from my sons school[s] received a full ride offer from Michigan, but in the end decided to go to MIT.</p>
<p>^Menloparkmom may be referring to the Shipman Scholars Program, which offers about fifty of U of M's top applicants each year the opportunity to win one of fifteen full-ride scholarships based on an interview. All fifty are guaranteed a significant scholarship, proportional to the amount they have to pay, depending on IS or OOS status. Applicants to all schools at U of M, including engineering, are automatically considered for the scholarship with the submission of their application. </p>
<p>The College of Engineering also offers significant OOS scholarships.</p>
<p>^ The Shipman is a marvelous scholarship - D1 has a friend who won it but ended up full freight at Yale. D1 did not make finalist for the Shipman but was offered $20k per yr.</p>
<p>I think Northstarmom is hitting on a very interesting issue. Although our D did well with merit scholarships, there were a few where she didn't make it to first base and when reading the profiles of kids who did, it seemed as if she should have (of course that's the protective Mama Bear in me). Her GC tells me that there are - as Northstarmom has described - merit scholarships out there that you won't win unless you're checking the financial need box and submitting the documentation. I won't name names. Just good to understand that. There are arguments here on CC over whether or not checking financial need helps your chances at so-called need blind schools. I think it is just as questionable if NOT checking need hurts your chances for some very high profile merit scholarships.</p>
<p>And finally, I have several colleagues who were educated at U Minnesota who are just outstanding in their profession and personal lives. Can't go wrong with that one.</p>
<p>Your dilemma is faced by about 75% of the folks on CC. With a senior, it is definitely not too early to start worrying- better yet, thinking and working- on financial aid. You will need to file the FAFSA and/or CSS Profile early next year, and there may be some strategies you can still implement, but junior year is when to think about that, as your income and assets in 2008 are what will count. Have you used any of the online calculators or estimators? Your expected contribution will likely follow these, althogh schools can differ, especially private schools.</p>
<p>Yous son may have always done excellently, and although you should not discourage applying due to cost only, you should also be realistic with him about what your family can afford- up front, beofre he gets fixated on his dream school and actually gets accepted. Common sense says apply to financial safeties as well as admissions safeties. It also says substantial student loan debt is a bad idea. There are a munber of very enlightening thread on CC on that important issue.</p>
<p>No one can count on merit aid. While he may have done very well, it is extremely competitive. Figure he should be in the top3-5% of the applicant pool at a school to have a real chance at merit aid. Even then, the results between schools can be wildly inconsistent. My own son even got one scholarship which then was discontinued after an NCAA rules interpretation. GOne in a puff of smoke! SO you must do a lot of careful research, but aid is out there. But don't count on anything; he missed out on another which I thought was nearly a sure thing.</p>
<p>Your dilemma is faced by about 75% of the folks on CC. With a senior, it is definitely not too early to start worrying- better yet, thinking and working- on financial aid. You will need to file the FAFSA and/or CSS Profile early next year, and there may be some strategies you can still implement, but junior year is when to think about that, as your income and assets in 2008 are what will count. Have you used any of the online calculators or estimators? Your expected contribution will likely follow these, althogh schools can differ, especially private schools.</p>
<p>Yous son may have always done excellently, and although you should not discourage applying due to cost only, you should also be realistic with him about what your family can afford- up front, beofre he gets fixated on his dream school and actually gets accepted. Common sense says apply to financial safeties as well as admissions safeties. It also says substantial student loan debt is a bad idea. There are a munber of very enlightening thread on CC on that important issue.</p>
<p>No one can count on merit aid. While he may have done very well, it is extremely competitive. Figure he should be in the top3-5% of the applicant pool at a school to have a real chance at merit aid. Even then, the results between schools can be wildly inconsistent. My own son even got one scholarship which then was discontinued after an NCAA rules interpretation. GOne in a puff of smoke! SO you must do a lot of careful research, but aid is out there. But don't count on anything; he missed out on another which I thought was nearly a sure thing.</p>
<p>Those sound like good choices for someone from the upper midwest. Of course he should see what the financial aid looks like for MIT, and then get into an honors program at one of the other three if need be. I'm partial to UW. Having great grades and test scores is not a shoe in for MIT because of a surplus of excellent students vying for a position in a smaller class. There are a lot of students who cross the MN-WI border because of reciprocity, of those two he'll have to decide which campus he likes better.</p>
<p>Glad to hear that UMich doesn't offer a ton of merit to OOS ... since their instate merit opportunities are subpar! Many of D's friends with great stats were shut out or received just a token one time award. It's a different story for certain areas of need (like nursing), but overall ... I haven't been impressed.</p>
<p>RPI is a good place to check out. As for the fact that there are many more males than females ... there's always Russell Sage down the street! As one of the few females who went to another engineering school in the late 70s, I can say that the few who attend are ... well ... the cream of the crop! :)</p>